Co2 Tables.

[Bad Robot]

Exactly! Glad to see the principle applied! Let us know how it goes!

Hi Richard,

awesome stuff

Regarding "exhale O2 tables": I understand that beginning a breath hold exhaled will leave me with low O2 from the beginning but also with low CO2 so i'm in hypoxic state before high CO2 triggers my urge to breath and i can focus on the goal of O2 tables as is dealing with low O2. Right?

Can you explain a little or link to an article how to setup such table? I think i understood the principle (see above) but don't really have an idea how this translates to hold and breath times in a table.

Thank you

 

[sanso]

I'll be writing an article on that, then.

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

 

[Bad Robot]

I'll be writing an article on that, then.

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

Would be great. Thank you

 

[Jo_duiker]

I'll be writing an article on that, then.

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

I guess it's just the same as a normal O2 table, but start the breathhold on exhale and have shorter (constant) breathing times and also shorter breathhold times (which are still increased with a constant number of seconds)?

 

[Bad Robot]

I guess it's just the same as a normal O2 table, but start the breathhold on exhale and have shorter (constant) breathing times and also shorter breathhold times (which are still increased with a constant number of seconds)?

Would be my guess too. Get rid of all CO2 during breaths, but i don't think one can simultaneously accumulate O2 deficit like you do with CO2 in CO2 tables. Also you don't have a hint like contractions for CO2 which could tell you reached a certain level of O2 deficit.

I'm really looking forward what Richard will tell us

 

[bboynaki]

I'll be writing an article on that, then.

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

hello, any news on this? really looking forward to reading it

 

[sanso]

waaah, thanks for the reminder! we've been superbusy the last weeks - and will be the coming ones...
This write-up still on the agenda!

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

 

[Jo_duiker]

waaah, thanks for the reminder! we've been superbusy the last weeks - and will be the coming ones...
This write-up still on the agenda!

Richard Wonka
wefreedive.com -- richardwonka.com -- fb.com/TheRichardWonka

Looking forward to that, as I don't have a clue whatsoever on how to even start with "empty lungs" O2 tables...

 

[bboynaki]

Looking forward to that, as I don't have a clue whatsoever on how to even start with "empty lungs" O2 tables...

I experimented with two different exhale tables tonight. you can see them in my training log. My goal was to reach 2:00 (half my dry apnea static top set) on a moderately forceful exhale. the exhale amount was beyond FRV just enough to the point where my first reaction after each set was to inhale (not exhale). I tried both 10 and 15 second increments.

 

[Jo_duiker]

I experimented with two different exhale tables tonight. you can see them in my training log. My goal was to reach 2:00 (half my dry apnea static top set) on a moderately forceful exhale. the exhale amount was beyond FRV just enough to the point where my first reaction after each set was to inhale (not exhale). I tried both 10 and 15 second increments.

Wow, 2 minutes is impressive. So, how did this work in terms of a "Wonka" table which would be (also) designed to save time? How much time did you take to breathe between holds? My guess is that the Wonka table only has ONE breath between holds... We'll just have to wait for the writing he has planned.

 

[Bad Robot]

My guess is that the Wonka table only has ONE breath between holds...

Can't be from my understanding, because you have to get rid of accumulated CO2 between holds, because you don't want to struggle with an early CO2 induced breath reflex in O2 training. If you could do this in one breath, common CO2 tables wouldn't work.

My guess for the breath time is that they are still somehow long and constant. My actual (normal) O2 table goes from 25% to 80% hold of personal best. So to aim for 50% exhaled like bboynaki sounds reasonable for me. But i would expect that there is also some progression during sets, as for me i cannot hold 80% in a first try but easily if i worked up trough shorter holds. And what i absolutely don't know if you can accumulate O2 deficit during sets (without creating CO2 issues) as you do in CO2 tables.

 

[Jo_duiker]

... I'm clearly NOT very familiar with O2 tables and/or their specific goals and features. So far, I've only done CO2 tables. Stupid, I know.
I see... Indeed, with only one breath, you would get too many contractions too soon, making it a CO2 table and not an O2 table.

So, I guess the acutal "time saving" in a "Wonka" O2 table would be because of the generally shorter breathhold times: as one can not hold his/her breath as long with empty lungs as with full lungs, the last breathhold time should be (considerably?) shorter for an empty lung O2 table than it would be for a "normal" O2 table, right?

I once did 1:40 on empty lungs by the way (dry), after a few warm up attempts. Quite tough, I must say - felt as if my throat and lungs would implode. (I had breathed out beyond FRC, so my lungs were really totally empty!)

 

[bboynaki]

How much time did you take to breathe between holds?

I set my recovery time to 1:00 between sets for my experiment (half the max hold goal). You recover faster from exhale sets. However, towards the top sets I was still getting around 15-20 contractions.

Wow, 2 minutes is impressive

Comparing empty lung statics between different people is fruitless, since there is NO consistent level of the definition of "empty lungs" and no way to enforce it amongst ourselves. Also the point is to experience hypoxia faster, so anything less than a full inhale is acceptable. My advice is to be consistent within your own workouts and track the progress of your inhale statics, using exhale statics only as a training tool.

EDIT - also wanted to add that a "good" exhale static might indicate that my CO2 tolerance is relatively worse than my hypoxic tolerance. In my case I think that's true. I give up very easily once contractions start.

So, how did this work in terms of a "Wonka" table which would be (also) designed to save time?

While it was not a one-breath table as described by @Bad Robot, the total workout time was slightly less than 1/2 the time of an inhale table. I experienced the same feelings in the top sets as I do in my inhale statics, but I need to experiment more to get the table right.

And what i absolutely don't know if you can accumulate O2 deficit during sets

Someone with an oxymeter can answer this. Unfortunately, we experience CO2 effects much sooner than we experience hypoxia (which is why Wonka tables work). The fact that the O2 hold time increases I think is related to the dive reflex - we can hold longer as it kicks in, so we NEED to hold longer to experience the same level of hypoxia per set. I'm wondering if exhale O2 tables can be done with a fixed hold time after a warmup.

 

[KonPraan]

I have searched this forum to see if I could find out why so many people say that you can only do one table a day. My intuition tells me that a day of diving puts a much harder toll on the body that one table, but I'm really only a novice. It would be great if someone could come with some hard facts on this subject! Before I read that you should only do one table a day, I had done 2 CO2 tables a day for a week. I am now doing the Wonka table once a day, but it would be really great if I could train even more.