• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

big improvement in static apnea !!!! why????

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Well we all can agree that inhaling using the diaphram for the breath hold is a must correct?

Breathing from the diaphram is considered to be the most natural, healthy way to breathe at ALL times; you can do shallow breaths from diaphram as well. Hook breathing and chest breaths which are used as the first few breaths after diving are not 'natural' but neither is the extremely deep, near limit type diving for which those techniques were developed and adopted.

I know most schools seem to teach these deep breathing techniques as part of breathe up and I have read that most modern adults do not breathe from the diaphram so perhaps this is part of the logic; these coaches feel students need to be taught to breathe correctly. Luckily they also teach students to watch each other and to never dive alone as well. And as was mentioned, mild hyperventilation leads to very fast easy gains in beginners. In a supervised setting it is certainly a safer practice, moreso if the person has an untrained CO2 tolerance, in which case they will abort the hold long before they are seriously hypoxic. There are rare exceptions; some untrained individuals can effortlessly swim right into samba. If you are one of those individuals I would assume your instructor caught on quick and warned you; the one guy I met like that had taken a class thank god. If he had bought fins and headed into the ocean alone to give this freediving thing a try he would probably be dead.
 
Exactly the point - diaphragmatic breathing is the best way to breath at all times, not only during breath up. How deep you breathe though is a different story, all we are saying is that one should not exaggerate and take really deep breaths during preparation for diving.

2:1 will not in itself cause HV - in fact it doesn't mean much. Inhaling and exhaling slowly will reduce the changes of HV (obviously fast breathing produces HV). But just because we're breathing in and out slowly, doesn't mean that we need to take super deep breaths. If you do super fast and deep 2:1 breathing, you will be HV big time.

As sometimes in freediving courses, the lengths of the inhalation and expiration in 2:1 are on purpose exaggerated, people think that they need to do super deep breathing in order to be able to have really long inhales and exhales.

You can do 2:1 breathing with normal breathing in and out and things will be fine but I even doubt you need to do this - why not let your body breathe normally...

The way I see things - any excessively FAST/DEEP breathing will cause HV. You can try and counter-balance breathing DEEPER by also breathing SLOWER (or vice versa) and you *might* end up getting the balance right and not HV but if you want to know what you are doing and not HV for sure, you can just breath normally.

I personally found it quite nice and relaxing to even take slightly shallower breaths (diaphagmatic still) - I think someone mentioned this here too before, maybe it was Eric.

Taking abnormally slow or deep breaths for me is not relaxing at all and I notice that most people doing this (beginners at least), tense their shoulder etc in the process...
 
Last edited:
Exactly the point - diaphragmatic breathing is the best way to breath at all times, not only during breath up. How deep you breathe though is a different story, all we are saying is that one should not exaggerate and take really deep breaths during preparation for diving.

2:1 will not in itself cause HV - in fact it doesn't mean much. Inhaling and exhaling slowly will reduce the changes of HV (obviously fast breathing produces HV). But just because we're breathing in and out slowly, doesn't mean that we need to take super deep breaths. If you do super fast and deep 2:1 breathing, you will be HV big time.

As sometimes in freediving courses, the lengths of the inhalation and expiration in 2:1 are on purpose exaggerated, people think that they need to do super deep breathing in order to be able to have really long inhales and exhales.

You can do 2:1 breathing with normal breathing in and out and things will be fine but I even doubt you need to do this - why not let your body breathe normally...

The way I see things - any excessively FAST/DEEP breathing will cause HV. You can try and counter-balance breathing DEEPER by also breathing SLOWER (or vice versa) and you *might* end up getting the balance right and not HV but if you want to know what you are doing and not HV for sure, you can just breath normally.

I personally found it quite nice and relaxing to even take slightly shallower breaths (diaphagmatic still) - I think someone mentioned this here too before, maybe it was Eric.

Taking abnormally slow or deep breaths for me is not relaxing at all and I notice that most people doing this (beginners at least), tense their shoulder etc in the process...

All good info for sure. Perhaps my explination of how they taught us to breath up wasnt very good. And it may leave you with the same opinion of the the technique but its a deep normal pace inhale slightly slower then youd do on the final inhale before a hold to around 80% or so, Followed by a slow exhale thats not pushed rather let the lungs deflate on their own. That takes atleast 10 seconds. In my experience it is exremely relaxing and reduces the heart rate very noticeably just by feel. Also you find yourself not in any hurry to inhale at the end of an exhale. I have to remind myself to not hold my breath at the end of the exhale because im so relaxed.

Im going to continue with this technique until i find faults. But so far im loving it. Also any apnea will be supervised by a trained buddy so a black out will be easily handled. If you freedive long enough you will black out so rather then fear it just be prepared for it and enjoy the dives. Nothing new to most people on this forum im sure.
 
Last edited:
All good info for sure. Perhaps my explination of how they taught us to breath up wasnt very good. And it may leave you with the same opinion of the the technique but its a deep normal pace inhale slightly slower then youd do on the final inhale before a hold to around 80% or so, Followed by a slow exhale thats not pushed rather let the lungs deflate on their own. That takes atleast 10 seconds. In mt

Don't worry, I understand what you were taught. I was taught an identical breath up - visualising the numbers or inhale/exhale etc. There is nothing wrong with it per se and most people achieve good results in the course using it.

It's just worth being aware though that if you breathe a bit too deeply, it can still lead to HV - 2:1 is not anything magic in itself. If it works for you use it but similarly it's worth experimenting a bit with other methods too.

Holds might feel harder but you might end up doing better in the medium turn - I am trying this a bit myself now and finding it tough :duh
 
I'm trying to understand, for those of you which experimented with O2 meter, what is the delta (difference) between deep breath ups 2:1 and regular tidal relaxed breathing in means of %saturation?

It would probably vary among individuals and even in me it can vary day to day, and then you figure a $70 device is not word of god, but unconscious breathing during and following mild exertion puts me at about 98%; sometimes mild exertion with especially deep full breaths (as oppossed to more natural 'panting') I may see it touch 99%. After exertion when I am recovered (reduced pulse and no breathing impulse) it is still 98% or 97% for some time. I don't have exact numbers but if I am already at 98% and at rest or exercising at a low intensity (efficient apnea pace) maybe 2-3 full, diaphramatic purge breaths would put me at 99%, even if very slow (10+ sec exhale). For me the threshhold between fully topped off and too much (by that I mean ending a hold with less O2 than otherwise) is very narrow--like just a few of those big breaths.

Less O2 at the end of the hold after a few too many purge breaths may be 3-4% on a set involving repeat 3 minute dry dynamic, which for me is a pretty tough set--a lot of accumulated CO2, some actual hypoxia and lactic acid burn. I will try to take better notes but it is tough to do the set and pay attention to numbers. That is also WAY harder than I would push on a spearing dive, but bottom line 3-4% could be the difference between a really gnarly 'something went very wrong down there' dive that ends in exhaustion, dead legs, and fading vision or one that ends in blackout. In test results I have seen but not performed which involved trained divers doing static apnea after 10 or more purge breaths, the difference in O2 was much more pronounced.
 
Don't worry, I understand what you were taught. I was taught an identical breath up - visualising the numbers or inhale/exhale etc. There is nothing wrong with it per se and most people achieve good results in the course using it.

It's just worth being aware though that if you breathe a bit too deeply, it can still lead to HV - 2:1 is not anything magic in itself. If it works for you use it but similarly it's worth experimenting a bit with other methods too.

Holds might feel harder but you might end up doing better in the medium turn - I am trying this a bit myself now and finding it tough :duh

Sorry i bumped submit early so i added to the post.

But yeah i hear you and will absolutely keep an open mind to all techniques.
 
All good info for sure. Perhaps my explination of how they taught us to breath up wasnt very good. And it may leave you with the same opinion of the the technique but its a deep normal pace inhale slightly slower then youd do on the final inhale before a hold to around 80% or so, Followed by a slow exhale thats not pushed rather let the lungs deflate on their own. That takes atleast 10 seconds. In my experience it is exremely relaxing and reduces the heart rate very noticeably just by feel. Also you find yourself not in any hurry to inhale at the end of an exhale. I have to remind myself to not hold my breath at the end of the exhale because im so relaxed.

Im going to continue with this technique until i find faults. But so far im loving it. Also any apnea will be supervised by a trained buddy so a black out will be easily handled. If you freedive long enough you will black out so rather then fear it just be prepared for it and enjoy the dives. Nothing new to most people on this forum im sure.

Thank you for clarifying. 'lungs deflate on their own' is to me very different than 'exhale'.
 
Ah yes.. Also i use my mouth to slow the deflation by making a smaller opening with the teeth and lips. Making a "Shhh" sound.

For me too this is the most relaxing way to prolong the exhale - I use my lips instead (by inflating my cheeks and letting a bit of air escape from the lips).

The other ways you can use are limit the exchale at the epiglottis (think yoga breathing) or use chest/diaphragm to control the exhale but I personally find that a bit tiring..
 
If you freedive long enough you will black out so rather then fear it just be prepared for it and enjoy the dives. Nothing new to most people on this forum im sure.

I have to disagree with you there. There are plenty of experienced, long time divers who have never had a BO. BO does not have to be something you experience if you dive safely. Yes it is important to recognise the signs, the causes and be able to deal with it if you ever encounter it when diving with a buddy and have to use the safety protocol. But I think to take the attitude that its gonna happen to me at some point is somewhat of an unsafe attitude. It's like saying if I drive real fast I'm gonna have a crash one day so I may as well be prepared. :duh
 
I have to disagree with you there. There are plenty of experienced, long time divers who have never had a BO. BO does not have to be something you experience if you dive safely. Yes it is important to recognise the signs, the causes and be able to deal with it if you ever encounter it when diving with a buddy and have to use the safety protocol. But I think to take the attitude that its gonna happen to me at some point is somewhat of an unsafe attitude. It's like saying if I drive real fast I'm gonna have a crash one day so I may as well be prepared. :duh

I think a better example would be: if i drive safely my whole life its still very likely i will be in a car crash of some sort so i need air bags in my car for that day.

Accepting that it likely will eventually happen to you or some one your diving with will cut down reaction time to taking control of the situation. If you wait until it happens to accept it, that it will make you that much less efficient because your mind will have to go through the whole proccess of acceptance in the moment.

Its kind of like gun ownership. If you own a gun for self defense you must mentally visualize and prepare yourself to inflict fatal injury to another human who is trying to do you harm. If you arent mentally prepared before it happens you shouldnt own a gun for self defense because you probably will fail when its time to act.

I want the guy safetying for me expecting me to BO when i dive. Not thinking it probably wont ever happen because we dive "safe".
 
Last edited:
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT