broken eardrums during records

[Herbert]

Maybe Aida should wait 50 years to validate any records, or just wait until they can make an autopsy, to see if the athlete’s body might have suffered from freediving.

I was very sad about my broken eardrum and was not in a celebrating mood at all. But making rules against broke eardrums, seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Breaking an eardrum is something which should definitely be avoided, but is anything but live threatening. Compared to the effects of narcosis, O2 toxicity, failing systems and DCS!!!, a broke eardrum is like good sex.

During no-limit training, I never surface before making a deco stop on pure Oxygen, except on my deepest dive (~200m), where I came up too far away (but I still made a 30 seconds breath hold deco stop and went down to 6m right after surfacing).

The official record forced me to risk DCS, by making a breath hold deco stop. I think this is something to be worth while a discussion. E.g. the freediver is allowed to stop the ascent at 6m and take pure O2 after the sled hits the surface - but is that freediving.

We (at least some of us) are coming very close to depths where many things could get dangerous - maybe we have to accept that there are limits to this sport.

 

[Billextreme]

..of course there is a limit somewhere, but I guess we still have far to go.

In the sled-dives, maybe 1000ft is something that is just 2-3 years away.

...of course it will be more dangerous, but peaople will dive anyway.

/B

Here you find a picture on Herbert's equalize extension tool the EQEX

http://www.apneamania.com/code/page.asp?pageID=5

:king

 

[perow1]

Is it some kind of ballon you inflate on the surface or what?
EQEX??

 

[Billextreme]

The EQEX is totaly empty when you leave the surface... but you fill it up in the beginning of your dive(10-30m) and then you use it when you equalize.

/B

 

[kingohyes]

wow, what a good invention..smart

 

[perow1]

I just figured that out when i was walking home, but I wasnt fast enough to post it....
...smart, but another piec of equipment added.

 

[Alun]

the version i was planning to make has the funnel tucked under the chin with a strap around the neck so it can be used for constant weight. making it is going to be tricky...

 

[efattah]

That's awesome! I'm so happy Herbert was allow to use the balloon for the mouthfill. That is the easiest method to equalize on an FRC dive beyond 75m but I was sure the balloon would not be allowed by the AIDA judges!

I'm glad to hear that Herbert was doing breath-hold deco. Good idea.

Do you realize, that by Herbert filling the balloon before 30m (perhaps as early as 15m), his chest experienced the greatest crush ever, far more than Patrick Musimu, since Herbert reached residual volume at the moment of the mouthfill, even before 30m.

 

[Alun]

Herbert,

why do you think it's so ridiculous to have a rule against broken ear drums? i understand that you've broken your ear drums twice and it hasn't been a big problem for you... on those occasions. not everyone would be as fortunate. it's like rolling the dice. everyone knows what can happen if you get water in the inner ear... it's not pretty. i don't really believe that you can burst your ear drums by accident. you always have the choice to turn around when the pressure and pain begin to build. for that reason would it not be fair and sensible to have a rule that disallows broken eardrums?

 

[cebaztian]

In really dont understand how Herbert and Patrick avoids severe lung-squeeze. The better you are at mouthfill the bigger squeeze you get. Specially with Herberts extra mouth. What an effective bloodshift they must have - but still, there must be blood spitting at the surface.

Sebastian

 

[samdive]

you certainly can burst your eardrums by accident. I have done it several times - once on an exhale dive when my drum burst inward

I am incredibly surprised that it has never happened to you Alun with the amount of diving you do. You have been very lucky if that is the case.

 

[laminar]

Herbert: I'm curious about the EQEX:

So you take a full breath, maybe packing (if you're greedy), then at 10-30m exhale into the balloon until you reach FRC type lung volume.

Do you also do a mouthfill?

Then, when you are unable to equalize with air in your mouth or diaphragm, then switch to the balloon? Or do you just use the EQEX the whole way down?

Does the EQEX have a one-way valve to prevent the air from just escaping? Do you only squeeze it to put air into your mouth?

How much air do you estimate you put into the balloon and at what depth?

I can see numerous advantages to diving with the EQEX or something like it, similar to mouthfill, of course:
-less air in your lungs, so reduces amount of nitrogen that gets exchanged throughout the dive, thus less DCS
-greater dive response since lung volume would be reduced (close to FRC or FRC or less)
-less effort to store air (proper mouthfill requires effort to do well and to hold the air in) so you can relax more
-store much, much more air for equalizing
-it's cute and orange!

Herbert, I would also be interested in your ideas about how you avoid squeeze. Do you think it is your dive response? Or do you have any other special strategies?

Pete

 

[Erik]

Should broken alvioli be a disqualifier? How many alvioli? How about a sinus squeeze? What about rope burn on a free immersion dive?
I don't think eardrum rupture should be an issue.
The deco stops might be an issue, but I'd think that outlawing them could get someone in some serious legal trouble, or at least having to deal with the guilt of bending a freediver.
Peace,
Erik Y.

 

[Alun]

i have to disagree Sam. in all the dives i've done over the years i've never even come close to damaging my ears, and i'm almost certainly i never will... why? because i always turn as soon as i fail to equalise. simple as that.

if you fail to equalise and you continue to descend until your ear drums burst then you can't really call it an 'accident'... you always have the choice to turn around and you get plenty of warning. if you take the risk then you have to be prepared to take the consequences.

the idea of counting burst alveoli is obviously making a joke of the issue again. the idea is that obvious (and potentially serious) barotrauma, as judged by a doctor, disqualifies the diver. sinus squeeze and rope burns are obviously not serious injuries.

as i see it there are two ways forward: keep using the existing rules until someone is seriously injured or killed, then improve them. (doh) or seriously address these issues now with the aim of preventing major incidents in the future. proactive rather than reactive?

 

[Alun]

sorry if i'm making a big deal of this but i see a big bubble of denial that needs popping

 

[samdive]

Hi Alun

everytime I have had an eardrum perf or rupture - I have had no warning - if my ears won't clear, I turn around, like everyone else. I have never forced one until it pops. Sometimes though - they just burst without any prior warning or any pain. This is usually towards the end of a time when I have spending a lot of time in the water (when they are soaked through and softer).

Maybe I am weird. I had grommets in the my eardrums for a year as a kid and the scars from that are still visible which might well mean they burst more easily than most. The kind of eardrum ruptures I have had are not at all the kind where your ears hurt like hell and you go on anyway just to get the depth - I am far too much of a wuss for that!!

Incidentally the first couple of times I burst my ears was on scuba - and again they just went, suddenly with no warning.

Anyone else have similar problems?

Luckily now they seem ok - I reckon there is so much scarring they can't break anymore!

As for sinus squeeze "not being a serious injury" - I would argue that is at least as serious as an eardrum perf. A pin hole in your ear that is healed a day later or blood pouring from your sinuses giving you headaches and breathing difficulties? I know which I would prefer!

 

[samdive]

as for the EQEX thing.... I gotta lot of respect for Herbert but surely once we start taking down devices to store air we are leaving "freediving" behind.. yeah its an interesting tool but do you guys REALLY think that is freediving?

personally I reckon if you can't fit the air you need inside you - then its getting into a whole different sport....

 

[efattah]

There is an even simpler way to judge whether or not the diver is okay, and it is my favourite.

In my view, there would be an event called the 'practical' depth category. My definition of a practical dive is a dive that can be done at least once a day. Either for pleasure, for exploration, or even for a commercial/salvage purpose.

So, you need to do the dive four times on four straight days. If you are unable to dive because of 'bad' weather, then your dive is not a practical dive, because either your logistics or your location are not practical. If you get bent, or break eardrums, or get severe squeeze, then continuing to do the same dive over and over with 24h in between would probably be fatal, thus DQing anyone dumb enough to try to go down again after suffering an injury.

To succeed in this event, you would need to make sure that you are not accumulating nitrogen between successive days, either by doing FRC or some sort of O2 deco.

I have an even more favourite category, which is called 'constant weight endurance.' It requires doing FIVE dives to the same depth with 15 minute recoveries. In this event, no scuba style deco is allowed. It is up to you to eliminate DCS risk by either taking less air in your lungs, or doing the dive extremely fast to reduce nitrogen absorption. To my knowledge the record is currently held by Sebastian Murat with five reps of 60m with 3 minute recoveries (FRC). That would case extreme DCS for an inhale+packing diver, by the way... Sebastian didn't even feel any post dive fatigue (i.e. not even non-clinical DCS).

To make it even more interesting, you could have different endurance categories. For example, the standard endurance category could require that you start each dive on 20 minute marks, i.e. if the dive takes 3 minutes that leaves 17 minutes until the next dive. Then the aggressive category requires starting your dives on 10 minute marks, and the ironman category requires starting each dive on 7 minute marks.

Such a style of endurance constant weight might also make a great spectator sport.

 

[efattah]

In terms of broken eardrums, I have never broken one. However, the closest I ever came was on a 75m dive with a 3mm wetsuit and a mask. I was getting suit squeeze on my right ear, but I didn't understand what was happening (this was early in my career in 2001). I was actually aiming for a deeper depth, but at 75m the outer capillaries of my right ear burst, flooding my outer ear with blood (thus equalizing the suit squeeze). This caused a dramatic sudden increase in pressure on my eardrum, almost bursting it but not quite. My outer ear later became infected, because in those days I hadn't yet adopted the habit of disinfecting my ears with rubbing alcohol after each day of diving.

 

[perow1]

So, no other reactions on the "extra mouth"? The general reaction seems to be to accept it with a cheer.