Beyond 6:30 in static apnea

[SEDATE]

Sounds like you were SEDATEd rofl Sorry, could not resist the obvious and lame pun...I'll shut up now...

Yeah...But seriously, sounds like rest is a good idea (it is anyway).

High co2 could explain the headache, but the "now waking up" sounds a bit scary.

Thnx ..Jome rofl

 

[tylerz]

i manage to hold nearly 6:00 it was 5:50(new PB)
Close the end of hold... i felt i never wake up...i was really very deep sleep
is it normal? No Samba/No Bo..
From now on...i ll give my body relax 3-4 days..
i think my immuno sytem went down..
i fell myself very tired.. i also have headache

Hey great job Sedate! Must be exciting!? I found I had best results when metabolism was lower at rest, such as early morning or just before bed. Feeling like you are asleep during a static is common, not necessarily at the end if you are really focused on trying to push a bit more. What was the end of your static like, say for the last 30secs?

I have to reemphasize NUTRITION and certainly rest. Take a break from statics and research the body and how it functions. It is easy to get so excited that we find ourselves comfortable doing regular statics, however that has to be complemented with ensuring the appropriate nutrients are be supplied and maintained to the body. I have been reading some stuff recently that suggests how easily one can induce a state where delerium and permanent brain damage can occur without the appropriate nutrition. This is with regard to any form of exercise (physical exertion).

I intend to gather a clear and concise log of these findings to share, but I don't have it as such at the moment, so please look into it yourself. The simplest form of recommendation, from what I have gathered so far, would be to ensure you have a standard daily intake of nutrients such as the link below, complimented with increases in nutrients that act as anti-oxidants, and before performing statics a high carbohydrate diet, the night before or three to five hours before.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/etext/000105.html

I am beginning to sense from my findings that resting above what is considered normal, is not necessary, albeit safer and more practical for most people due to what I suggest next. Over a rest period we have a much higher chance of recovering the requirements of nutrition, even if we are not purposefully intending to. This is because we tend to not repeat eating the same thing each day and the nutrients can be found in many foods, just not in concentrated proportion. Therefore over a few days of rest you will get the nutrition but achieved by eating much more to get the balanced amount. We could have gone each day without resting if we stayed on top of our nutrition in a strict and knowledgeable manner. This is supported by the idea that some of the atheletes have not been resting in between. Still researching...

Cheers

 

[laminar]

Over a rest period we have a much higher chance of recovering the requirements of nutrition, even if we are not purposefully intending to. This is because we tend to not repeat eating the same thing each day and the nutrients can be found in many foods, just not in concentrated proportion. Therefore over a few days of rest you will get the nutrition but achieved by eating much more to get the balanced amount. We could have gone each day without resting if we stayed on top of our nutrition in a strict and knowledgeable manner. This is supported by the idea that some of the atheletes have not been resting in between. Still researching...

Hi Tyler,

Neat idea! Seems like a simple and obvious one (one that I hadn't considered before), but it seems right to me especially after having tried out certain "workout" nutrition approaches and still feeling run down until I take a rest period. Then, big surprise, my physiology seems to have caught up with the stresses being placed on it earlier and a new performance level is achieved.

This begs the question whether some of this apnea training is too intense for our assumed nutrition and rest requirements. How "intense" is apnea training really in all its variations, both in terms of the exercise reps themselves and the session over a period of time (say a week)?

Tom Sietas does max reps most days, but getting there required a complex balance of nutrition, rest, and intensity that was not too much at each stage, but just enough.

I think many have experienced the burn out after getting excited with fast progress in apnea. I certainly have. Then the body seems to fall apart, mentally and physically. I find this especially challenging while working at a regular job, when schedules make for apnea sessions during traditional meal times, meaning that you gain even less nutrition and at non-optimal times of the day for your training. No wonder I've experienced that kind of burnout frequently.

So Sedate, rest is good. I once rested for 6 months and came back to apnea with a very healthy static time.

Pete

 

[DeepThought]

and before performing statics a high carbohydrate diet, the night before or three to five hours before.

Hi Tyler, except having it to work, why is that? and what kind of carbohydrates?

 

[Bill]

Great static Sedate. Congratulations. This is probably how you progress. A small change and/or a short break after you seem to be 'stuck' at a certain time. One of the very best told me that this was the way it happened for him when he made his last PB.
You also posted a few days ago about not feeling well and cancelling the training. This often will work but another way is to train anyway and make it an easy day. Your body will get used to the ups and downs and will help if competition day you don't feel 100%.
Aloha
Bill

 

[SEDATE]

. What was the end of your static like, say for the last 30secs?

Tyler
the last 30 sec..i start feeling soft pain and constaraction in my belly only forced 30 sec while holding breath i created a film in mybrain...a gate(door) in dark and i passed from the gate and start hanging on around like a silly when i felt strong constraction in my bely i said time has come to return to the gate..This idea came to my brain while listening ''the screen behind the mirror album-Enigma''. music was on.. but i was in deep and peaceful not exactly sure but after 4+ i start not hearing anything i think i passed from one dimention to another
as a meal night before before big hold i got spagetti and made of cauliflower+potato+olive oil meal and as a drink 1/2 orange juice(fresh squied) and last before sleep drink 1 big glass grabe molasses melt in water..this things made me strong
Now!...searching what kind of fruits or vegi consist of NUTRITION to Recovery and Katabasis relaxation technique i heard it but have got no idea about it ...today i am ok..i will give a break for about 10 days to breath hold(dry)..i will move to my family tomorrow (450km away) and will swim in the sea...tempurature starts goes over 25+ and suny days starts i will make some soft wet static in the sea ...Cheers Sedate!

So Sedate, rest is good. I once rested for 6 months and came back to apnea with a very healthy static time.

Pete

Thanks info Pete... i remember from jump 4:50 to 5:30 was after 15 days break... Cheers Sedate!

Great static Sedate. Congratulations. This is probably how you progress. A small change and/or a short break after you seem to be 'stuck' at a certain time. One of the very best told me that this was the way it happened for him when he made his last PB.
You also posted a few days ago about not feeling well and cancelling the training. This often will work but another way is to train anyway and make it an easy day. Your body will get used to the ups and downs and will help if competition day you don't feel 100%.
Aloha
Bill

Bill
as you know i stuck 4:30 for about 2 or 3 months i remember i disappointed at that time stuck all the time at 5:01 and more 4:50 ... i said to myself this is all my best i can do i gave up holding breath for a while(10-15days).. ...i do not know what happened... but happened something... jumped to 5:30 in the first big hold and following the day i did not sleep very well 4:00 am sleep wakup 8:00 am therefore i canceled! i was really too tired..
1 day break
and following the day i was really ok and 10 hrs i slept in bed and before the night i got strong meal more water, too
second hold 5:50 i mean all happened in 3 days
Cheers Sedate!
All the best!

 

[tylerz]

Hi Tyler, except having it to work, why is that? and what kind of carbohydrates?

The "why" is complex in terms of what my reasoning/intuition is, and I have lots more to flush out in what I am learning before I can say with strong confidence one way or another. But a key source of my inclination is that blood sugar and oxygen are the source of energy to our cells over relatively long periods of time (ie. statics), therefore you don't want to start a static in a state of low blood sugar nor low oxygen. If you load yourself with something readily converted to blood sugar, then you will ensure your muscle and liver stores of glycogen (readily converted to glucose upon low blood sugar levels) are topped up and your blood sugar will be relatively high. However, supposedly immediately after ingesting a concentrated source of carbohydrates, the body actually raises in metabolism as it becomes active in digestion, deals with a high level of blood sugar, releases insulin, and converts excess glucose to fat. So, ideally you want to have considerable time between the last time you ate or drank a sugary drink and your static. That changes if you are actively exerting yourself... then a sugary drink can actually replenish you without rest and does not cause the problems associated with taking it prior to exertion.

Anyhow, too much to express at this moment and not organized enough to do so. Travelling at the moment.

It is suggested that effective carbohydrates would be dried fruits, potatoes, white pasta, white rice, corn, etc... These aren't considered very healthy foods in many circles, therefore I am not inclined to use them for general nutrition, but instead just as a performance preparation.

Hope that assists for now... stay tuned.

 

[jome]

I think that if you've had a lot of sugar or carbs right before static, it also raises the repiratory quotient, which unless you have very good co2 tolerance can make the static unbearable, even if you have plenty of oxygen.

If I've understood the thing correctly, the difference is quite remarkeable. After fasting, RQ would be close to 0.7 and in pure "carb mode", 1.0...?

 

[tylerz]

I think that if you've had a lot of sugar or carbs right before static, it also raises the repiratory quotient, which unless you have very good co2 tolerance can make the static unbearable, even if you have plenty of oxygen.

Yes, with the rise in insulin, this inhibits the mobilization of fat (conversion from stored fat to mobile fat in the blood), therefore most energy would be derived from glucose. Glucose having a higher RQ (CO2/O2) than fat, would imply higher CO2 levels.

If I've understood the thing correctly, the difference is quite remarkeable. After fasting, RQ would be close to 0.7 and in pure "carb mode", 1.0...?

Supposedly at rest the average persons burns around 60-65% fat and most of the rest as carbohydrates. 0.7 is the RQ for fat and 1 is the RQ for carbohydrate, which gives around 0.82 for an RQ if you were maintaining a standard carbohydrate diet.

 

[Oligo]

Talking about "alkaline" and "acidic" blood and body fluids is rather silly, as humans cannot easily survive blood pH outside the range of 6.9-7.9. Thus when you say that you have "alkaline" blood, you actually mean that you have managed to accumulate a lot of buffer capacity to buffer the effects of carbon dioxide on the pH of your blood. And so "acidic" blood really means low buffer capacity.

Buffer capacity and pH are different things.

 

[Oligo]

Oligo Comatose people ??/where they are living?/ i never heard it before!? /you mean escimo people???!! right?!

They are all around and they don't even know they are comatose.

 

[tylerz]

Talking about "alkaline" and "acidic" blood and body fluids is rather silly, as humans cannot easily survive blood pH outside the range of 6.9-7.9.

A 12.6% variance is generally considered significant. What information are you referring to that suggests it isn't?

Thus when you say that you have "alkaline" blood, you actually mean that you have managed to accumulate a lot of buffer capacity to buffer the effects of carbon dioxide on the pH of your blood.

Actually, that is not what I meant.

And so "acidic" blood really means low buffer capacity.

Acidic blood does not mean that. See acidosis, respiratory acidosis.

You present this as though you have made a compelling refute against referring to one's pH (acidic/alkaline), although you didn't present anything to validate your conclusion?

I am not sure what is silly about it, can you maybe elaborate and include references?

You can find articles all over the web and in medical publications that speak about pH variations in the human body. ex:
http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Buffer/Buffer.html
http://www.naturalfoodsmerchandiser.com/asp/articleDisplay.asp?strArticleId=1479&strSite=NFMSite

<SNIPPET from second link>
However, the normal blood pH of 7.4 is outside the optimal buffering range; therefore, the addition of protons to the blood due to strenuous exercise may be too great for the buffer alone to effectively control the pH of the blood. When this happens, other organs must help control the amounts of CO2 and HCO3- in the blood. The lungs remove excess CO2 from the blood (helping to raise the pH via shifts in the equilibria...
<END>

Buffer capacity and pH are different things.

This is true, and previous references suggested that.

 

[perow1]

I agree, it is of very great importance to consider blood pH. The buffer systems and the mechanisms to regulate blood pH have developed because it is important for the survival of the organism.

The buffer capacity however is one major reason that we are able to hold our breath for a long time by keeping the blood pH stable in this stressful situation. To me it sounds reasonable that it is the buffer capacity that has to be increased to become a better apneist. (one of the reasons)

I find it interesting to speculate about the effects of raising pH before a breath hold. The better buffer capacity the better effect from a high pH since the scale is logarithmic and the buffer capacity may not be linear. If you get what i mean. Just speculating though.

 

[Oligo]

I'm saying that if you are breathing normally and not exercising strenuously, your blood pH is always 7.4, because it is vital to your survival. The mammalian body is crazy about keeping that pH just correct. Nothing you do (diet, warmups, whatever) can change that. What you are actually modulating with your warmups and such, is buffer capacity.

If you do a breathe up however, you get alkalosis, which goes away as soon as you start breathing normally. During a static, you get acidosis, which disappears when you start breathing again.

If you do a breathe up before a static, you start with an alkalosis, which soon turns into an acidosis. The speed of this turnaround is mainly dependant of the buffer capacity of blood.

 

[tylerz]

Here is an excellent publication on body pH:
http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/anaes/lectures/acidbase_mjb/control.html

"pH of the plasma (i.e. pH of the plasma of whole blood = conventional "blood" pH) is controlled at 7.4 (7.35 - 7.45). <snip> Changes in plasma pH reflect pH changes in other compartments."

I'm saying that if you are breathing normally and not exercising strenuously, your blood pH is always 7.4, because it is vital to your survival.

Previously, you stated blood and body fluid, however here you are only referring to blood. The blood may be ~7.4 but other tissue and fluid will have differences in pH. As quoted below valid ranges are 4.6-8 in pH tests of urine.

Quote from:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003583.htm
"The pH in blood is maintained within the narrow range of 7.35 to 7.45. <snip>Long-term correction of blood pH requires the kidneys to excrete the acid or base in urine. <snip>In some cases, checking your urine pH is helpful for identifying body acid-base imbalances. In other cases, a blood pH test is needed. <snip>The normal [urine pH test] values range from 4.6 to 8.0.

Quote from:
http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html
"Most people who suffer from unbalanced pH are acidic. This condition forces the body to borrow minerals—including calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium—from vital organs and bones to buffer (neutralize) the acid and safely remove it from the body. Because of this strain, the body can suffer severe and prolonged damage due to high acidity—a condition that may go undetected for years."

Note: "... a condition that may go undetected for years."

You can see in these articles that pH in the body flucuates with dramatic effect in people. Also the pH scale is logarithmic, where an increment of 1 unit in pH is a tenfold increase in hydrogen ions.

The mammalian body is crazy about keeping that pH just correct. Nothing you do (diet, warmups, whatever) can change that.

According to my references, all the things in your list can affect your body's pH, therefore it can affect your blood pH. Once again, any reference that states otherwise? You specified "... breathing normally and not exercising strenuously...", whereas I think you need to add many more idealic states for the claims to be accurate. Such as, no digestion taking place, perfect health, specific metabolic state, excreted excess acids from previous digestion/activity, body temperature, etc...

What you are actually modulating with your warmups and such, is buffer capacity.

Yes, in the short term it is easily modified. However, "warmups and such" is rather vague, so I find I am hesitant to agree that everybody prior to a static has stable levels of body fluid and tissue pH.

If you do a breathe up however, you get alkalosis, which goes away as soon as you start breathing normally. During a static, you get acidosis, which disappears when you start breathing again.

If you do a breathe up before a static, you start with an alkalosis, which soon turns into an acidosis. The speed of this turnaround is mainly dependant of the buffer capacity of blood.

The original context of discussing blood alkalinity and acidity was towards factors that affect one's static. It seemed that this is what you referred to as being a "silly" reference. Now it appears that you are only referring to attempts to change one's blood pH in the short-term prior to a static. Do I understand you correctly?

 

[Oligo]

"pH of the plasma (i.e. pH of the plasma of whole blood = conventional "blood" pH) is controlled at 7.4 (7.35 - 7.45). <snip> Changes in plasma pH reflect pH changes in other compartments."

Previously, you stated blood and body fluid, however here you are only referring to blood. The blood may be ~7.4 but other tissue and fluid will have differences in pH. As quoted below valid ranges are 4.6-8 in pH tests of urine.

Blood pH is indeed linked with pH of other bodily compartments and vice versa. And as we know that blood pH stays pretty much fixed, so does the pH of other compartments that are linked to it. Furthermore, the pH of blood is of the utmost importance to an apneist as blood is one of the primary stores for oxygen and carbon dioxide.

Urine does not affect the pH of the rest of the body as it is the final destination of excess acid and/or base molecules. Thus the pH of urine changes so that the pH of the rest of the body would stay the same, as pointed out by the source you gave:

"The pH in blood is maintained within the narrow range of 7.35 to 7.45. <snip>Long-term correction of blood pH requires the kidneys to excrete the acid or base in urine. <snip>In some cases, checking your urine pH is helpful for identifying body acid-base imbalances. In other cases, a blood pH test is needed. <snip>The normal [urine pH test] values range from 4.6 to 8.0.

http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html
"Most people who suffer from unbalanced pH are acidic. This condition forces the body to borrow minerals—including calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium—from vital organs and bones to buffer (neutralize) the acid and safely remove it from the body. Because of this strain, the body can suffer severe and prolonged damage due to high acidity—a condition that may go undetected for years."

I won't comment on this reference as it is sales material for a health food store and not a scientific document.

You can see in these articles that pH in the body flucuates with dramatic effect in people. Also the pH scale is logarithmic, where an increment of 1 unit in pH is a tenfold increase in hydrogen ions.

According to my references, all the things in your list can affect your body's pH, therefore it can affect your blood pH. Once again, any reference that states otherwise? You specified "... breathing normally and not exercising strenuously...", whereas I think you need to add many more idealic states for the claims to be accurate. Such as, no digestion taking place, perfect health, specific metabolic state, excreted excess acids from previous digestion/activity, body temperature, etc...

The scientific references you gave point out that the pH of the blood and other bodily compartments linked to it is strictly maintained at a certain level, partly by breathing and partly by excretion. Thus the references you gave prove my point about the pH of the body being a near constant in a healthy individual (7.35 - 7.45).

The original context of discussing blood alkalinity and acidity was towards factors that affect one's static. It seemed that this is what you referred to as being a "silly" reference. Now it appears that you are only referring to attempts to change one's blood pH in the short-term prior to a static. Do I understand you correctly?

I was referring to attempts other than breathe up routines to change the pH of the blood and linked bodily fluids as being silly as it is the buffer capacity (not pH) you change by warmup routines, diet and so forth.

 

[tylerz]

Blood pH is indeed linked with pH of other bodily compartments and vice versa. And as we know that blood pH stays pretty much fixed, so does the pH of other compartments that are linked to it.

I didn't realize the other compartments do not fluctuate much more than the blood in general. It seems that the general clarification you are targetting is that the blood, and affecting compartments', pH under healthy resting conditions are not going to deviate from their corresponding healthy range due to diet, or temporary activities. I understand this more clearly now after researching to try to understand where you are coming from.

Now, irregardless of the amount of pH changes, I am mainly trying to suggest that acid is formed at different rates, with different quantities, and as different specific types, depending on variables at work (ie. exercise, diet, metabolism, etc...).

Urine does not affect the pH of the rest of the body as it is the final destination of excess acid and/or base molecules. Thus the pH of urine changes so that the pH of the rest of the body would stay the same, as pointed out by the source you gave

It doesn't affect the pH of the body but it is a tell-tale window into the activity occuring in the body. If the urine is highly acidic, then the body has at some point been dealing with an excess production of acid. So, my reasoning is that if high levels are persistent then your body is generating excess acid and therefore it seems a reasonable claim to state your body is acidic. The actual pH of your blood and body tissue may not be outside of its healthy range due to buffering, but the fact that acid is being generated and as a result buffering occurs gives credence to claiming the body environment is more acidic than it could otherwise be.

The previous reasoning points out, that our discussion seems to be revolving around whether referring to one's body as acidic refers to an appreciable change in body pH or instead refers to one's state of acid production. If the distinction is made, do you agree that they are both valid? In this thread I refer to the latter in speaking of variables affecting our statics.

I was referring to attempts other than breathe up routines to change the pH of the blood and linked bodily fluids as being silly as it is the buffer capacity (not pH) you change by warmup routines, diet and so forth.

And I am suggesting that one is affecting more than just buffer capacity, also affected is acid production. Which in turn will lower buffer capacity.

Cheers,
Tyler

------------------------

Other related points and articles:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html
But your blood never becomes acidic because as soon as the proteins are converted to organic acids, calcium leaves your bones to neutralize the acid and prevent any change in pH. Because of this, many scientists think that taking in too much protein may weaken bones to cause osteoporosis.

http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/537/3/993
The changes in interstitial pH exceeded the changes in venous blood pH.
<snip>
Furthermore, studies using microdialysis in active muscle have demonstrated that during
muscle activity interstitial concentrations of lactate were higher than venous lactate c
oncentrations (MacLean et al. 1999), suggesting that the equilibration across the capill
ary wall is restricted.
<snip>
In addition, the buffer capacity of interstitium and blood is different.
<snip>
For these reasons, it can be hypothesised that the exercise-induced changes in interstit
ial and venous blood pH are different and that the changes in venous blood pH underestim
ate the local interstitial pH changes.
<snip>
Thus resting muscle pH is at least 0.2 pH units lower than interstitial pH (7.38).

 

[perow1]

How many of you +6.30 divers find dry static training beneficial, and what do you do to resemble the wet static as much as possible?

Sometimes it feels like training dry static is training something COMPLETELY different than wet static. There are SO many differences, but since pool times are precious to me I have to rely on some dry static. You get good at what you train and doing a +6.30 static dry is no game, but when i get to the pool it is so much different. I am aware of the many things that makes a dry static easier, for me the biggest deal is body position in the water. My question is;
Is the dry static training simply a waste of time or is it beneficial? My theory, or should i say fear, is that when approaching my limit i have to work on the details that has to do with the water, no matter how great my increases on land may be. If I work to hard on details on land i mightfind a way that is great for dry statics, but useless for wet static. I DO practice wet static aswell, but not as often as I would like.

 

[Oligo]

I didn't realize the other compartments do not fluctuate much more than the blood in general. It seems that the general clarification you are targetting is that the blood, and affecting compartments', pH under healthy resting conditions are not going to deviate from their corresponding healthy range due to diet, or temporary activities.

Yes, that's what I am saying.

Now, irregardless of the amount of pH changes, I am mainly trying to suggest that acid is formed at different rates, with different quantities, and as different specific types, depending on variables at work (ie. exercise, diet, metabolism, etc...).

You are correct. And the effect of these variables shows up in urine pH.

So, my reasoning is that if high levels are persistent then your body is generating excess acid and therefore it seems a reasonable claim to state your body is acidic. The actual pH of your blood and body tissue may not be outside of its healthy range due to buffering, but the fact that acid is being generated and as a result buffering occurs gives credence to claiming the body environment is more acidic than it could otherwise be.

Well, I strongly suggest that you should not use those words in such a way. When you have acidosis (during a static for example), then your body is acidic. If your body is dealing with excess acid from diet or elsewhere, but is not actually acidic, then you should maybe call it acid stress. To avoid confusion, you know.

 

[jome]

Is the dry static training simply a waste of time or is it beneficial? My theory, or should i say fear, is that when approaching my limit i have to work on the details that has to do with the water, no matter how great my increases on land may be. If I work to hard on details on land i mightfind a way that is great for dry statics, but useless for wet static. I DO practice wet static aswell, but not as often as I would like.

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time, at least in the beginning. I rarely do it anymore, but I'd say 90% of my progress is from dry statics...

Yes, it's a different thing, but dry statics are very useful for a few things:
-Experimenting with "juggling of variables". Unless you have access to pool everyday, you simply cannot do this in water effectively. You can change things around in your peraparation and see what works or not and do it safely. For example trying out different ventilation strategies, different eating strategies etc and so forth. Through trial and error you start to understand and read your body and it's reactions and what works and what doesn't. For example after trying right after a heavy meal a few times, you will soon realize something, as well as trying statics right after 2 hours of jogging...You get the idea...
-Physiological adaptations to High CO2/low o2. All kinds of wonderful things you can do with empty lungs etc
-Mental tolerance: I find it is easier to push further in dry, simply because it is safer. This is an individual thing, but still.
-Pack stretching: doing statics (with packing) regularily will greatly enhance your packing volume. Wheather or not this is healthy, I will not say, but it does increase your times significantly

I would say that dry statics are useful, but you should always treat them as their own thing...It's like in dynamic, you can break the performance into components and practise them individually: technique, speed, apnea, balance...In dry static you can train some of the "components" of statics, but it will not usually directly apply to your wet static. You are missing some crucial "components" that simply have to be trained in water.

The one really useful thing I've found out is using a nose clip during dry statics. I found that it really makes me much more uncomfortable, plus I was taking "micro breaths" through my nose. Since your nose is blocked in water anyway (regardless if you use a noseclip or not), I find it simulates that environment better...

The most useful thing about dry statics is that you can do tons of them easily and safely. Most of us simply cannot get that kind of training frequency in water, but I agree, if you can, you should do it in water. But it gets boring really fast, so I suggest that you don't get stuck on just doing the same routine and a max hold every day. Try to experiment, try varying your routines, try to find the weaknesses in it. Sometimes, don't even go for max, do things like no warmup maximums, timing just contractions, series of FRC/empty lung statics...Stuff to keep it interesting...Save your "solid routine" for in water and competition statics, but use dry to try and find out a better one...