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Carlos Coste's record invalid?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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pehtran

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2003
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Exactly my though, Rigdvr. That was such a low blow. I guess it proves it is realy AN AMATEUR organisation after all. In all aspects. Miha
 

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
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Don't really want to stick up for Sebastien as I agree that that quote was way out of line HOWEVER I seriously believe that this was a language error. Professional as in not being paid for the job, not officially working as an athlete and all that rather than professional on a behaviour level - I reckon

I agree with AIDA that if Carlos broke the rules he shouldn't get the record but why the hell it took them six weeks to work that one out is beyond me. Hardly fair to only tell him ages after he has left any facility whereby he might try again. If the judges can't do the job on site then what is the point in sending them!

Sam
 

CEngelbrecht

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2002
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---
Carlos,
Come to FREE, we don't talk to people like this.
---

David, you p*** me off when you hurl out something like that, it ain't that simple.

I'll go out on the line here and say that if FREE had the influence that AIDA has, and AIDA had the infuence that FREE has, it would most likely be the FREE name bearing the wrath of credibility of freediving management pt. I'm saying that size makes it difficult to conduct a perfect game at all times. Also, FREE was formed with the errors of AIDA in mind, and it's always a hell of a lot easier to complain about mistakes than correcting them to the best possible scenario.

"One avoids mistakes by experience, but one can only gain experience...by making mistakes!" (Danish proverb)

My point is that it won't solve Carlos' problem or anyone's problem with AIDA pt. to run off to a competing fraction or to make your own. This is sports governing we're talking about; there can be only one! If there's manure in the pen, you grab a showel in stead of arguing about whose cow dropped it. If AIDA's program is really so far out, then gain the influence where you can and agitate your case. Accept if the process is long and tiring, and accept if you're voted down, that's the process. That's why I think some of the leading people in FREE should run for the AIDA board, in stead of keeping up with their, excuse me, looser's project. Some of the minds in FREE could be used in AIDA.

Again, the story is that a record has been nulled from watching a video long time after. Fricking pity for the athlete, but if that's the call, that's the call. Some forum has to have the final saying about approving a record, and in AIDA it's the president and the responsilbe of records, aparently.
A few years back, a FREE record attempt (by Dalkilic?) was nulled from a small error seen on the video. The difference is that this DQ was done on the same day and gave the chance for a 2nd try, which is what people complain didn't happen for Carlos; his record was nulled long time after without the chance of a retry. But really, it's easy to do this at the FREE attempt when the top FREE management happens to be present at the actual attempt! AIDA works with record attempts all over the world simultaneously. And if AIDA have the rule that the top judging body has to approve every world record from video, I'm sure there was a very a good reason for including it. This is records we're talking about.

And the whole nine yards...

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 

ApneaBlue

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2002
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Originally posted by CEngelbrecht
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Carlos,
Come to FREE, we don't talk to people like this.
---
.... This is records we're talking about.

And the whole nine yards...

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

Forget the record or whether it was nulled, vetoed, or whater you want to call it. I am talking about the attitude of Nagel....Dude, Nagel is the PRESIDENT of AIDA...the Head Honcho, Big Wig, Chief, King, Whater...The man who represents the sport we love. Even if he is carrying feelings because Carlos writes a offensive letter, being the Prezz of AIDA he should cary a certain level of proffesionalizm, hold his tongue, and reply in a respectful manner. This is all I am saying. The personality and attitude of people representing a certain organization says alot about the organization itself.

Chris, sorry for pisssssing you off but this is just how i feel.
 
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neshamah

CFD Group
Jun 2, 2003
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hi

Maybe Carlos is not a professional athelte as someone say but only one thing I can say- He is- a serious and good person- y con pocos recursos ha podido lograr cosas grandes .

saludos
Daniel.
____________________________________________

Those who wait on the Lord will never be disappointed
 
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CEngelbrecht

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2002
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Chris, sorry for pisssssing you off but this is just how i feel.
---

All right, but the other way around I don't feel Nagel crossed the line. His language reflected the language Carlos gave to him, I'm thinking I'd have replied the same way. That's how I feel.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 

rigdvr

Not Available in Stores
May 28, 2002
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Originally posted by CEngelbrecht
All right, but the other way around I don't feel Nagel crossed the line. His language reflected the language Carlos gave to him, I'm thinking I'd have replied the same way. That's how I feel.
Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

But not when you are representing a global organization with your opinion...I dont believe the language barrier had anything to do with the intent of the words. Individuals act like that when they are attacked but NOT industry leaders...:head I think these guys need to hire a PR person to deal with situations instead of letting one man fire off at the mouth.
 
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CEngelbrecht

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2002
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Look, AIDA can't hire a PR employee, AIDA works through voluntary forces in the freediving community, AIDA has no budget as such. Guys like Nagel, Baumann, Krack & Chapuis pee in their wetsuits just like you and me, Nagel himself writes that they are just amateurs by comparison. I prefer to take that into consideration when I critisize the AIDA work, the rest of you sound like they're the IOC, for crying out loud. I'm not saying to close your eyes when the people in the organization screw up (like in the 90's), but a better balance, please.

I still can't see what Nagel has done wrong with his wording to Carlos. I think he was entitled and I think he's right, Carlos was out of line. Is this one of those language-cultural variables across the ocean?

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 

ApneaBlue

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2002
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I sense some hypertension in the air :D Take it easy Chris. This is definately not worth busting a blood vessle over.
 

rigdvr

Not Available in Stores
May 28, 2002
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Chris, seriously, take a step back and look at it. This is not 2 individuals arguing. This is an organization. Ever dealt with a company that put you down personally when a problem arises? If I voided my warranty on my truck by modifying the engine but I didnt bother to read the warranty I would probably react negatively to them but I doubt Mitsubishi would reply by slamming me! The proper response goes along the lines of..."were sorry that you are experiencing trouble with your engine. According to your warranty such modifications are prohibited and by voiding the warranty repairs must be the risk of the consumer...blah, blah, blah. Let us know if we can be of further assistance. Mr. Mitsubishi." They wouldnt say..."why dont youread the warranty stupid?"

I understand they are not professionals but shouldnt he conduct himself as one? After all, the way he adresses himself... Sebastian Nagel, President of AIDA sounds damn prfessional to me
 
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fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
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I think there are 3 facts that AIDA International must clarify.
1)Why the AIDA judges said that the attempt was OK, if not?
In the own Herbert words he said that in his last record attempt, the judges told him the mistakes during the attempt and give him a new try. The expenses of a world record attempt are too huge for wasting the chance.
2)Why did take that long time to get the final decision? BTW it wil be nice that an International Freediving Organization informs to the athlete that his record was not accepted, instead of just put it on the web.
3)Why is neccesary to have 2 judges if they can't make any decision?. It will be less expensive to the athlete to send just 1 judge to measure the rope, seal the bottom cam, etc. and send it to Dieter and Sebastien for final approval.
An International association must work for the freedivers and not against them. And also treat them with respect.
 
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Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
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I can understand the emotional reactions of both Carlos and Sebastien. Carlos has worked his ass off to get the attempt made and ratified. Sebastien takes tons of abuse (at least on the internet) as far as I have seen in the last few years.
But I think it would be better if the leader of a worldwide organisation could exercise a little restraint and take the higher road, verbally.
If I was Carlos, I'd be pissed off.
carlos, don't let it depress you too much. Keep diving: you are a big inspiration to many freedivers.
Salud,
Erik Y.
 
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flyboy748

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2003
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I was truly surprised to hear that the attempt was invalidated. I can only imagine what Carlos went through! Very tough indeed.

Initially upon reading the letter from Mr. Nagel I thought as well that the wording was out of line. I still do, however not quite as much as I did before. As Samdive put it, I believe he's simply trying to say that none of the AIDA people are professional athletes with the 'not a professional athlete' comment. However I still think that that last paragraph was out of line.

I find this whole thing very discouraging as an aspiring freediver. People like Carlos inspire me greatly, however things like this make me want to have less to do with AIDA not more. Not to mix two subjects, but I find this as discouraging as the subjectivity of the Samba/LMC judging in some situations. I realize that in this case a definate rule was broken, but all around it could have been handled better I think.

That said, I don't want to start expecting perfection from AIDA or its judges. I realize that a perfect system is simply not available, but things like this show need for improvement in my opinion.

Aaron
 

JMD

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2001
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It seems odd that an organization that charges big fees to sanction events should be excused for a lack of professionalism. When Carlos paid money for the "judges" (whatever that term means if the judges are just their to witness the event and really have no say) and for the sanctioning he expected, I would imagine, that he was dealing with a professional organization.

AIDA's response strikes me as very unprofessional, it would be nice if they could simply clarify the issues, instead of focusing their verbage on the fact that they are just "amateurs". Besides, everyone makes mistakes, there is no reason to get defensive about it, why not just focus on what could be done better next time.

It would be nice to hear the judge's side of the story as well, it's curious that an infraction of that magnitude got passed over. Just an honest mistake, or was different/new video passed on to AIDA?

My 2 cents,

Keep at it Carlos your an inspiration to us all...
 

Frederic Buyle

New Member
Dec 22, 2001
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For your information,

AIDA doesn't charge anything for a world record.

The athlete has to pay the flights and accomodation for the judges.

And a fee for the doping test handling if the athlete succeeds in his attempt.

All the judges are volunteers.

That''s all.

Fred.
 

JMD

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2001
374
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I stand corrected Fred, thanks for that. I assumed that there was some fee that went to AIDA to ratify the record, my mistake.
 
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