Competitor Decline

[Nikkey]

I am just wondering if any other freediving communities have suffered a decline in competitors at some point and if you have any theories why? I am still pretty new to the freediving community here (Vancouver) - I only started to get involved last year. There were a healthy number of competitors but this year we are struggling to not cancel competitions. Is this a normal fluctuation in the competitive aspect of the hobby/sport?

 

[jome]

I think the treshold for entering a competition is getting higher and higher because the "pros" are getting just better and better - but nothing for a beginner has changed.

For a beginner, reaching a 100m dyn for example for the first time is a big deal, but very frustrating as the competition is won with twice the distance. We always tell beginners that you should not compete because you want to win, but for just the experience, but why call it even a competition if you have no chance of getting even on the same hundreds than the winners?

That's part of the "problem". Another is that from the experienced end, there is also loss. People just getting bored, starting families, moving to different sports, scaring them selves witless and quitting...So who will move in to replace them? If there is no replacements coming, no continuity...Then it is time for the experienced active divers to look into the mirror. Are we educating, training, supporting, advertising? Or just kicking beginner butt? Are we open and supportive of newcomers or mainly just an inside crowd?

Any "scene" can last only so long on it's original members - for continuity and renewal you need to bring in new generations. It can sometimes be a tedious task, but vital for the survival of the sport/hobby.

So all in summary:
-Are there new divers coming into your scene constantly? If not, why not? You need to do something here
-If yes, do they have something to do. If you want them to compete, have you considered running separate "beginner" competitions. Or having 2 levels in the competition (expert and beginner series or something) to encourage beginners to start competing too?
-Maybe competitions are getting too serious for beginners, or maybe too relaxed for experts. Challenge and skill need to be on the right level to generate interest.

Then of course there is the question - are competitions everything? Should people compete if they are having fun without it as well? I would say no...Competition is not everything. But it can be a fun experience even for the mainly recreational divers...

I would say the "losses" are a natual development. To stop or reverse it, you need active intervention...Meaning active education.

 

[Haydn]

Bring back Howard Jones, I'd say.

 

[Cornholio]

Bring back Howard Jones, I'd say.

Oh yes, I was wondering what happened to him. I saw in on the TV a little while ago, I think he was talking about sustainable fishing. Haven't come across him in cyberspace since the freediver.co.uk days.

 

[samdive]

We're trying hard to keep new people coming in to the sport at Saltfree and it seems to be working. We have a full beginner course running every month this summer and are doing better now at getting those people to then come back and train with us, and even enter our competitions.

At our comp this year, Double Dip at the end of July, we are offering a prize for the person with the highest score at their first AIDA comp as well as traditional male and female winners.

We try across the board to encourage a culture of "just because 15m is easy for me, it's not for everyone" and to ensure all our divers get equal respect for their attempts and preparations - and also that they get equal congratulations for their PBs!

One thing that makes it very hard is that when people get good, they tend to go all self centred and no longer have time to devote to helping others. I have fought quite hard to try and avoid this amongst the Saltfree posse and remind everyone that it's not all "me me me". We're lucky that most of our divers are not like that and realise that it's cool for beginners to get help from UK team divers, record holders etc and motivates them no end..

so my message is that if you are laying on facilities for people to train, or organising events, that you encourage a culture of building new talent, or even new "lack-of-talent-but-full-of-enthusiasm" if you know what I mean!

It's tough but I don't think it's a new thing. The leaders/organisers/pros need to make sure they are still being inspirational - and that's hard to be, either when you are very focussed on bettering your own performance, or have reached a plateau yourself. At first it's not easy to join in the celebrations and back slapping for a newbie who is getting PBs all the time when you haven't had one yourself for a year or more - but at a point, for me at least, it seemed like a switch flicked and I realised that helping someone else to that happy moment could be (almost) as good as doing it yourself. When more higher level freedivers realise that, it will help bring the numbers back up. For me Kirk is a perfect example of someone who manages that well, as was Loic.. and of course Mr Jones!

just my £2.50

 

[Haydn]

Yes, its probably because people like Sam have taken on the reigns, there is so much more happening. Crumbs, we even go on freediving holidays with our mates now. When Howard was on the scene, his efforts were virtually the only efforts and so his Cyprus comps were well attended and the only place to be. It was as if they were the only safe way to try our best. Now, we can go anywhere, anytime, Nice, Dahab, La Paz or dive locally with any number of set ups in our own Countries, and be safe, and thats what we do. So, having made a few holidays each year, we often cannot fit in the competitions.

Oh Sam! I did a 15 metre dive last week at the lily pad and had to hang onto the rope for ages to recover. Maybe the doc was right!

 

[Jon]

My original idea when I came up with Freedive-A-Palooza was to have something at the opposite end of a competition. Originally this was because we had no finances, or judges, to run any kind of a competition in the middle of the mid-west- let alone insurance to cover this kind of activity.

It was meant to be just a fun gathering of divers to swap stories, try new gear, go camping, and drink some beer(s).:friday Every year it gets bigger and bigger- it should be pretty huge if everyone comes who has emailed me and I can only imagine what next year will be like for the fifth annual event?

What I am finding now is that since divers are starting families that the event will have to make accommodations for that- to appease my own family if nothing else. Since there is a relaxed camp out/party atmosphere to the whole thing I think it is much easier to include families into it rather than a high(er) stressed situation like a competition. It would be kind of hard to concentrate on a top-time when you spouse needs you to change a diaper while they chase down your dog who just ran off with someones fin- stranger things have happened

I know that I have a few families coming this year, but by next year I want this to be a completely family friendly event. This may include a bit more shallow water snorkeling in the mix, but if the size of the group keeps growing like it has, there should be more than enough for every skill level to do.

It also helps to have a great location- which isn't always possible. The lake I have picked out has a nice kids swimming beach that has it's own separate lagoon that only goes down 3'. Add tot hat fish cribs at 5'-20' and you have interesting things for the novice to look at- or try out their speargun on. For the deep freaks the lake goes down to 320'. Hitting depth isn't a very long swim on certain sides of the lake, while there is plenty of shallow water along the opposite shore.

Another thing to put all of this into context is the sad shape that the diving industry is in these days. In our country all the baby boomer's are getting to old- or dying off as happened to a friend of mine last month, and the younger people aren't picking up the sport with as much enthusiasm as in the past- this is scuba I am talking about. Snorkeling/freediving is much cheaper and has a quicker learning curve so seems to be more accessible to divers and their families.

After running hundreds of school kids through discover scuba's over the years I've changed my mind and think that running them through a snorkeling program, where they could actually AFFORD to buy the gear, would be a better emphasis to promote the aquatic environment. This might be more specific to some of the higher poverty places in which I have taught, but I think it could be pretty universally applied- just don't tell PADI.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something that I have given a bit of thought too.

Jon

 

[fcallagy]

Jon I agree wholeheartedly with you scuba is an expensive business to get into I am into it about 5/6 years now and it only now that i seem to have everything I feel I need. I am about to enter the saltfree comp with Sam and will be my first comp but my reasons for entering are purly to see what I can do in a very safe environment and to meet a few db people face to face. At a local triathlon they offered two swim distances one was 350m to try and get more people into it and it worked. Sam has a best newcomer to the double dip which is a great idea. We could also have categorys by age etc so that more people might enter with a view to winning something but I think like myself most people are entering comps for thier first time just for the experiance. Most people taking part in marathons are there for the same reason just to take part.

 

[BennyB]

My very first freedive competition was in a little town in Germany. It was run by AIDA people through AIDA rules but was not an AIDA ranking competition.

The whole premise was that it was a "beginners" competition. Firstly, there were lectures from experienced people about AIDA rules and advice for not getting DQ's, information on different disciplines of freediving, equipment, medical stuff, training tips and a talk from Tom Sietas on his approach to competitions. After all that, we jumped in the pool and Tom gave us a static demonstration, then a bit after that we had the competition, run exactly to AIDA specifications, with one exception... after your performance, the judges would give you advice and tips based on what they observed from you. Then there was an awards ceremony.

That was the first day, the second was a fun day with a baton relay and some other apnea bits. IT was a fantastic weekend and an awesome learning experience. Everyone was encouraged to perform to their own personal levels and not to be too competitive about the whole thing. It was probably the best introduction to competitive freediving you could ask for, it left me hungry for more. As far as i'm aware it was the only competition of it's type and I haven't heard of any others like it, perhaps we all should think of doing something like it again.

Just to press on a point that Sam mentioned earlier in the thread, 18 months on now and i've just come back from representing my country at the World Championships, obviously i'm a bit older and uglier than I was back in Germany and have a lot more competition experience, and as such set completely different expectations on myself. But for me, the biggest highlight of the whole World Championship was coaching Liv Philip when she got the static NR. Helping out someone else achieve their goals is a massive buzz and reminds you why you love the sport so much. Doesn't matter how big the goal is but if you help someone achieve it then you're doing your part for the sport.

Cheers,
Ben

ps. the upcoming Double Dip in the UK will be great because it's got a good mix of beginners, intermediate and advanced freedivers. The main difference between the 3 is time and perseverence.

 

[Nikkey]

We do have a lot of people here going through PFI courses every year with Kirk, Mandy, Tom and whoever else is helping out but not many of the students are seen again. I have only seen one or two from my course which had around 15 people in it.
Maybe competing against the likes of Mandy and many other talented freedivers here is an intimidating idea.
I think the beginners competition would be a good way to get over that but then who would qualify as a beginner, first time competitor? freediving under a certain amount of years? never been past a certain depth? never been over a certain time in static? hmmm...

But I am not so sure that is the problem because with such small numbers of people competing you are going to place in the top three regardless.

I realize that competition is not everyones thing, it's not particularily mine right now but at the same time I do think it is important in keeping the sport alive. Everytime we have a competition there are always people at the pool asking about freediving.
Maybe we are having too many competitions a year...how many happens in everyone else's community on average?

There are also weekend dive trips for people around here but maybe we need to be advertising elsewhere about them and not just our mailing list. I think the affordibility is a big thing too.

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

 

[samdive]

We only have one deep and one pool per year - and that's enough. It's a bit strange, the years we have not done it, everyone has complained at the lack of a comp, yet when we do, we don't get many entries.

I swore blind I'd only run Double Dip if it covered its costs this year - which meant 15 competitors - yet we're going ahead with 13..... yet I know if we didn't do it, all kinds of people (who generally haven't entered!) would be moaning about the decline of freediving in the UK! you can't win!

 

[Bill]

Nikkey
It feels funny to read this thread. In the US we had exactly one meet in the last 12 months and if you weren't part of the small elite group, you weren't invited to that one. How much are the tickets to Vancouver? It would be a little like the two birds and one stone thing (apologies to all the other parrot owners).

 

[glennv]

Same in the Netherlands. People always complaining that there are no local competitions and when we did one this year we had to struggle and bribe people to get in. In the end it was a great comp but almost not worth it with just over 10 competitors.
We have still new people in our pipeline but less then 5% of them are interested in competitions ,which in itself is not a bad thing looking at what we emphasize in our courses, but similar numbers from the other dutch clubs.
Also for beginning freedivers it is expensive and scary to go to a big international comp, since you feel you are not good enough for something like that.
I still remember my first intl. comp and was skared shitless ;-). Took me a lot of courage to dare to enter. So without smaller low budget local comps newbies will not easy jump in the big pool.
Thats why we still try and do it at least one a year.

 

[jome]

There is some weird transformation from "anti competition" to competition.

I remember when I first started diving, I absolutely swore I would never start competing. The idea of competition that I then had in my head was that it's all about pushing yourself to the edge, and often over it.

I don't recall exactly how, but somehow someone got me to participate anyway. My results were of course awful and I did every mistake possible, but somehow I came out enjoying the experience.

I realized that it was not at all about pushing, but more like a structured gathering of divers, where you can go in to absorb knowledge and meet new people. Of course since then, some competitive aspect creeped in as well and especially big international competitions are becoming more like "real" competitions.

But the point is - taking that first step can be a big one for a beginner, but in the end, many that "don't like the idea of competitions", would actually like it, if they just tried it. So encouragement, sometimes lots of it, may be needed, but in a a lot of cases, it pays off.

As for having 2 different series and how to select who's a beginner and who's not...Basically I'd just give people the freedom to choose. Do you want to be in the "advanced" group or the "beginner group". I think any self repsecting diver would realize after beating the easy group hands down, that it's probably time to step up...Also the prises in the advanced group would be more appealing etc etc...

 

[glennv]

Interesting idea about the 2 series and for big competitions definately worth it.
Should not be too hard to split for instance all below 100 meter PB's in group A and all above in group B.

 

[Morg]

I have yet to compete but I soon enough will at the end of the month. My reasons for entering are basically to better myself and my knowledge of freediving. I see competitions as a great place to meet other people who share the same passion as myself. I am also very excited to meet people who take it very seriously because I have yet to reach my limit in freediving. Infact I have done quite a lot of things that I never even dreamed of when I discovered freediving. I am not looking to actually compete against others but I see it as a competition against myself. I have set my bar a bit higher then what I have done, so in a sense it is still a competition to me.

 

[Sergiu]

Initially I didnt want to compete, in particular not in pool disciplines but when the annual competition was organised by my local group, i changed my mind. The decision was based on the fact that i
- got to meet new freedivers and see other styles, ideas, equipment, etc
- had all safety required to do a proper max attempt, something i dont normally do in training at all, even if we train mostly with buddies around. In fact, knowing that i have safety right there, it's very conforting, yet the very first attempt, a DNF swim ended up with an ample samba, what else?
- motivational boost. This one i learnt only after the first competition, seing others doing better it's an inspiration and makes you think/hope it's doable.
- had the pool for ourselves, at least once a year! i know it may sound strange but here in Budapest, it's always packed at the pools and we tend to train at rather odd hours...

On the down side, it is somewhat demotivating if you enter a competition knowing your results, even with a new PB, will totally suck compared with the top athletes. It's very likely that one will enter a competition also due to a bit of competitive spirit but it's hard to not have it shuttered from the start knowing that you'll likely fight for the last 5 positionss . That's more and more true as the top performances are getting futher away from what a beginner, even a talented one, can achive within, say, 1 year of training.

That's why a like a lot the idea of entry level and pro competitions, maybe organised just as any other competition at once, just that ranking would be done in two categories. How to differenciate is another story but with a bit of cleaver thinking, it should not be that complicated.

S

 

[naiad]

I have competed once, and enjoyed it a lot. I want to enter more competitions in the future.

Reasons why I want to compete:
- Improving my own performance
- Meeting other freedivers and the fun atmosphere
- Giving myself an incentive for training

Reasons why I don't want to:
- Having to travel to competitions
- Expenses such as medical certificates
- Poor performance compared with other competitors

 

[AltSaint]

Running a freediving club in London, and attending international AIDA competitions, I get to see both ends of the spectrum. On one hand the nervous newbie struggling to hold their breath for 60 seconds, to the confident record-breakers and medal holders.

Whenever someone new has an induction, I explain that pool training is not freediving - it is training for freediving. I have tried my best to encourage club members to compete, but not all go down the route.

If I were to analyse the last 100 people that have started freediving at our club, then this is roughly what I would estimate people have progressed on to: 50 or so come once, and then don't return again. 25 come for about 6 weeks, then drift onto something else. 15 are happy to just do the weekly pool thing ( though not every week ). 5 train regularly for recreational freediving. 5 train regularly for competition. ( The last 2 figures I have rounded up as well. ) Also, I have missed out some categories.

I have to accept some of the responsibility for this - our sessions are just dynamic or static - we haven't so far had any mini-competitions, games evenings or weekend outings for example. We do socialise for an hour before training though, and now and again we have group relaxation sessions before getting in the water.

I think the biggest problem though is bridging the gap between the 'Little Chlorine' and the 'Big Blue'. Competing requires some form of competitive nature, and confidence. How do you get across to someone that they don't have to be uber-athletes to turn up at a competition and have a really good time? Sometimes it works by critical mass - a couple of people sign up for something, and then others follow. That seemed to happen for the last 3 UK national championships ( Saltfree and Cyprus 2003/4 ).

These days though, there doesn't seem to be enough stimulus to get people to cross the mental barrier unless a) it's a big event that doesn't have selection criteria, and b) you know someone else going who is the same level as you.

Sometimes I wonder if we just try and 'sell' competitions too much. Maybe if there was more mystique and exclusivity, everyone would try and get in. I don't think there are any easy answers, but if my maths are correct, then there are definitely some grass roots issues to resolve.

 

[naiad]

Maybe there should be different bands of ability/experience. Entrants would have to be honest about their experience and PBs to compete at the right level. This may be difficult to put into practice, and I can't think of a way of doing it. There are always those who have been freediving for many years and have relatively low PBs, and those who are total beginners and can do impressive performances.

Even those who are not very competitive often feel discouraged by being much worse than everyone else. Who can honestly say that they would not feel disappointed if after 10 years of freediving your static PB is 2:55, and a total newbie next to you does 5:03? I felt that way about dynamic. There has been some recent improvement, but for a long time I felt that there was little point in my trying to improve, because despite several serious training efforts, there was not a single newbie who was worse than me. I concluded that my dynamic performance sucks. :head