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coronavirus and freediving

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,681
444
188
Shanghai
That's my guess. And I have two theories:

1. The virus escaped from the Lab
2. They released it intentionally to controll their population. Less old people to take care of.

I don't know if we will ever know the truth...

As a European who actually spent a lot of years in China with a very well developed sense of critical thinking I’d like to reply to this one. Except I hardly know where to start...
First of all, very few nations respect their elders as much as the Chinese. Northern Europeans certainly don’t. Chinese don’t just send their elders off to live in an institution - they stay with family. While this pattern is changing it’s not considered a burden.
Second of all, the One Child Policy (which can be viewed as either genius population control or a massive human rights violation or both) has led to China having 400 million less people than it would have without the policy. And it was just lifted fully a few years back as it has served its purpose.
China controls media and dissent more than most nations but If you’re committing mass killings that shit tends to be found out. Anywhere in the world. The Chinese are not lemmings. They are not an ignorant people. They are, possibly a tad desensitized to politics but I absolutely promise you that there has been massive outcries internally over the initial slow response and plenty of whistleblowers so no, a state - not even an authoritarian one - can kill its people without word getting out.

I’m honestly shocked I even have to write a reply like this.

Epidemiologists and virologists have been waiting for a “big one” for decades. The odds were more on a killer flu but many of them are not that surprised that we have this instead. It happens, it’s kinda natural. That’s a fact.
What’s also a fact is that scientists tend to think and find proof before they share their findings with the rest of us. And most often they don’t even spend energy on countering senseless conspiracy theories. It can take months, years, decades to firmly track down the origin of a new disease and in that “vacuum” conspiracies flourish. Anyone with a YouTube channel, a website, a social media account or a forum membership is a publisher now and many don’t have the patience to wait for facts.

[edit] Deleted a snide remark that I had here despite my better judgement - sorry about that.


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cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
3,966
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Sarasota, Fla
"Epidemiologists and virologists have been waiting for a “big one” for decades. The odds were more on a killer flu but many of them are not that surprised that we have this instead. It happens, it’s kinda natural. That’s a fact.
What’s also a fact is that scientists tend to think and find proof before they share their findings with the rest of us. And most often they don’t even spend energy on countering senseless conspiracy theories. It can take months, years, decades to firmly track down the origin of a new disease and in that “vacuum” conspiracies flourish. Anyone with a YouTube channel, a website, a social media account or a forum membership is a publisher now and many don’t have the patience to wait for facts.





Couldn't agree more with the the gist of your post and the emotion presented, but the last sentence is a bit snarky and not needed. Remember, this is DB.


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[/QUOTE]
 
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Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,681
444
188
Shanghai
Couldn't agree more with the the gist of your post and the emotion presented, but the last sentence is unnessarily snarky. Remember, this is DB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, if you take it out of your quote I’ll delete it, too

Actually, up to you - I’ll take it out no matter what. And yes, good point about it being DB.

Thanks for keeping me in line and stay safe everyone.


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grarena

Member
Jan 19, 2019
95
17
23
64
New Orleans
As a European who actually spent a lot of years in China with a very well developed sense of critical thinking I’d like to reply to this one. Except I hardly know where to start...
First of all, very few nations respect their elders as much as the Chinese. Northern Europeans certainly don’t. Chinese don’t just send their elders off to live in an institution - they stay with family. While this pattern is changing it’s not considered a burden.
Second of all, the One Child Policy (which can be viewed as either genius population control or a massive human rights violation or both) has led to China having 400 million less people than it would have without the policy. And it was just lifted fully a few years back as it has served its purpose.
China controls media and dissent more than most nations but If you’re committing mass killings that shit tends to be found out. Anywhere in the world. The Chinese are not lemmings. They are not an ignorant people. They are, possibly a tad desensitized to politics but I absolutely promise you that there has been massive outcries internally over the initial slow response and plenty of whistleblowers so no, a state - not even an authoritarian one - can kill its people without word getting out.

I’m honestly shocked I even have to write a reply like this.

Epidemiologists and virologists have been waiting for a “big one” for decades. The odds were more on a killer flu but many of them are not that surprised that we have this instead. It happens, it’s kinda natural. That’s a fact.
What’s also a fact is that scientists tend to think and find proof before they share their findings with the rest of us. And most often they don’t even spend energy on countering senseless conspiracy theories. It can take months, years, decades to firmly track down the origin of a new disease and in that “vacuum” conspiracies flourish. Anyone with a YouTube channel, a website, a social media account or a forum membership is a publisher now and many don’t have the patience to wait for facts.

[edit] Deleted a snide remark that I had here despite my better judgement - sorry about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

good job on explaining the Chinese way so to speak especially the elderly part. Here’s my problem. In the beginning there were denials about this. Doctors and scientists put in prison. They have been totally negligent about transparency to help the rest of the world. They won’t allow any outside epidemiologists and scientists to get to the bottom of this and find ways to slow it down or Learn what the world deserves to know. They blamed US soldiers at one point. They have lied about the seriousness upfront and the numbers they give today make no sense. They are claiming with 1.4 billion people only 80,000 infected and 3500 dead when Italy had almost the same deaths. They are saying no new cases or deaths now and that’s impossible. I agree this was not intentional. Would this have happened without the market and bats and snakes? I have no idea but this may not have been avoided but it could have been way worse if they had been transparent and I can’t even imagine anyone disagreeing with that of course I know I’m wrong on that point. China owes the world an apology but we won’t get that. The world needs help and China doesn’t seem to be willing to do that.
 
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Leander

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
327
162
58
37
Between here and nowhere
China owes the world an apology but we won’t get that.
All the world leaders need to make apologies, to each other and to the public. In the Netherlands the PM is still insisting on 'herd inmunity', which is a nice idea... on paper. The Donald made his own stories using his very un-scientific mind, sold it as the truth and then tried to cover up his own words. Also us, downplaying it as 'just a flu', even here on the forum. But apologies don't save lives, so whatever and lets get back to stopping this virus instead of getting stuck in a blame-game.

Lets get back on topic as this tread is about the influence of corona on freediving (and vice-versa), not about who's at fault.

:)
 
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Leander

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
327
162
58
37
Between here and nowhere
A friend of mine had some document passed on to her on whatsapp. It's supposed to come from a health institution, but I pressed her to check sources before believing anything.

One of the things listed was that if corona effects your lungs you would not be able to hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. It was listed as a way to self-test for the virus even in the pre-symptom stage. I can see how lung damage prevents you from holding your breath, but any ideas on this?
 

grarena

Member
Jan 19, 2019
95
17
23
64
New Orleans
The latest stats are interesting. Hospitalizations by age. Over 80 - 26%
65-80- 24%
45-65-18%
20-45 get ready for this 29%
Of course mortalities are worse the older but this is a shocking statistic. Even tho young 20-45 who think they are invincible have an extremely high hospitalization percentage.

also saw somewhere the average patient intubated on a ventilator is under 65.
 

Leander

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
327
162
58
37
Between here and nowhere
Interesting statistic. Are those percentages of the tested or the infected?

If its of the infected then it's quite surprising. However, we all (and the media too) tend to see young people as 'healthy', but unfortunately this is the year 2020. We have phones, computers, desk-jobs, cars, gmo-food, fast-food, sugar, alcohol, drugs etc, etc. Older people seem to be a bit more wise in their lifestyle choices.

It it's a percentage of the tested then it can be because younger people tend to socialize more. This category is also exactly the average office population and offices are *the* favorite habitat of bugs and virusses.
 

grarena

Member
Jan 19, 2019
95
17
23
64
New Orleans
Good question. Not sure
 

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cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
3,966
757
218
70
Sarasota, Fla
That 20-45 statistic is really different from the rest of the world (except maybe Iran). Can't find it on the attachment. Is that from the Seattle area?

What is a freediver to do, what to do??? sounds like hysterics taking hold, but its really serious question. My take, after considerable thought, was to try and not get the damn thing, at least until there is a vaccine or reliable treatment. Having been practicing sanitation and isolation for a couple of weeks, staying safe is a whole lot harder than it sounds like. Take note everybody else. The other option is get it quick, before the health system is overwhelmed, and accept the Russian roulette aspect of that. Looks like my odds of complete recovery should be better than RR, and they might as well shoot me if I can't dive. That decision is weighted by my wife, who is prone to auto-immune reactions and whose odds may be a good bit worse that mine.
 

Tangerino

Member
Apr 12, 2017
19
4
18
43
Baltimore,USA
There’s a trend in Twitter showing that China start to move again after corona virus restrictions. That gives us a hope if we follow their model which I know it’s impossible here in US or in Europe.
1584641312781.png
 

Woohoo

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
104
49
43
England
lets get back to stopping this virus instead of getting stuck in a blame-game.

Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more. Blaming the Chinese is exactly what we need to do and we need to continue doing it until changes are made that stop it happening again. What was it Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

Every major pandemic in recent times has started in China. Do you suggest we do nothing but wait for the next one and then the next one after that? Do we just stand by and watch a powerful communist country repeatedly bring the economy of the Western world to it’s knees as a direct result of it’s inhuman, immoral, repulsively unhygienic eating practices?

Anybody defending the communist Chinese government in any way shape or form, needs to have a very long chat with themselves.
 
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grarena

Member
Jan 19, 2019
95
17
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64
New Orleans
I think I started the momentum of that and although I echo your sentiments let’s try to keep the thread going in a direction that speaks to the problem. Yesterday a Hosp near mine had a 43 and 49 year on ventilators. Also the Chinese are saying the mortality rate there is not 3% but 1.4%. I’ve always believed in the end it would be right at 1% as long as the system isn’t overrun. Meanwhile in China very few new cases and deaths. I’m amazed at that if true. 1.2 billion people less deaths than Italy with 60 million.
 

Leander

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
327
162
58
37
Between here and nowhere
Anybody defending the communist Chinese government in any way shape or form, needs to have a very long chat with themselves.

Shall we move the blame-game to a separate thread in The Beach Bar? Blaming has nothing to do with science, which, according to the title of this group, the threads here should be about.

Fwiw, I do defend their culture, even if it's for the sole reason of it being their culture, including their eating habits and market practises, not our culture. You can't judge them using our culture as ruler. Why are we right and they wrong? Are we special? We're different players with different tactics, playing the same game. Best we can do is htfu and learn from this how we can prevent this from repeating at our side, something we now did a very sloppy job at, even though we had some practise rounds with ebola (which did not have a Chinese origin) and other infections.

Perhaps sharing of information and scientific material, and making steps together can lead to increased world health and security, but blaming certainly does not.

Meanwhile in China very few new cases and deaths. I’m amazed at that if true. 1.2 billion people less deaths than Italy with 60 million.
One thing is for sure, the Mediterranean people don't like to follow orders and their governments are slow, chaotic and often on the limit of resources. I guess this too is a difference between (South-) European and Asian cultures. The amount of infections can be easily lied about, but a mass dying cannot.
 
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grarena

Member
Jan 19, 2019
95
17
23
64
New Orleans
Also Italy has the oldest population in Europe and they are a friendly social culture speaking of cultures. Speaking of science China could have been more transparent even you would agree. You are not quick to blame China and I understand the cultural differences tho we don’t get it it’s their culture and no we aren’t better. I also catch a tone we aren’t doing our part and testing is where the US has been deficient but otherwise I think the US finally got the memo. Trump did a good job with banning Travel early on which helped.
 

Woohoo

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
104
49
43
England
Shall we move the blame-game to a separate thread in The Beach Bar?

Fair comment. I shall probably do that later today. Look forward to hearing your opinions.

I guess this too is a difference between (South-) European and Asian cultures. The amount of infections can be easily lied about, but a mass dying cannot.

You think the Chinese government can’t and wouldn’t lie about the number of fatalities?? They’ve just kicked out all Western media from the country for goodness sake.

The reason for the numbers in Italy couldn’t be more straight forward. They have a very elderly population and have a direct link including direct flights with Wuhan. They outsourced their fashion industry to the Chinese, specifically from the Wuhan area. The number of Infected people entering Northern Italy would have been higher than anywhere else in the world.
 

cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
3,966
757
218
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Sarasota, Fla
I don't trust the Chinese government as far as I can spit and their political system probably guaranteed that their initial response was coverup, but it seems incontestable that their lockdowns have beaten the virus. The Koreans did the same with far less interference in daily life and economic damage. They only dithered a few days, got serious starting in the latter part of Feb, had a major drive through testing program running by March 1 and had beaten the virus spread by March 10.

In contrast, the US is facing a much more serious medical and economic hit. Trump did the right thing by closing travel to China early, then utterly wasted the time that action bought. We still don't have a system in place that can beat the virus, and the national government response seems chaotic even now.
State and local governments are all over the map. Drastic social distancing is the only available weapon right now and it has huge economic costs. Testing is coming fast, but IMHO not fast enough to avoid a huge hit.

So much for the blame game.

On a better note, mass testing, at least in Florida, is coming very fast. Drive thru sites are popping up all over. Its going to take a while to work the bugs out of the system, but its coming. Just hope somebody is figuring out how to use cel phone or other tracking data to make testing effective and how to handle all the individual quarantines that will result.

The question becomes: Can the US (and other western countries) implement a S Korea style system that allows us to get rid of the worst economic impacts of social distancing before they push us into a very severe recession/depression.
 
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