BTV (hands free) dry tips and techniques please

[mzatanoskas]

Hey there,

I've been lurking on this site for a while now and was following this thread with interest, as being able to do BTV has been on my list of cool things I want to learn how to do for some time now.

I can sometimes equalise hands free with a unblocked nose frenzel type manouver although only out of water, not inverted and it's very slow. I don't know if I'll ever get it good enough to use in water but I'll give some more practice.

I was just wondering how is everyone else in this thread getting along? Any improvement? I'm a little worried that this is one of those things that you just can do, but can't really teach yourself to do (effectively anyway).

Also the "crackling", "roaring" sound and actual equalization seem to be independent with me:

Out of water I can equalize easily by swallowing and I get crackling but no roaring.

By flexing my throat/tongue muscles I can get crackling but only occasional equalisation and no roaring.

By closing my eyes + flexing some other muscle I'm not aware of I can get a little roaring but no equalisation.

Finally by yawning I get crackling, roaring + equalisation.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips, it seems that I have been too focussed on straining muscles and contorting my face so I'll try a slightly more zen approach from now on.

 

[azapa]

some encouragement and tips in this post:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/736494-post10.html

 

[Morten_kv]

By reading this thread I just discovered that I (might?) is doing BTV some times (dry)... and never knew it. I have the click and roaring sound of breathing and can hold it for a few seconds - cant wait to try it wet! Thank you all for contributing.

 

[mortenkv]

YES! Did it... I was in the local pool - and did handfree EQ to 4.9m (was lying with my head to the bottom.) I have discovered I more or less do the same manouvre when I EQ in planes...

There is no "push" or "click" - it just gives a feeling of not having to do Frenzel...

Im amazed... thank you all - cant wait to see how far this will take me!

Morten

 

[ezequiel]

thank you guys for all the descriptions and excersices,
I think I got it!!, I waiting for this weekend to go and test in the water.
Until now, I been doing only vasalva, I been trying to learn frenzel,
but I think I got it wrong, and why excersicing (many hours watching tv ) , I started to hear the crack on my ears, but only 1 time, and the muscle was jointly with my epiglotis, so cound breath while doing, been trying and trying,
Today, Im able to do it, I hear the crack, and while holding the muscles in position breath
and feel the "rooar", nicee, i didnt want to let it go!!!, just in case i for get how to do it again!!,,, been doing in now for more than 30 minutes, I fill push upward the back of the throat .

will let you know how I will do it in the water ...

 

[mortenkv]

New hands free PB

6.0m FIM
- in 7 degrees... The water in Denmark is getting cold...

Morten

 

[azapa]

nice one Mortey. Head up?

Some news on my quest. Some you may not want to know: my ears now clear when I burp! If they did before I never noticed. I also managed a crackle or two at -12m the other day just by swallowing.

Still, I am genetically not apt at the whole business, I'm sure my "groaning-grunting" Frenzel will see me deeper though.

Post news as/when it happens.

 

[mortenkv]

Head down Didnt even tried if head up would get me deeper... will do next time


Morten

 

[laminar]

I think sharks will like your grunting and groaning, Simon.

Let me know how that works out for you....

 

[Fondueset]

I did 30m hands free at Das Blu Hole. Maybe could do better but I felt compelled to start experimenting with mouthfill. Equalizing gets kinda interesting down there.

 

[cebaztian]

My way

As mentioned, BTV is not a way to equalize, just a way to open the eustachian tube, and if there is a positive pressure from below (valsalva or Frenzel) equalization will happen, far easier than with normal techniques.

Do the following more or less at the same time:

1) Tuck in your head, pull your chin down (not always needed)
2) Have some air in you mouth.
3) Make sure to be relaxed inside (throat/soft palatte e t c)
4) Push jaw slightly outward.
5) Smile slightly.
6) Keep your mouth closed while starting a yawn. Or pretend to blow smokerings. Sort of widening everything at the back of the mouth/throat.
7) Do a short small blow through the nose.
8) Pull the two muscles on each side of the uvula towards each other.

This is my way of doing it, how to train it is a slightly other issue, where the best advice would be to try to swallow with open mouth.

Sebastian

PS Or just do #8 ;-)
PS 2. If all else fails do only #5

 

[azapa]

My way

As mentioned, BTV is not a way to equalize, just a way to open the eustachian tube, and if there is a positive pressure from below (valsalva or Frenzel) equalization will happen, far easier than with normal techniques.

One of the best reminders on the thread Cebaztian. Thanks.

 

[mateusz h2o]

i have been able to do this for a while i didnt really know when i learned it and i ddidnt even know it had a name but i use it everuytime i to to the nountains. i can decomress but i could never compress this way. i always used the holding nose4 method (not sure which one that is) i use the same method of hands free coming up from my dive but going down i could never master this. maybe more practise.

esentially its a fake yawn

to me it feels like i slightly move my jaw forward. and my adams apple drops down. it works both if i drop the apple then extend my jaw or if i move my jaw then drop the apple. so try just doing those 2 movements and you might have some luck.

 

[Judge]

I wonder for those of you who can do BTV, do you do it more frequently as compared to Frenzel or Valsalva? I seem to equalise more frequently when doing the BTV. I assume I'm just not equalising as 'completely' as when I do the Frenzel. Is there a way to make myself equalise more competely with BTV?

I equalize BTV. I found I did it automatically when I was learning to dive. I have managed to teach a few people this but I haven't found it easy... or maybe I should say they haven't found it easy.

Yes, I equalize far more often using BTV than if I use my hands. In fact when I dive it is a constant motion... just clearing and clearing as I go down. It is not that it is a chore or entails effort. If I allow the pressure to build then sometimes the equalization won't happen and I have to use my fingers or stop descending. I have found on a good day I can hold the muscles in a certain way and there is a continual equalizing as I go down. It doesn't happen that often.

As mentioned above, I think it is more an act of opening the tubes rather than forcing air through the tubes. So when you clear with your fingers you are probably slightly over equalizing and thats why it feels so complete.

I can't add much to the "how to" as it is covered quite well. However when my son learnt it he worked at it hard, trying different muscles and multiple dives and he got one ear to clear. That give him an understanding of what it was he did and within a short amount of time he could do it well. He dives plus 50m using BTV now.

Judge

 

[sciencemike]

The problem i have when doing BTV is that I have sinus pressure. When doing normal EQ i alleviate the sinus pressure and simultaneously remove ear pressure. But, when doing BTV my sinuses gradually build and build pressure until it becomes painful at about 20m. Then im forced to do a regular hand based clear. Anyone else experience this side effect of BTV, well not side effect but its alleviated by the normal clear.

It feels like a sharp pain gradually building just above my left eye. Then creaks when i pressurized it. Then, Im good for the remainder of my dive.

 

[sayNO2o2]

hi im ant (judges son from the post 2 from above) i never use my hands but know that feeling of pain above my left eye. i get that only when i my diet is bad.
i studied what i was eating and found what was blocking my sinus and now i dont get blocks. it was not just the normal bad stuff that was doing it. it was mostly preservatives. so i cut back to only 7 meat pies per day and now its all good.

 

[wet]

i never use my hands but know that feeling of pain above my left eye.

Often its the Para Nasal Sinus (PNS) above the left eye, rather than the right one. This picture indicates why:
Airheads Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week

Also, this condition is not new, since human ancestors 1,900,000 years ago also had larger left PNS. One possible explanation:

"... as so often is the case in modern human crania, the left frontal sinus is well developed and the right hardly at all" p.65 Leakey & Walker 1993 "The Nariokotome He skeleton."

Why?? Did they float on the back with the left part of the head+body more upward than the right, and perhaps submerging with the right arm first? MV

2007 Visualization Challenge Winners -- Lester 317 (5846): 1858 Figure F1 -- Science
2007 Visualization Challenge Winners -- Lester 317 (5846): 1858 -- Science

 

[sayNO2o2]

well looks like my maths teacher was right. i am an airhead.:duh

 

[azapa]

i def. get more trouble above left eye too. fascinating!

 

[ahofbauer]

Hi People!

In my experience, it gets easier to EQ
(whatever method I may be using) if I
comply with two easy rules:

First.
If I trust my lower maxilar forwards
(and maybe wiggle it slightly from side
to side), any method gives better results.

Two.
Never incur in a "EQ debt"
A EQ-debt is when You have an overdue EQ.
That will, almost under any conditions, make
it harder to EQ properly.

Therefore:
Pre-EQ before beginning Your dive and go on
rhythmically during the whole descent.
The required power will be very low if You
have no "debt" to pay back.

Another good thing is to trust Your lower jaw
forwards and wiggle it from side to side until
You Yawn several times before diving... like
remembering Your body how to do it.