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Co2 - o2 tables training

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Fantastic writeup. I particularly enjoyed the reference to Momo.

...it's like this. Sometimes, when you've a very long street ahead of you, you think how terribly long it is and feel sure you'll never get it swept. And then you start to hurry. You work faster and faster and every time you look up there seems to be just as much left to sweep as before, and you try even harder, and you panic, and in the end you're out of breath and have to stop--and still the street stretches away in front of you. That's not the way to do it.

You must never think of the whole street at once, understand? You must only concentrate on the next step, the next breath, the next stroke of the broom, and the next, and the next. Nothing else.

That way you enjoy your work, which is important, because then you make a good job of it. And that's how it ought to be.

And all at once, before you know it, you find you've swept the whole street clean, bit by bit. what's more, you aren't out of breath. That's important, too...
 
In general I like your article, because I like efficient use of my training time. At the same time I believe traditional gradual CO2 tables have their place with novices and beginners. The ease of traditional tables allows them the time to feel and learn. If the challenge is too steep, the time to try and understand is short, and the chance to understand is reduced. A table time reduction is practical for those that know the techniques, in my opinion.

Another table idea.
In vain of the Co2 table that simply counts contractions; I like to add that I and others have enjoyed also the 'percentage left feeling' table. Instead of counting contractions, the diver comes up when he feels he has a percentage of dive time left, but not exceeding 90%; because that would be either close to samba or wearing him out too much. I see 3 advantages to this; no more 'counting and comparing' to previous dives, no more thinking about time, focus only on technique, and - most importantly - no more training too hard. In other words when you're having a bad day because you're not as fit or relaxed, your perceived effort stays the same, so you'll not use extra force to compensate just to make the usual numbers. This I've done mostly as a replacement of a O2 schedule, doing for instance 50%, 50%, 70%, 90%, 90%. With 2' rest. My buddy would only tell my times after all dives had been done. My focus was only on technique, not the clock. Off cause it's nice to measure the success of a new/improved technique, and surely one can plan max attempts from time to time. But the key was to detach from that dive watch everybody is so attached to :D - A bit like Jaques Mayol apparently had said to Umberto, 'leave all you sophisticated watches at home, we're going to learn freediving.'

Crazy table.
These days, if I have a buddy and feel in the mood I like to do the Herbert Nitch' 'crazy table'. Exhale fully, dive shallow, hold to 85% or so, inhale 1 mouth full of air and with that continue until I need another mouth-full of air. Repeat until you cannot inhale more air. The total time should be not to far from your max dive. Only do this with a skilled buddy in a very shallow pool, where you can hold on to the edge to come up instantly for that next mouth of air. Not for beginners. It's very hard, demanding and dangerous because there is very little margin for error with exhale dives in regard to black outs.
But it's time efficient, since my body and mind are subject for a large percentage of divetime to raised CO2 and lowered O2 levels.

Article request.
Can you also do a write up about static burn out?

Many beginners, as well as advanced divers experience it. How to detect, avoid, and remedy the situation? And off cause also tap into the causes.
I think beginners and even more advanced divers have over training issues, starting to dread long breath-holds. I often wonder how can those elite freedivers push themselves so deep and often in training without burning out?
I've seen my share of beginning freedivers, who at some point run into physical, mental, numeric walls, try harder, and harder and bang their heads against these 'walls' until they give up and even leave the sport.
I think a great deal of these and new diver will greatly benefit from learning what is going on, and how to enjoy the sport for a lifetime.

Thank you Sanso again for the excellent article, I wish more trainers would write such ideas to help the sport grow.
 
Though I find the article interesting as well, as a beginner, I'm overwhelmed by the idea of having to hold my breath 8 times in a row for 1:15 with only one breath in between them. It may not be that taxing to more experienced freedivers, but it IS to me. So, when (or should I say IF?) I'll try this, it will have to be a shorter apnea time. The proposed tables ARE steep indeed...

Still, I do like the idea of reducing time in this kind of training, while still having the benefits of it (the CO2 tolerance training etc. ...)
 
Hi Jo,

In my view it's a bit like fitness, if you're not able to lift the heavy loads, use lighter ones until you can do the 8 or 12 repetitions.
So in case you're counting contractions, reduce those. If you want to go by feeling go to say 70% difficulty, or another number that challenges you body a bit. I think one of the main objectives is to make one's time better spend, by tuning out unnecessary rest.
Actually a flat schedule works very nice in practise, the rhythm and completion really give a nice sense of accomplishment.
The high Co2, and drunkenness sedative effect it gives feels actually nice, and makes doing more repetitions easy.
I believe the article said that the 4th hold is likely to be the difficult one. In my experience doing 16x50 dynamic, also mostly a CO2 exercise, it is indeed a measuring point; together with the 8th dive. If I can make the 4th, I believe I can make it to 8th, if I can make 8th I can make it to the 16th. So if making it to the 4th is too hard, adapt your schedule AND improve your technique. With better technique you can sustain steeper schedules.

I know from you db writing that you're struggling with your schedules, and I invite you to come over, maybe with a bunch of friends and enjoy a day (!) in the olympic pool in Eindhoven with me, so we can explore what is going on, and in what area's we can improve :)
 
Hi all. First of all, thank you Sanso for the article! It has made me try the one-breath table with a reduced load (45 seconds) for starters. I was so happy do discover that I can actually do that 8 times in a row! :) Moreover, I hooked myself up to a heart monitor and made another private discovery (private because for others it's probably obvious): that my pulse rises while holding, and drops during contractions.

I attach a snapshot of this training -- what a vast space this opens for longitudinal measurements and monitoring your progress!
Note: it begins with ca. 2:30 preparation time, then the first significant rise is the slow inhale and the first hold, the drop begins with contractions and ends with taking another breath; note also that the minimum pulse rises over time across those 8 exhales; I am thinking of trying to insert some markers into the stream, to see exactly when contractions begin, and whether the absolute low is really exactly when I (shaking already) squeeze the remaining air out of my lungs. Just how cool is that!? :) Thanks again!

statyka-wykres2.png
 
Hi Piotrek,

Congratulations with the table. It is cool to be able to.do that many of those longer dives in arow.
From your graph I See you're a fairly normal beginner. As you'll improove your relaxation abilities and confidence you will find that your HR will start dropping once you immerse and start your hold. Letting go with confidence is the big mental step ahead.
Also your observation that with inhales your HR rises, and with exbales it falls is correct. However do not get too hung up on your HR. Ive seen graphs of people doing 7 with a first 3 minutes a high of 90bpm. My HR follows much more abucket profile starting at 100 - inhale, then dropping to 54 in 20 sec. then dropping further in a downward arch (very mathematical) to 34 at 2:35 then liniarily rising to 38 at the end5:15. I did not record longer holds.Compairing mine to others I'm puzzled by the diversity of peoples graphs. But HR numbers do not tell the whole story. Blood flow is more important, and that relies on HR AND volume per beat. What you can learn from the graph is you condition and how rested you are compared to other days. You can also see how much recovery time you need. A doctor may know many more things to read from the graphs.

Anyway I like seeing peoples graphs, bring 'm on!
 
Hi Kars, thanks! And a correction: these were dry attempts. Pool time is too precious at the moment. Bed time is easier to manage ;-)

I did another attempt yesterday, with 60s holds, but the diagram is not so very clear (and 60s is too long for me still, I will go back to 45s and stay there for a while).

You quote some amazing figures regarding your pulse, wow, that's a nice goal to try to approach! Indeed, relaxation was a problem in that illustrated attempt, also because of a slight task overload -- I managed two devices for the very first time in this configuration, while trying to remember some partial time stamps for later verification, AND trying to relax at the same time... well... :)

I have also wondered if an O2 on neutral lung volume wouldn't straighten the HR curve drastically. Something to try for when my smartphone is back from repair and I can run an O2 table from it.
 
Speaking of beginners, relaxation, and the ultimate 1-breath table that Sanso proposed -- it was an absolute relaxation killer for me to try to count the contractions, despite some progress that I've made in detaching myself mentally from the body that experiences contractions. This ultimate table is definitely for the pros...
 
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