Co2 - o2 tables training

[Simos]

Each exercise has its pros and cons. With each you train slightly different aspects, so it is good to alternate. You can also do a long series of short breath-holds with just a single breath in between them - in such way you'll be pretty hypercapnic for a long time without having to go deep into hypoxia. And in such case it matters little whether it is FRC or full lung. Though with FRC in such a series you reduce the comfort time considerably, so you spend most of the time in a struggle phase.

I totally agree with the point on short holds with almost zero recovery. In fact I always wondered why CO2 tables have to be so complex in terms of 'logistics' when the principle of what you are trying to achieve is relatively simple.

My answer to myself was always the fact that if the breathold is of a more realistic duration and profile of CO2 buildup it is more specific for real diving. This is the reason I am questioning CO2 tables with FRC holds because the moment you start changing another parameter, you can do simpler tables with shorter holds and shorter recoveries anyway.

Of course we also know that full lung CO2 tables are extremely dangerous and 1 in 3 people doing them regularly eventually dies from boredom. So the moral of the story is that if you don't want to die from boredom, do short FRC holds with short recoveries

 

[Azrael3000]

As a beginner myself I was of course browsing the forums here attentively and I noticed that it was mentioned that FRC is an advanced technique. Is that still considered to be so or can I do it as newbie as well?
Oh and another question: It was asked by the OP, can maybe more people tell us/me which position they use for tables? So far there was only one response to that question.
Thanks.

 

[Simos]

As a beginner myself I was of course browsing the forums here attentively and I noticed that it was mentioned that FRC is an advanced technique. Is that still considered to be so or can I do it as newbie as well?
Oh and another question: It was asked by the OP, can maybe more people tell us/me which position they use for tables? So far there was only one response to that question.
Thanks.

You can try FRC on dry holds but I wouldn't use it in the water as a beginner and certainly not if you are doing anything depth related. (make sure you have a buddy for anything in the water).

For dry holds in general, personally I like savasana in a dark quiet room. Something like the half-lotus is good too if you can get comfortable. But if you want to distract yourself you can just so tables sitting on the couch watching TV. Make sure whatever position you choose that you can properly relax. Having the spine straight helps in many respects.

 

[prno]

A couple of screen shots for the above Android App:

View attachment 32421

View attachment 32422

Hi.
I've downloaded this application and it works fine but speech option doesn't work. Anyone have same problem ?

 

[Siku]

You can try FRC on dry holds but I wouldn't use it in the water as a beginner.

Because I train a lot without weights I'm often on FRC or half lung. Is that a problem? I imagine it could 'confuse' the body, by training two things at once? Any other issues?

I know FRC is considered an advance technique but the alternative is massive positive buoyancy.

 

[Simos]

Because I train a lot without weights I'm often on FRC or half lung. Is that a problem? I imagine it could 'confuse' the body, by training two things at once? Any other issues?

I know FRC is considered an advance technique but the alternative is massive positive buoyancy.

Could BO with less notice on FRC...

 

[nenrandir]

One disadvantage, from a training point of view, with FRCs, is that the switch back to full breath holds becomes rather boring. What to do all the time? I guess that there is a risk of "conditioning oneself" to a somewhat impatioent attitude.

On the other hands, it´s quite nice to no have to suffer contraction too early

Currently I've changed my dry training to 2:30 full holds and rest period of 60, 50, 40 and so on down to two 10-second recoveries. To me, at least, a challenge in the two final holds.

 

[martin366]

I do few times a week this kind of CO2 table (program on Android):

Breathe up: 120s
1) Hold: 120s - Rest: 105s
2) Hold: 120s - Rest: 90s
3) Hold: 120s - Rest: 75s
4) Hold: 120s - Rest: 60s
5) Hold: 120s - Rest: 45s
6) Hold: 120s - Rest: 30s
7) Hold: 120s - Rest: 15s
8) Hold: 120s
Total: 25min

My max hold is about 3:15min
Once or twice a week i do DYN in pool.

Is this table good for CO2 ?

Thanks!

 

[kanthand]

I do few times a week this kind of CO2 table (program on Android):

Breathe up: 120s
1) Hold: 120s - Rest: 105s
2) Hold: 120s - Rest: 90s
3) Hold: 120s - Rest: 75s
4) Hold: 120s - Rest: 60s
5) Hold: 120s - Rest: 45s
6) Hold: 120s - Rest: 30s
7) Hold: 120s - Rest: 15s
8) Hold: 120s
Total: 25min

My max hold is about 3:15min
Once or twice a week i do DYN in pool.

Is this table good for CO2 ?

Thanks!

Hi,

first of its a usable CO2-Table, but less then optimal I might say. My following advices are founded on the thought *CO2-Table shall give you high levels for prolonged time* to help you cope with contractions better. Physical and psychic.
so
a) cut out the breath up: as its just another word of hyperventilation :martial!
If you use Breath-ups wet you run risk of having a BO without any signs, at any point of time. Also they tell your body u have plenty of oxygen reserves, hence the dive response will be less or never appear. Thats not what you want. Thats shooting your own foot in some way.
b) Lower Hold-Time to 90s. I don't remember where but somewhere there was the suggestion to use half the time of your max static.
b2) keep your chin touching your chest for most times to avoid heavy headaches (effatah's advice).
c) start with Rest times like 60s, 55s, 50s, and so on. Smaller gaps make the whole run more consistent.
most important
d) the more you have Rest, which means ventilation through breathing, the more you get rid of CO2 naturally. Thats what u wanna avoid. So if you run down a table without any probelms whatsoever. Maybe even on two different days to be safe (daily conditions or performance), then make all Rests about 5s shorter. Which means u keep the apnea-time constant, and lower the rest time the better you get. Once you reached 10s rest times for all, start counting the breath. The overall goal is that you manage the 90s apnea with only one breath rest for all. If you got that u can start increasing the apnea time.

"As long as a human thinks he can't do something, this long he will never be able to do it" (freely transl.)
have faith and fun

 

[martin366]

Thanks Kanthand!

Now everything makes sense

I removed breatheup.
Hold is now 90s and rest starts at 50s and decrease rest time each round by 5s. Last rounds rest time is 20s.
Table total 16m20s

 

[portal2anti]

Hello there, i am new to apnea, and i would like to start practising CO2 table. I want to prolongue static apnea time,only 1:05, dont laugh pls
The bad time is my main goal to start practising CO2 table.
Now i try doing next table:

30sec prepare time
8 intervals
2:30min rest (breath) time (start hold time), decreasing every time 15secs
and my hold time period is 32sec (half of my personal best..)

Can u give me any advices about correcting table?

I know i am complete newb, but help would be nice!

Thanks!

 

[trux]

2:30 starting rest at a CO2 table is too long, especially at such short breath-hold times. Start with 1:30 or better 1:00, decrease by 15s, and repeat the last cycles with a 15s rest several times.

Even better and simpler CO2 exercise is repeting constant lenght breath-holds with just a single inhale in between - do 20 times a 30s breath-hold. In this way you'll quickly get used to the feeling of high CO2, and will progress rapidly.

 

[portal2anti]

2:30 starting rest at a CO2 table is too long, especially at such short breath-hold times. Start with 1:30 or better 1:00, decrease by 15s, and repeat the last cycles with a 15s rest several times.

Even better and simpler CO2 exercise is repeting constant lenght breath-holds with just a single inhale in between - do 20 times a 30s breath-hold. In this way you'll quickly get used to the feeling of high CO2, and will progress rapidly.

So i should take one breath, then hold 30 secs then release breath, take another, hold 30sec and so on (20 times), if i understood good?

How many times can i do that excercise per day, and hold interval for that excercise should be 50% of my best hold?

Thanks so much for helping me!

 

[trux]

Once a day may be enough, but if it was easy, repeat it with a longer BH until you really struggle at the end. There is no training effect if you do not suffer. You can do it for 10 minutes, or longer if you wish, but I would not recommned exaggerating too much, right at the beginning.

 

[portal2anti]

Once a day may be enough, but if it was easy, repeat it with a longer BH until you really struggle at the end. There is no training effect if you do not suffer. You can do it for 10 minutes, or longer if you wish, but I would not recommned exaggerating too much, right at the beginning.

Big thanks!

 

[Pav]

How do these charts work as a training aid?

Use charts - How long until you would expect to see an improvement in breath holds?

Frequency - How frequent do you need to complete a chart to "maintain" current performance?

Stop charts - How long until you would expect to see a decline in performance?

Do people use these charts only leading up to comps, spearo season / or is there value to them all year.

 

[nenrandir]

A thought: Why decrease the breathing time between the apneas? This just makes you get rid of CO2, when the point should be to accumulate it, right? The 1-breath approach seems interesting, will try.

 

[trux]

Decreasing the recovery does not make you get rid of CO2. Oppositely, the shorter recoveries help accumulating it. Both hypercapnic methods (decreasing recovery, and repeated apneas with minimal recovery) have its place in the training. With the single breath you get intensive hypercapnia, but you also deplete oxygen stores quickly, meaning that the time spent in the breath-hold will be shorter than with some more recovery. So with decreasing recovery you'll be able to train longer breath-holds with longer periods of contractions. With the single breaths you'll be under contractions quicker, but will not be able to keep them for such a long time. So my advice is alternating both approaches.

 

[nenrandir]

Decreasing the recovery does not make you get rid of CO2.

Ambiguity on my behalf: I was referring to the longer ventilations in the beginning, where you get rid of more CO2 relatively to the shorter ventilations later in the table. I'm quite sure we agree on this

 

[minnow]

...snip...

Of course we also know that full lung CO2 tables are extremely dangerous and 1 in 3 people doing them regularly eventually dies from boredom. So the moral of the story is that if you don't want to die from boredom, do short FRC holds with short recoveries

Thats why I do mine dry while watching TV not nearly as good as pool training, but better than not doing them at all, well, I hope anyway.