Choosing spear for dry barrel gun

[Diving Gecko]

as far as the screw-on tail type, would the friction from the tail hitting the dry barrel muzzle slow the spear down more or would the stc slider and mono running along the shaft slow if down more?

I think especially in Tombas that friction is neglible - the o-ring is on the spear already, so it is not like the bigger tail end has to push through a sealing at all. It basically just lifts out the slider with it. I am a bit at a loss as to how the STC does it in their tail slider solutions.
Hmmm, I was supposed to get a freeshaft Tomba, but my spears have been delayed to the extent where Marko no longer can make one for me in time. My own fault for going with a spear that was not in stock and not taking any chances on having Marko start machining until I knew I would have the spears for sure. Now, I have to get either STC or Evo, but was leaning towards STC for not having to unscrew the muzzle before shooting. But with what you are telling me, I might yet consider the Evo... And I just thought I had it all down...

 

[peacenluv]

don't get me wrong, i love all my dry barrel muzzles, even my old mambas i have on my cyranos. and i have really enjoy my stc muzzles on my airbalete and stealth. but i had a lot of problems in the beginning with the stc using the screw on tails which i don't use anymore. but that may be because in the beginning, STC used very poor material for their tails and they were also made very thin so when you shot them and the slider hit, they ripped off! they actually sent me replacements made of titanium (i think it was titanium, anyways, a much stronger material apparently), but by then, i was used to using the tail free with knot and never tried the newer tails. but the new material was definitely much harder than the original.

now if someone has any experience or advice and can tell me if the slider with tail version will shoot more effectively than the solution i'm using now with knot and no tail, i may buy new spears with slider and try out the tails. otherwise, i'll be satisfied buying a few more tailess spears.

 

[trromic]

nice to be reading the forums again after a few months away from diving n spearing. especially the pneumatic dry barrel threads!

just a quick question as i need to get a few extra spears. i've been using the STC X-power with "freeshaft" signal spear with hole near barb, but i also have the STC slider where you tie a knot on the line about 10cm from the tail of the spear. will this be less or more drag than using plastic slider with tail? i've attached the slider for reference. appreciate any advice so i can figure out which spears will be faster and more accurate before i buy. cheers guys!

Instead of that STC plastic slider make a knot like on the picture left, in yellow circle. I have read on italian and spanish forum, they didn't find that plastic slider as good solution.

http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneuma...mba-all-one-barrel-sealing-43.html#post895703
or
http://image.forumfree.it/2/4/4/1/8/6/0/1307143267.jpg
or
http://image.forumfree.it/2/4/4/1/8/6/0/1286574301.jpg

 

[peacenluv]

hi trromic, how's it going? what's up with the double "r"?

thanks for the tip, that's a great idea. i'm gonna have to try that out next time and can forget about the stc slider. not important, but stc sliders i have are metal.

i can see the pic on the tomba site, but how do i view the image.forumfree.it jpg? where do i sign up?

cheers boss!

 

[trromic]

I exceeded the free space for attachments with tromic and thats why additional "r".

PescaSub & Apnea

Here is one more, or you can try with google: "asta nuda" pictures.

Cheers, Tomislav

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi guys,
I have been quiet lately, too much work...
But here's a short update.
I was looking for a dry barrel kit for my Seac 90cm and then in the process started thinking that I needed a longer gun also. Read a lot of great things about the Asso 115 when modded. As mentioned earlier, logistics are hell. I live in China, but need this in Thailand and will have the things shipped to a friend in Denmark who will bring it out to Thailand for me.
Found a secondhand Asso in Italy but couldn't get it shipped in time. Also, with all the back and forth about what spear size to choose it was too late to get a Tomba in time, which I am still bummed about, but that was my own fault. So had to get an Evo - Air from the shop where I was getting my spears and some other goodies. But then was still hooked on the idea of a longer gun. To cut to the chase, I went and ordered a Sporasub One Air 120... It is the same size, maybe even a tad shorted than an Asso 115 and yes it will be less powerful. And yes, I read some nasty things about it. But hey, someone's gotta be naive and try it out. And yes, it is more expensive, but actually not that much since the Asso would need a new spear, a Tomba/STC and a new trigger pin to get it to the same handling as the One Air. It all adds up.
So now, I am still waiting for all the gear to arrive in Thailand in the middle of the month. I will then have a 90cm dry barrel gun and the 120 Air. Should be a good mix. (If I had gotten the Asso, the two guns would have handled very alike, but let's see if I can't adjust to two different ones).

I'll be sure to post once I have some water time with them!

 

[tromic]

Evo - Air was a good choice for "free shaft" 90 cm long gun! I hope One Air 120 cm will be good too. Awaiting your impressions!

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks Tomi!
As you know I thought long and hard about it - too long, as it turned out and I didn't have time to get one of your creations;-(. But you did have a hand in me choosing the Evo. Despite the extras step needed, the simplicity and use of common O-ring won me over. It is basically a Tomba, just less clever;-)

 

[tromic]

Thanks Tomi!
As you know I thought long and hard about it - too long, as it turned out and I didn't have time to get one of your creations;-(. But you did have a hand in me choosing the Evo. Despite the extras step needed, the simplicity and use of common O-ring won me over. It is basically a Tomba, just less clever;-)

I have heard about new version of Evo - Air, with silent damper. Maybe some design details are different from the older. Which one did you buy? Some extra steps are not a big problem if it will be better in overall performance. I suppose it might be safer if some water left in muzzle after loading.

 

[foxfish]

Good luck with the new gun, I also look forward to your opinions....

 

[Diving Gecko]

Me too, hope it doesn't try to take my head off...

 

[lulazz]

seatec also has free shaft spear
SEATEC asta Oleo-Evo | Seatec | Aste | Articoli pesca | SportimeWorld
I have a few and they are not bad (single not double)

 

[Diving Gecko]

A short update.
I received the One Air 120 and when I did, it had a red warning sticker around the handle saying that the line release HAD to be engaged prior to loading, otherwise gun could accidentally misfire...! So, that could be what came out of Broseidon's experience - that Sporasub investigated and found out they had a designed a trigger that was only safe when operated in one of two possible ways of loading it. Not super cool to be honest.

But gun is sweet. I have a reel and a gopro on it, so a bit negative in water (positive when fired) and since it is only my second gun I can still not talk too much about accuracy and handling. But it is not that easy to swing around with the bulk of the barrel and the length. Trigger is sweet. I can load it with the extender at 23 bar and I am just 1.70cm, so the length shouldn't scare anyone.

Here are a few pics, sorry for bad frame grab quality from GoPro Gen1.

Fish are a Queenfish and a Brown Sweetlips. Both around 2.6-2.7 kg.
Camera mount is mounted in between the reel and the wedge that secures the reel to the gun. Just exchanged the two screws for longer ones. The mount is one I found cheap on a Chinese online store - it's a tail for a 700 size RC heli. Cost about 12 bucks. It might be a bit too wobly though.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Here is a pic of the red sticker, I think the text is readable:

 

[Diving Gecko]

I finally got all the pieces together to dry-mod the gun that started this whole odyssey, my Seac Hunter 90.
I did the modification today and put a Seatec Evo-Air dry muzzle on it as well as a new STC piston as the Seac pistons are known to corrode (and mine actually had in just the six months or so that I have had it...).
It was pretty easy but I also went with the least "intrusive" approach:
1. "Deflate" gun
2. Unscrew the old muzzle
3. Pop in a new piston (if need be)
4. Screw on the new muzzle
5. Bring up to pressure again.

You can of course do a full inspection/rebuild, but I didn't see the need nor was I sure, I had the proper tools and work place. The only tool, I needed for this was a 19mm wrench. I also put some 7.5wt motorbike fork oil in it. I had read people going with either 5wt or 10wt, so went for the compromise. Just sucked it from a bottle with the pump (taped over the little inlet hole near the handle) and pumped it in. Very easy, but again, not needed to change oil.

Here are a few pics from today. Nude spear (as they are called in Italy) is around 10 cm longer than the old stock one, but it is lighter and thinner. I am sure, it will be quite a bit faster.

I hope to get some action with it in following weeks.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yesterday was the first time, I ever shot the two guns (One Air 120 & Seac-Evo Hunter 90) back to back and I can't say that much, other that they both just work.
I did forget to loosen the Evo-Air on the Seac before firing a few times, but I didn't see much of a difference in output if any. I have the Seac Hunter up to 18 bars and it is quite hard to load, surprised I don't have bruises on my foot. The One Air is now at 25 and much, much easier. I don't know if the Evo muzzle has anything to do with this or if it is the different compression rations between the guns? I think, I have read about people having the Asso with dry kits at 23 bars and not having issues with loading.
I had almost secretly called the Hunter 90 for my Red Snapper gun - despite actually not really spotting a single red snapper on trips in past few weeks where others got some. But yesterday, the first time I fired the dry-modded 90, it got me two mediums sized snappers (the only two I saw), so now it is def my Snapper Gun. I shot it on the low power setting and it is still plenty powerful around the reef and it is nice that I can take more shots and not have to be absolutely sure I have a clear patch of sand behind the fish which was how I felt when on the reef with the One Air 120. (I did ding the 90 spear a bit, but two snappers were worth it).

I also agree with the people who feel that the trigger pin modification is almost a must-have on "older" airguns. The Hunter has a 2mm pin which is soft enough when shooting on half power. But when on full power and coming from the Air One, I actually twice thought I had the safety on because the trigger was quite hard. I can only imagine how hard a 3mm Cressi pin must be on a gun with a lot of pressure.
The 90cm Hunter is great on the reef, it swings much more easily than the Air One 120 and is very light. With the new muzzle and longer spear it is a tiny bit muzzle heavy but nothing bad.
The 90 is rigged with four wraps and on high power it takes all that and a very negligible hit to the bungee.

I'll leave you with a pic of only my second Red Snapper. I placed a bad shot in it - right in the tail muscles. It was murky and I was waiting for him to present his profile to me but then saw that he was about to head in between some rocks. When I saw how it was placed, I dove and grabbed him in the tail and gills immediately (not deep at all). I am learning every day on this trip
(No pics of first snapper as cam was still on the One Air then).

 

[Diving Gecko]

I think I said earlier in this thread, that I would share my experiences with whatever online shop I decided to go with.
I ended up shopping with Andrea who is Italian and runs:
DeepBlue - Home

He is very knowledgeable and does tons of spearing himself so can advice on many things. He carries many brands but not all, but I found what I needed and then some. His prices are good and shipping is very affordable and since he is within the EU, there should not be tax nor import duties to other EU countries. We did run into a small delay because we shipped over X-Mas which is likely the worst time a year, but I would not hesitate to do business with Andrea again.
Actually, at one point I was close to buying a used Asso from an Italian guy but he could not send internationally, so I dared to ask Andrea (from the online shop) if the Italian private seller could ship gun to him and Andrea could then pack it with the rest of my things. To my surprise he said it would be totally fine. In the end it didn't work out, the time frame was too narrow and I got the One Air from Andrea instead.

All best,
David

 

[popgun pete]

I also agree with the people who feel that the trigger pin modification is almost a must-have on "older" airguns. The Hunter has a 2mm pin which is soft enough when shooting on half power. But when on full power and coming from the Air One, I actually twice thought I had the safety on because the trigger was quite hard. I can only imagine how hard a 3mm Cressi pin must be on a gun with a lot of pressure.

Pulling the trigger is no different on either "high" or "low" power, the gun is at exactly the same pressure as seen by the trigger transmission pin for partitioned reservoir guns. The difference between "high" and "low" power is the final pressure in the gun after the shot, the pressure being quite a bit lower in the inner barrel and rear end (the pre-chamber) of the gun after a "low" power shot because the extra air from the previous muzzle loading action is still locked up in the front tank. Any difference in trigger pull there is probably down to your expectations more than an actual change.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Pulling the trigger is no different on either "high" or "low" power, the gun is at exactly the same pressure as seen by the trigger transmission pin for partitioned reservoir guns. The difference between "high" and "low" power is the final pressure in the gun after the shot, the pressure being quite a bit lower in the inner barrel and rear end (the pre-chamber) of the gun after a "low" power shot because the extra air from the previous muzzle loading action is still locked up in the front tank. Any difference in trigger pull there is probably down to your expectations more than an actual change.

Could certainly be that my mind played a trick on me. After a shot on low, the gun is def much easier to load, so perhaps that carried over into my perceived feel for the trigger hardness. Sorry about that. But I still feel it is much harder than a One Air.
While I have you Pete, I hope you don't mind a few questions: What is the proper sequence of loading these things?
If I have just shot on low, I can just keep it on low while reloading, right? (will it be easier to load this way?) Will anything change if I switch to high before reloading? If I shoot on high, do I have to keep it on high while reloading?

Best and thanks as always

 

[tromic]

Had you been loading guns under water, not emptying water from muzzle?
If I had a Evo-Air I would load the gun this way:

1. Put shaft in muzzle so water from muzzle being replaced with the shaft tail.
2. Tighten the screw to have sealing.
3. Load the shaft.
4. Untighten the screw to be ready for shooting.

I believe this would be the best way if not emptying the muzzle before inserting the shaft.

If emptying the muzzle above water surface before inseting the shaft, step 1. should not be done, just steps 2., 3. and 4.

More difficul loadig with Evo-Air vs X-power is what I would expect. Proper functioning of Evo-Air (movable O-ring) requires high friction to the shaft so O-ring could be moved in front position after shooting. In other words friction force, O-ring to the shaft, must be higher than the oposite force of the water on given depth. Unlike Evo-Air Tovarich and TombaF have the lowest posible friction all the time so the loading should be easyier, but inserting of the shaft should be done above water.