BSA MCZ News & Discussion

[BSA]

Hi Everybody

The British Spearfishing Association (B.S.A.) has started a profile on the DeeperBlue forum to give more information about the Association and to provide any pertinent news for those diving in British waters. There has been a National Organisation for spearfishing in Great Britain since the mid 1950’s. It was originally called The Spearfishing Club of Great Britain but changed its name in the early 1980’s and has been known ever since as the British Spearfishing Association. Hopefully you will find the posts in this thread interesting and informative.

Best Regards
Kevin Daly
(B.S.A. Secretary)

 

[BSA]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Firstly, here’s some news from the Fisheries Officer:

DEFRA have just announced the consultation on a new set of Marine Conservation Zones, as promised in the Marine and Coastal Access Act. Government seeks views on proposed Marine Conservation Zones « Defra News


What does this mean to spearfishermen?
The first thing to understand is that these are NOT "no take zones"
The areas listed in the DEFRA documents were produced from 4 regional projects which have been running for the last few years trying to identify areas for Marine Conservation Zones. The British Spearfishing Association had a representative on the steering group of Finding Sanctuary, which covered Devon Cornwall and Dorset, and has been very active throughout the process making sure all spearfishermen are treated fairly. Also on the steering groups were representatives from as many user groups as possible: scientists, anglers, conservation groups, commercial fisherman of all types, yachties, aggregate companies, harbour authorities etc etc. The idea was to try and reach some sort of consensus as to the best places to put MCZs for maximum benefit and minimum negative impact.

Each of the areas listed has been selected because it contains a specific habitat type or species. If, following the consultation which has just been announced, DEFRA go forward with an area, it will then be the responsibility of the "competent authority" to bring in management measures which will protect the species/ habitat the area has been designated for. In the case of anywhere inside 6 miles this will be the local IFCA (Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority, what used to be the Sea Fisheries Committee). These measures may take the form of byelaws or may be some kind of voluntary agreement if that is thought appropriate. It will need to be demonstrated that any management measures proposed are effective , reasonable and proportional.
As an example, the "Chesil Beach and Stennis Ledges" site has high energy intertidal rock, pink sea fan and native oyster listed as the habitats and species it is being proposed for. If the site goes forward management measures which protect these species will need to be introduced by Southern IFCA (after a further public consultation as required of all new byelaws) Activites which may damage the species or habitat, such as in this case probably towed gear (trawling and scallop dredging) and aggregate extraction will be restricted or stopped, but activities not thought to have a harmfull effect (such as lobster potting, angling and spearfishing) will continue as before.
In practical terms most of the MCZs will probably have some restrictions on towed gear, but static gear, angling and spearfishing should be largely unaffected.

The BSA committee will now go through the whole document and prepare an official response, which will take some time. If any spearfishermen (BSA members or not) have concerns about about specific sites, or have anything you would like covered in the response please get in touch.

Further information and updates, including the BSAs official consultation response once it has been prepared can be found on the BSA website British Spearfishing Association and the BSA facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/BritishSpearfishingAssociation?fref=ts

 

[artiz]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

In practical terms most of the MCZs will probably have some restrictions on towed gear, but static gear, angling and spearfishing should be largely unaffected.

Does that mean you can you hold your competitions in the MCZ's?

 

[Jonny250]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Hi kevin, welcome to Deeperblue!
Great idea to start this thread good luck with the response to defra.

 

[Scoobaru]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Welcome on board Kevin. A great idea to keep spearos up to date with all the BSA events and news. Good luck with the responses hopefully you'll get some good feedback.

Dive safe and see you soon Matt

 

[foxfish]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Welcome to the forum Kevin.

 

[artiz]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

OK niceties out of the way so now perhaps we can get down to the nitty-gritty please Kevin...

From the extensive reading I have done over the last year regarding Marine Protection Zones, MPA's etc they are essentially tools of management for conservation and sustainability... not before time perhaps but still clearly an ongoing and intensifying challenge to the ancient freedom of the not-for-profit catching of fish etc in our UK seas. The powers that be are most likely to introduce these areas initially as 'take zones' so that everyone gets used to the first stages of creeping legislation... what would be the point of an MPZ unless it was to protect the marine environment and its creatures... as they do in increasing size and numbers around the world? The future management of these zones is key here and its reasonable to assume that it is directly with their management teams that we, as people who spearfish in the UK, need to consult/negotiate/assist or even become part of when attempting to protect our disparate and varied future interests.
A big problem from my point of view is that the BSA is the only recognised and representational body for spearfishing in the UK and yet because of your determination to retain competitive spearfishing over the last few years, your ethos does not actually represent the majority of people who go spearfishing in the UK... notwithstanding recent web site changes of course.
Therefore my initial questions is... to what extent is the BSA really prepared to adapt to a more ethical and sustainable outlook (& its possible benefits) rather than an unethical sponsorship and promotion of an outdated blood sport which has the potential for disastrous consequences for the future of spearfishing in the UK.
My second question is how can a committed competitive spearo possibly hope to represent an ethical & sustainable model of spearfishing to the Inshore Fisheries and 'Conservation' Authority?
My last question for now is... could the reason for your current recruitment drive via Deeperblue, Facebook etc be because the BSA is and has for a long time been suffering from falling membership due to lack of interest in competitive spearfishing?
I should conclude by stating that I would very much like a BSA that could represent my ethical and sustainable beliefs & practices. I am not attempting to discredit the BSA here I'm far more interested in having an intelligent, non-hypocritical representation at the highest level which may be able to negotiate some kind of future for spearfishing in the UK. As things stand at the moment I very much fear that spearfishing in the UK is currently in an extremely precarious situation!

Lastly please be assured that I am definitely not looking to offend with these questions/concerns.

 

[Kars]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Ok, I'm just an outsider, a Dutchman with no government recognised spearfishing rights, so please forgive my ignorance.


Reading I think the core question Artiz has in how the BSA is going to argue to the (new) 'authorities' to preserve the legality of spearfishing.

I think his point is to say it's very difficult to sell spearfishing as a sport, because most people are against killing anything for sport.

I thinks he says it's better to centre the argument with the right to gather food for personal sustainability.

I think this is a sensible question about strategy in dealing with the whole sustainable green tsunami that is forced upon us though billions of advertisement, and thousands of laws and hundred's of UN mandates.

However before I can start an argument I need to inform myself about what the BSA's current strategy is, what their core arguments are in this struggle for spearfishing.
Please fill me in Kevin.



On tip, as freedivers and spearfishermen we're very passionate and feel very certain about our strategy and position. Knowing this I urge everyone to slow down their judgement, and inquire before you go to conclusions, typing alienating statements.
I've done this, and these days I reread my post and be much reserved with my judgements, even not posting my post if I think it's not helpful to anyone.

 

[kevind]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Artiz

I reacted as such because myself and others were highly offended by some of your previous posts in another thread. These couldn't be taken as anything other than an attempt to discredit and hence my reluctance to enter your debate. I appreciate you have now made an unreserved apology on the other thread so I will put that aside and try and answer your questions as best I can:

#1 Change in the BSA : The BSA has implemented numerous changes over the last few years. On the competitive side we have included species limits, greater size limits than fisheries legislation requires and limited the number of National Competitions. Competition to date has been a major component that has maintained the association. Yes members of the association have voted through new aims and subsequently we are in the process of developing various new initiatives to help members and non-members with safety and training as well as our ongoing efforts to protect and maintain the rights of spearfishers in the UK. It is a bit early to talk about the new initiatives as the purpose of this thread was to announce them at a stage when we are in a position to do so. Lets face it, we will never please everyone. We have many members who are happy with the status quo and do not want change and there are other potential members who want more radical change. I would like to think we are trying for that elusive middle ground.

#2 I am not sure who you are referring to as the committed competitive spearo. I unashamedly enjoy the competitive side and have been honoured to represent Great Britain, but representing the BSA to any authorities is not my remit. Our current Fisheries Officer does the occasional competition, more because he enjoys the social side. IFCAs are made up of a variety of stakeholders, appointed by the Marine Management Organisation. Cornwall IFCA, which our fisheries officer sits on includes scallop dredgers, potters, conservations anglers and marine scientists in its membership. Why should entering spearfishing competitions be a bar to being in the group? The MMO obviously did not see it as a problem. Our current fisheries officer and others have done some excellent work in the past protecting our rights (recent examples: EU regulations prohibiting the use of projectiles, a Sussex sea fisheries byelaw, and a potential byelaw in South Wales). They have also done excellent work in building positive relationships with fisheries managers, conservation bodies, angling groups etc

#3 Yes, membership has fallen somewhat recently. Everyone will have different opinions as to the reason. Personally I believe it is the lack of publicity and possibly the financial climate. Facebook is already helping and only time will tell with DeeperBlue. These posts are certainly not going to convince everyone to join but hopefully those who don't will have better knowledge and hopefully respect for the work that has and is being done.

Again these are just my personal views.
Regards
Kevin

Dafydd/Artiz - I will try answer the first question a bit later. I am on kid duty at the moment so no time now.

 

[kevind]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Does that mean you can you hold your competitions in the MCZ's?

I can see no legal reason why a spearfishing competition could not be held in an MCZ where spearfishing is allowed.
BUT
Just because something is legal it does not mean we should do it. Whether it would be appropriate for political/ PR reasons is something that would need to be looked at by the committee on a case by case basis. It would all depend on local feelings, type of designation, history of comps in the area, voluntary agreements in place etc etc.
These sorts of things are considered for all competitions, not just ones which may be in MCZs

 

[Broseidon]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Hi Kevin,

Many thanks for creating this thread - I really hope that it will give some clarity to what the BSA actually does. There are some points I want to make & questions I want to ask - these are probing but not meant to be inflammatory. As the BSA is the self elected mouth-piece for UK spearfishermen, I feel that as a spearo, I have the right to ask some questions without anyone getting upset or cross at me as these are genuine concerns I have. I have the upmost respect for you as a spearo, as I've mentioned numerous times when commenting on you videos!

I thought about joining the BSA years ago but having looked at your website, it seemed to be an organisation that arranged competitions, not a serious organisation that lobbied on behalf of our rights as spearo's and actually represented us on a national level. I'm simply stating how you appear online, this may well not reflect your actual operations. I've looked over your site again this week - not much has changed.

What there is a lot of on your website is information about competitions. In my opinion, competitive spearfishing is extremely removed from what 99% of spearo's practice or indeed want - the idea of getting together with a load of guys and heading out with the aim of killing as many fish as humanly possible to see who wins is as abhorrent as it is prehistoric.

This is not what normal spearo's practice. If you read the forums, you will see hundreds of posts on ethics, self limiting catches and generally being ethical and environmentally aware at every step of the way.

Spearfishing is potentially facing an uphill battle against ethical objections and environmental concerns - I am worried that with the BSA as 'our' mouth piece, you have little hope of ever raising valid objections against people who question the ethics of our past-time. Note, I'm not calling it a sport, as only the BSA seems to regard spearfishing as a sport. It's like McDonalds promoting healthy eating or supporting a vegan charity. By your very nature it's self-defeating.

One thing I have noticed is that looking at the 2012 Competition Results list then looking through your list of key committee members on the website, they are all competitive spearo's.

Competitive spearo's probably make up less than 1% of the spearo's in the UK, yet comprise 100% of the BSA committee - there is something seriously wrong there. If the BSA is run by competitive spearo's you run the serious risk of appearing to be nothing more than a self-serving old boys club who have awarded themselves the title of "the united voice for all spearfishers in the United Kingdom".

Personally, I don't feel at all comfortable about this as I struggle to see what the BSA has in common with me, as a person and as a spearo.

My questions are these:

What does the BSA actually do on behalf on spearo's?
Why don't you publish or promote your lobbying activities?
Exactly why are competitions so important to the BSA and how does this benefit spearfishing in the UK?

Basically, I want you to give me a reason to join! I would love to help support spearfishing in the UK but I worry about what your primary goal is - is it promoting competitions or is it actually protecting the rights of spearo's in the UK?

I'm not trying to upset or anger anyone so please don't take it that way - I'd just like some clear answers.

All the best,

Mike

 

[kevind]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Hi Mike

No worries, I have no problems with answering your questions.

1. "What does the BSA actually do on behalf on spearo's?"
I mentioned part of that in my previous post but it was a bit wordy and lets face it, no-one reads past the first few lines of a long post
Here it is again:
Our current fisheries officer and others have done some excellent work in the past protecting our rights (recent examples: EU regulations prohibiting the use of projectiles, a Sussex sea fisheries bylaw, and a potential bylaw in South Wales). They have also done excellent work in building positive relationships with fisheries managers, conservation bodies, angling groups etc

At our last AGM a new set of Aims and Objectives was voted in (British Spearfishing Association Home) and as a spin off from that, we have other new initiatives that are in the pipeline. The purpose of this thread was to post announcements about these initiatives at the right time. This thread is therefore meant (over time) to provide answers to this very question.

2. "Why don't you publish or promote your lobbying activities?"
That is part of what this thread was meant to be about. Our first news post was to give information about the MCZ's and what that means to spearfishing in the UK. We hope to continue to keep you informed with further developments as they arise. You are right though, this work seems to have been done in the background and so in future we hope to inform people more.

3. "Exactly why are competitions so important to the BSA and how does this benefit spearfishing in the UK?"
Competition is the common social bond that has been instrumental in starting and maintaining the association since its founding in 1958. I really don't want this turning into another competition debate though as its been done to death on this and other forums and neither side will convince the other so I don't want it to detract from the purpose of why we started this thread.

Lastly you ask why the Association has so many competitive members on its committee. The committee is made up of volunteers who care enough to put their time and efforts into contributing. To be honest I don't want to be a secretary of anything and would far rather just go fishing that writing letters and putting out fires on the internet. There are always lots of people who are happy to let someone else do the work but someones got to do it and that's why I accepted the post. Anyone in the association could have made themselves available for a role but the committee we have is just those who put their hand up and were prepared to do the work.

Best Regards
Kevin

 

[BarnacleBoy]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

I 100% concur with Broseidon. My exact views too. If spearfishing is to have a lobbying voice to protect us from uneducated decision making, then is needs to be representative of the activity as a whole and and the people who partake in it. Like Broseidon, I strongly disagree with competitive spearfishing. I think it damages the name of spearfishing and will do us no favours going forward. If competitions are the BSA's main activity and they are 'our' main voice, then I fear we are on a slippery slope to a bad place.

Spearfishing has to be one of the kindest, most sustainable and most environmentally friendly way of taking animals from the sea. Competitions strike me as the complete opposite.

 

[eric aqua]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

As a non competitive member of the BSA these days and a committee member I have been following this debate with some interest. If you really are concerned about the future take a look at this article from the BSA magazine “Crystal Clear” and you will see what the more experienced members have been trying to draw attention too over the years. By the time we have finished arguing amongst ourselves there will be no habitat left to fish.

April 17th 2005 Bognor a dive to stick in the memory, we had suffered quite a few dives that year in the cold water of early spring with few fish and bad viz, this was the first day the water had felt warmer and with the viz at twenty foot it held a lot of promise. We found the Bream quite quickly spotting their moon beds dug into the chalk from the surface. The sea was alive with fish the smaller bream were doing the digging fanning the bottom to create the hollows and the bigger fish moving in to lay their eggs or fight over the right to. Undulated Rays were laying around the outskirts of the beds feeding on the worms and other small crustaceans disturbed by the bream along with vast shoals of Pollack up to two kilos drifting above the scene. As we lay looking at this panorama with Cuckoo Wrasse nosing around us the Bass came through in shoals some weighing in at eight pounds. We ended the day with a couple of good Bass each and two bream of over two kilos and left feeling good at seeing the sea so alive with fish and with intensions of returning a week later on better tides to take some specimen fish.

April 24th 2005 the sea was calm and we had started at first light under the all adage that the early diver catches the fish. As we pulled the boat up onto the promenade two pair trawlers could be seen towing out to sea at an angle along side the main reef less than a mile out. Slipping into the water 30 mins later a scene of total devastation could be seen below us in the crystal clear water, no fish could be seen in our field of vision the bream beds so prolific the week before were wrecked, the edges of the beautifully dug pits had been dragged down and large boulders had been dumped into the middle of them. Torn weed lay about the bottom and all that remained were a few very small bream trying to rebuild their nests. We followed after the trawlers that were now some two miles ahead finding many small Bass of about 200 grams floating dead on the surface having popped out of the now full nets. I can not be sure if it was the same trawlers but a pair were caught and fined the following year having been found with 14 tons of undersize bass and bream in their catch.
Just a last word on this subject that is close to my heart I think that nothing should be towed within ten miles of the shore especially in the months of March April and May, the trawlers are killing a whole ecosystem with their greed.

 

[barny02]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Hey guys have been reading the thread ! yes we are under threat for sure the world is changing fact . It is a true shame that its getting so heated . I for one love spearing but love freediving , I have had many fab dives with NO fish . I have seen the loss of fish over the last few decades. Total respect for the BSA but things have to change ! for spearfishing to survive we may have to change big comps may have to go to protect spearing. Trawlers , Net fishing is killing the oceans but the government seem slow to take on board what happening. A senior spearo ( old fart ) putting my view forward. The BSA have put a lot into spearing over the years but hey maybe its the time for change and be pro active towards comps , keep the records but drop the comps.

 

[Paul Smith]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Hi All,
Many of you have asked the type of question
"what does the BSA represent or stand for"
My answer is - join the BSA & you will have a vote, you will be a decision maker & have the opportunity to volunteer to be a committee member; whether you are competitive or not - all are welcome.

 

[jerseymike]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Spearfishing engenders passion in most who ty it. It is this passion that we share that we must use to best effect. I note the strong views and I think there is good reason to look carefully at what we do and how it may be perceived by those who would choose to stop us. We all have different ideas about what we should do and how to best preserve the future of our sport or our hobby if you prefer, but we need to find common ground and we need to work together. The BSA is the only body that currently represents spearfishing on any level in the UK and whilst they may currently only represent a relatively small number of mainly competitive spearfishers, I feel the members do have a great deal of experience and have the future interests of spearfishing at heart. That is not to say that that all is perfect and that some changes would not be beneficial. I would suggest that historically the main focus of the BSA has been competitive spearfishing and selection of the national team, but I feel that there is now a genuine move toward making some changes, including perhaps becoming more representative of the remaining silent majority of UK spearfishers, which would include non competitive divers. If this is the case, this can only be a good thing.

 

[grantl]

British Spearfishing Association Announcements

Mike / Matt - good posts guys, couldn't agree more and it saved me bashing out a lengthy post of my own

 

[grantl]

British Spearfishing Association Announcements

Kevin - out of interest, if you are able to say, how many members does the club currently have and what was the peak membership number and when was that?
Just being nosey really

 

[BSA]

re: BSA MCZ News & Discussion

Chairman's report Dated 20-10-2012

Firstly, please accept my apologies for my earlier pre-season enthusiasm for this coming year, what a wash out this summer was. Will it ever get better? Even the most enthusiastic observes would not imagine a quick reverse back to good summer weather in the next few years. Perhaps this really is the result of the global warming; the summer jet stream is now sitting too far to the right allowing low pressure after low pressure to run through the English Channel instead of being directed up above Scotland, when it was sitting further left. I am sorry to be such a pessimist but the recent poor summers is starting to grind everyone down and it’s difficult to imagine how the BSA is going to function in its present form. Membership numbers have been falling over the last few years and the lack of fresh faces joining our clubs willing to help out with running nationals is starting to show. With the old guard ageing it will not be long before there are only a couple of clubs with the manpower to run Nationals. Perhaps the time has come to have a good look at where we are and where we want to be going. I believe the present direction is unsustainable, competitive spearfishing never did manage to bridge the gap in recruiting new members after being cut loose by (BSAC) British Sub Aqua Club. Now BSAC are sliding in another knife with consulting with other (BUSA) British Underwater Sports Association members, the underwater hockey and fin swimming associations, with the purpose of persuading them into leaving BUSA and us, the BSA, a blood-sport with the promises of future sport grants. If or when they leave BUSA, the cost of being affiliated to CMAS will have to be funded on our own. That’s if we can, or still want to enter teams into CMAS events. Even though BSAC are trying to rejoin the CMAS group, they are not prepared to accommodate spearfishing as a blood sport, although CMAS fully support spearfishing as an international competitive sport.
The lack of a team manager does not blend well for the future. The BSA had to run an appeal to raise funds to enter a GB team, the number of members donating was low. What does that say? I seriously believe the time has come where the BSA needs to ask its self a number of questions about its aims and objectives because at present, it’s all been about competitive spearfishing.
Should the BSA change its aims and objectives? So it’s more representative of non competitive spearfishing like the lads who just what to catch a fish for the pot. At this moment in time the UK government recognise the BSA as the organization representing spearfishing, but we don’t. We just manage nationals and select members to represent Great Britain in CMAS international, that’s it. We don’t offer any training in the sport or safe diving practice we just agree a competitive national calendar and sporting rules and wonder why we are not attracting new members. I apologise to James Thoburn our magazine editor for releasing my end of season report early. James has done a fantastic job with the magazine, one of the very few fresh faces over the last couple of years. I really hope he stays on. But I wanted our members to hear my thoughts long before the AGM in the hope I can stimulate a debate about the direction of the BSA so that there may be some positive outcomes at the AGM. I hope members decide to broaden our aims and objectives so that future club activities are more focused on recruiting, training and on safe diving practice and more social with a less competitive format. Anyway I will not be holding my breath waiting for a change. I will give one more year as Chairman if members want to move the BSA forward. If not I will step down and leave the status quo with those who wish it.
In rapping up this year I would like to thank young Joe Janice for taking on the role as team captain out in Vigo, Spain for the CMAS World championships. How that came about I suspect was as much of a surprise to Joe as well as it was for me, anyway well done Joe. My congratulations to the GB teams twelfth position and Kev Dailys nineteenth place, plus wining the senior championships. Well done son goes to Chas for winning the junior title and finishing fifteenth overall. A big thank you goes out to my committee and competition organisers for their past years thankless work.

NEW AIMS AND OBJECTIVES​

• To support all forms of legal spearfishing.
• To lobby for spearfishing rights, anti pollution legislation, and conservation of fish species in a good and realistic manner.
• To participate and make representation for any Government agency policy making as well as the subsequent consultation processes which may affect, either directly or indirectly spearfishing in the UK.
• Improving the public’s image of spearfishing
• To discourage the catching or taking from the sea any undersized or restricted species.
• To report the taking of fish by illegal means.
• To encourage and develop the practice of spearfishing.
• To discourage spearfishing using artificial breathing aids.
• Administering and managing the British national spearfishing records database.
• To decide annually on the British Championships for classes as agreed in a legal and sustainable way, ensuring all fish caught are not wasted and go to a good cause.
• To coach and develop a national squad to represent Great Britain in CMAS international events.
• To encourage clubs to recruit members and train them in safe spearfishing techniques and safe use of the sea.
• To have and maintain a code of conduct.

Kind Regards

BSA Chairman

Steven Mullineaux