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[crazyfrenchmen]

Re: Backlash by US Representitives

Originally posted by Cliff Etzel
I was made aware of this in a recent post to the Freedivelist by Roger Yazbeck, President of Picasso America who is spearheading this movement.

Can someone direct me to that post? The law of the market are simple, if you can sell the stuff, they'll send it to you. There have to be a reason behind that. That's the big problem with post, people tend to interpret everything like the bible. Picasso and DB have a long history of partnership (buying banners) hi think, so they would be VERY stoopid to piss off the community.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Hi everyone!

I spent a good deal of time since Friday on the phone to various people distributing kit in the US and wanted to speak directly to people such as Roger Yazbeck of Picasso America.

Firstly, here is a portion of the message Cliff is refering to:

For the past days we've been holding meetings and conferences in order to deal with the situation and very shortly, we'll be coming up with a formula that will eliminate the problem in North America as well as internationally.

I was made aware of this from one of the major US distributors on Friday and it seems that it is very real. Several of the US Freediving (and Scuba) Distributors have been holding urgent meetings to try and put pressure on their European Manufacturers to stop supplying DiveInn. It seems though, that whilst we have acted as a catalyst to this process, many of this Distributors already were wondering what to do about DiveInn.

I am in talks with DiveInn to make sure supplies are protected, but this is now at a level much higher than we at DB can control. The US market is very large and the Manufacturers are smart so know that if they lose sales in the US, they will gain them locally via the DB Shop or DiveInn directly. However, because the US market is so large (we're not just talking Freediving kit now) the distributors may be able to exert a large enough amount of pressure to see brands being removed from DiveInn's stock. This is a direct result of US Distributors trying to protect their business as well as not truly understanding how globalisation works. :head

This whole argument went round the book industry when Amazon.com launched. Bookstores worried that they would be driven out of business by Amazon.com but in reality is turned out there is enough space in marketplace for everyone - in fact Amazon.com helped drive book sales up.

The next month or so will be critical as it will show whether the US Distributors have been able to exert enough pressure on the European Manufacturers to cause us, and more specifically the Freediving Consumers, problems. We will keep you abreast of what goes on. :duh

 

[crazyfrenchmen]

Hi,
i just subscribe to freedivelist. I didn't know it exist :duh Could someone be so kind as too post the mail here or send it to me at here
thanks!

Admin Note: i've removed your email address and added a link to the forum email system so that we can keep your privacy. Never post your email on the public board!

 

[Jay Styron]

HANG IN THERE

Unfortunatly just another case of capitolism at work. Just like when the dive shops started whinning because people started ordering from mailorder suppliers. At work we carry dealerships for some of the scuba vendors so I know the mark up on their items. It's sickening to go in a store and see what they're charging. A lot of times over 100% mark up If I can get the same product at a better price you bet I'm going to do it!:duh Keep up the good work and don't let them get down. Maybe then they'll realise that their products aren't made of gold:yack .
Jay

 

[scott]

Ugly Americans

I'm appalled at the U.S. Distributors trying to stifle competition. I always thought Americans took pride in being the leaders in free enterprise and capitalism.

Scott

 

[crazyfrenchmen]

Description, info

Hi,
i just went to the shop to get some booties/socks. I realise that there's not description for most of the stuff. I will be great everyone could go there and write about stuff they own in user comment.

 

[Frost]

I have a suggestion regarding Roger’s position. SWITCH BRANDS. Nothing changes the mind of a business faster than losing customers to direct competitors. After being disgusted by the prices he’s trying to charge for gear, I got in touch with the guys on the East Coast that sell Omer products (piratescuba.com) as well as the NA distributor (Technosport, Inc.). I use all Omer gear and have to say that the quality of the equipment and the level the attention I have received are outstanding. I have never owned a single piece of Picasso gear so this judgement may be a bit biased. However, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that I will never own anything but Omer. I have a 5mm SuperStretch and was in the Chesapeake this past weekend hunting and in Hatteras, NC last weekend (BTW w/ the NA Omer distributor and an owner of a shop that sells Omer gear; see if Roger goes out with his customers to make sure the gear is solid). After using the suit the past two weekends and hunting with guys that represent or sell for the Company, I have no idea why any one would deal w/ Picasso. I pay 20 – 30% less for Omer products then I would have for Picasso. Are you kidding me??!! I still can’t understand why spearos aren’t making the switch in mass. Of course, this is my opinion but I don’t think you can go wrong with Omer or its people.

 

[andrsn]

frost,

i was just out in 46F water in no.cal this past weekend w/ my 5mil superstretch. the only parts that got cold were those not covered by the suit.

andrsn

 

[crazyfrenchmen]

Beuchat

Please, dont start flaming picasso, they do make good product. As for the 46 degree water, i use a two piece 3.5mm beuchat here in winter and summer and i never get cold under one hour. Maybe my natural insulation has something ti di with that.:duh

 

[Erik]

I have dealt with Picasso, OMER, and Dive Inn, before the DBlue connection. Roger was helpful, but my 5mm suit cost me almost 1000$ Can. by the time I got it up here. I have dealt with mark at Technosport as well (OMER) and he was also very helpful, AND gave me smokin' deals on the gear I have bought from him. Dive Inn was quick and cheap, plus for some reason I have not been charged so much at the border. OMER gear is equal to, and superior to some Picasso gear in my opinion.
I like to support local business, but if that local business is holding me over a barrel because they hold a monopoly on a product, then I go elsewhere.
In Canada we've lost a lot due to the free trade agreement, and this is a typical reaction when those with all the power start feeling threatened....they try to stop any attempt by the smaller country or the average guy in the street from being competitive.
Come on Roger, when you're selling masks for 99.99$ US, what do you expect? If I can get the same mask(for all intents) for 17$, where should I go?
Good luck Stephan and Cliff, I will continue to support your magazine and store.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

I agree with crazyfrenchman - this is not the place to start picking apart the quality of any of the products. That is not the issue - all the major brands are well respected - but everyone has their own tastes in kit.

Service and quality are top notch from all US Distributors - the issue here is more of globalisation and whether internet store such as ours are a good thing.

Let's keep the conversation on track!

 

[SThompson]

This situation is really sad in my opinion. A market should be competative.......not monopolized. It seems to me that the this is more about artificially inflating prices to line pockets....

I am curious if Roger realizes how much business Piccasso has to gain (or lose) because of this issue. I am a good micro example to think about. I live in an area that has no local Picasso distributor. Before DeeperBlue I didn't buy any Picasso product because I didn't have access to them. In the last month alone I have spent around $165 with DB - and I have been setting money aside for a Picasso wetsuit in the next couple months. This is largely due to the favorable reviews that they have been given on DB and the fact the DB has given me access to the product. Without both I would not even have considered Picasso - let alone called Roger or someone else to help me.

The people at DiveInn are friendly, knowledgeable, prompt - i.e. everything I want in an online shop. If I wasn't buying online at DiveInn I would have to buy online somewhere else.........are they going to try to make me buy from a N. American hosted online shop and inflate the prices? Don't gouge your customer or you won't have one. Simply put, if they blackball the DB shop I will refuse to buy thier product. Price and service are king to the consumer and if I can get that at ANY shop that's where I will go whether it's in the US, Canada, Spain, or wherever.

Probably 80% of buyers will buy from a physical dive shop because of the service & ability to try out the merchandise. I sincerely hope that Picasso doesn't throw away the other 20% of sales because one sales rep is too short sighted about his pocket and not what is good for the company as a whole.

Kudos to DB & DiveInn for what they have done for the community!

 

[A Brownsword]

Re: HANG IN THERE

Originally posted by Jay Styron
Unfortunatly just another case of capitolism at work.

This isn't captialism at work, this is exactly the opposite. Trying to prevent alternative retailers from doing business is protectionist and anti-competitive behaviour. We don't have to stand for it, and my next order from DiveInn is hopefully already on its way.

 

[laminar]

Opportunity

If Roger Yazbeck and other company don't sit up and take notice of what their potential customers want (decent price, good service, quality product and satisfaction), someone else will find a business opportunity....


Pete

 

[cjndiver]

diveinn

Your diveinn store is the best. Great products at terrific prices. I get great info from all the staff. Recently, I was directed by the staff to purchase a less expensive product that would better suit my needs. Where else would you get such service? Long live the store. The practice of not buying through a N America dealer is not a new deal. A friend of mine, who owns a dive shop in the sates, gets all his stock from Central America through his other shop in Hondorous. Its much cheaper that the North American supplier. He is able to provide to his students gear at greatly reduced prices. Like I said, this is not a new practice, its just more in the open when its on the net.

Long Live the Deeper Blue Dive Store

 

[Stephan Whelan]

The support from consumers has been tremendous over the past week or so. In fact i've only received one "disgruntled" email and dozens of supportive emails.

It is an ongoing issue that will never really disappear, but the combined Scuba and Freediving market is huge and plenty of space available for numerous players - so the DB Shop will be around for a while - don't worry!

Of course, remember that the store will only truly survive if people buy from it so if you see a good deal or get good service, tell you friends about it and send them to http://shop.deeperblue.net !

 

[kirehe]

on the north american war

I just think it is sad when local businesses respond negatively to global competition. Although they might loose costumers, they might also benefit some, for example, people might order from them when Divninn is out of stock (which unfortunatly occurs sometimes).

Either way, I understand the concern expressed by Roger. That is, however, the way business works, and his prices are really high, mostly above what a regular hobby freediver can afford.

Finally, let me just say that this is the first time I have found an Internet store that acutally beats local stores, and it beats them pretty good too. Thus, I hope that Diveinn will continue to exist, as buyers all around the world would be very upset and a lot poorer if they closed.

Erik - currently waiting for his order to arrive

 

[Longfins]

It seems freediving isn't the only sport to experience the local vs. global gear price competition.

In the current issue of Climbing magazine (June 15, 2002) the editorial is titled, "The High Price of Climbing: Are dot.coms spelling doom for climbing shops?"

Here's the link
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/editorial00.html

It's a different point of view, but the dilemma is the same.
Enjoy!

Peter S.

 

[thin_air]

another interesting point

longfins, thanks for the article, brought a good point of view into the argument

ok, what about those of us who dont have local stores, for me, if i want anything, the local stores dont even carry any brands of freediving equipment, i probably have to get a ride from my 'rents and then go to the stores in toronto, (an hour away)

dot.com stores are the only options for me, until i can drive, and then the market will open up more, but dot.com is the way the market is moving

funny, i remember reading something about when catalog sales were introduced, local stores were furious because they lost business to the catalogs, yet the world somehow managed to sort itself out, i think that it will only take a little bit of time and the balance will be re-established,


ps. these are opinions from someone with no business experience at all, just what i think is gonna happen

 

[NorthDiver]

Originally posted by Erik

the free trade agreementErik Y.

- which is consumer-friendly is what the european union is about.... So all banning flaming and .... is worth nothing as long as DiveInn is based in Spain -- europe....

Don`t worry be happy