cuda killer

[rigdvr]

Hey Don...looks like yall lucked out on storms again, which means I didn't! Anyway here goes my soapbox again. Lets say you happen along a big AJ within range, I have seen scuba divers hit them(with attached lines) and within seconds be 100 ft deeper than where they shot the fish...quite entertaining as it looks like the Starship Enterprise hitting warpdrive. Another scenario...cobia(ling to you Texans) almost always head into the rig and run around legs, if he gets notted up you could have to leave gun and all belowand hope he doesnt get it undone or worse yet you play human pinball in the legs (back in the day rig divers wore helmets for this reason!) I wish I had a simpler solution than a floatline but I dont...

 

[Abriapnea]

Don , here's an idea that you could possibly modify to suit your needs based on a deepwater setup I use : How about a coiled line in a container that will release under tension a couple of metres behind your gun , with an inflatable float behind it . Rig a CO2 canister to the float but keep it deflated while spearing . If you encounter a fish you can't get to the surface toggle the CO2 which will deploy your line and you can fight it from the surface .
Don't know if this will work for you , I really don't know anything about rigdiving , but perhaps you can adapt something from this .
Happy hunting .

 

[donmoore]

Abriapnea,
Thanks for the advice. I think I have made something pretty close to your description. It looks good, but I am waiting to try it in real life before I post some pictures and descriptions. I’ve made some things already that looked pretty good on land, but when I tested them, unforeseen problems developed.
Don

 

[icarus pacific]

Hey, how about...

You get the tool pusher on the rig to zswing the loading crane arm out over you. Then rig a swivel to tie your 1/16" cable to the 1-1/2" cable on the crane. Then duct tape a Sub surface of Dynamics tungsten /halide lamp to the cable, that way you can see. And then take a bungie and make it off to the crane's hok to your gun, that way you can drop the gun when the deck guy slides down a tray of coffee and pastry! Yeah!!

:head

You're making it hard on yourself, (as does Anderson, by himself) with all the diddling around with drop lines, coils and such. The homeworks already been done for you, your welcome, with a floater, as in a floatline and bouy. Though it's fun dicking around with gear and all, by the time you add up the $2.50 - 5.00 here and there, plus your time and add the headshaking the better half is doing behind your rugged, unshaven mug... Don, buddy, go get a no BS floater, a couple hard, plastic net floats and love life.

Before you get any ideas on putting together a "Riding Rig", don't. (Sultan's note: a riding rig is a loop of rope, often manila or polypropylene, attached to the end of the shooting line. You shoot the cuda and you act as the floatline, buoy and parachute, as the loop is around your wrist!! Yeah.:duh I had occasion to try this once and that was enough, thanks. I've never descended faster and in a straighter line towards a pile of rusting steel before.

If the DB store doesn't have a floater on sale, go to Pirate Scuba, drop a nickel there and take the sweetie to dinner with the grief you'll save.


sven

 

[rigdvr]

Glad someone else here knows what a riding rig is...figures it would be you Sven! That idea is just plain dangerous:crutch
Guess thats why we call our tournaments "rodeos"!

 

[Amphibious]

Did that with a LARGE jack off Karan Island. only had a 30ft floating line - just hugged the rescue can and went for a ride - kinda fun acctually.....

But on a serious note, a kid got killed off my beach, a few years before I started hunting, with a "riding rig". 150lbs+ grouper. they never did find the body.


Willer

 

[rigdvr]

We lose a couple of scuba boys here each year to the riding rigs...for some reason they say it is even harder to let go of the rig than it is the entire gun Last year we had a diver killed by a cobia that towed him through the rig, his head had barnacles bedded all in it.

 

[Abriapnea]

Hell yes , I agree that a line/float is the best option , merely gave Donmoore an option that should be doable . I use 30m. dyneema coiled to release under tension as a second line behind my 40 m primary line . My first buoy is 3.5l incompressible , second is a big lifesaving buoy .
I use this setup for marlin , sailies ect .
Those riding rigs sound plain stupid ...:duh

 

[Shadowkiller]

:hmm
Heres me thinking: "Gee it be pretty cool to try rig diving like Sven and the boys..."

But after those stories.. :crutch
I think I'll stick to my shallow reef and jetty diving thanks!:girlie

 

[donmoore]

i'm getting tired of this

One of the joys of spearfishing is that there is room for people to have personal opinions and choose the equipment they feel bests suits their needs. To have concerns is one thing, but to think you absolutely know what is best is silly, stupid, and naive. Your concern for riding rigs sounds legitimate, but to equate what I have said to riding rigs is ridiculous.

Myself and Abriapnea were merely talking about a float system that instead of always being at the surface, deflates and goes with the diver and gun until it is needed. It inflates and is free of diver, thereby allowing the diver to ascend, not follow it through the rig structure, etc.. upon one of two actions; 1. self triggering by the diver, 2. letting go of the gun.

If this is beyond your simple comprehension, then I suggest you hold your criticism until see some pictures and read the description.
Don

 

[icarus pacific]

Wha?

Huh? Hey ease up Sunshine! Nobody here, at least from what I've been reading is telling you, Abri or anyone else they're fulla shit! What's with the comprehension issues?? I comprende great, that's why I contributed my take on it. And seeing as you're fairly new to this and will undoubtedly hear the term riding rig, to warn you off it. My post was just put in such a way as to let you know that you're in for a heck of a complicated learning curve that's already been done for you. Pretty decent of me, I'd think, but that's just me...

You wanna go and experiment, hey by allllll means. That's what's fun about this, the dicking around with stuff and laughing when you go back to what works.

I was thinking that maybe you'd want to go the easy route first... that's all. sheeesh.


sven

 

[andrsn]

don,

how about 15m foam-filled polypro rope w/ no bouy? i've used this setup quite a few times when there were lobster traps in the area. my bouy would always get caught up in them, and when you had to swim back to untangle them and then go catch back up to your drifting boat... :head anyways, just the line would slip right past everything, but allowed me to keep my gun tethered while i went up to the surface for air.

i was thinking about the co2 rig, and thought of this... if you get the co2 cartridge to go off, then the container you were filling would have to have a vent(due to amt of compressed gas let out and also the fact that the container would eventually head towards the surface). i'd imagine w/o one, the container would explode as it ascended. but, if the fish was pulling sideways, what's to keep the gas from exscaping and then losing bouyancy in the container?

another thought... if you were to solve the gas containment prob, why not have a breakaway system so that if the fish was too big for your liking, you could pull a release cord and let the fish swim off w/ your spear and shooting line... but, have your release trigger a lift bag attatched to the end of your shooting line.


anderson

 

[rigdvr]

:naughty Who the hell was that intended for b/c I didnt read any of that into the posts here? I dont believe anyone was attacking your ideas or creativity Don, so please don't take it as that. As naive as I seem I will guarantee you that your rig WILL NOT WORK on a 100 lb AJ if you get lucky enough to see one:t

BTW-nobody said you were using a riding rig...we were simply discussing what one is.

 

[donmoore]

Sven,
I am sorry if I took you wrong. I look forward to exchanging ideas with you in the future.

Anderson,
Your foamed filled rope is an interesting idea. I would be worry that it would get wrapped in the legs of the rig and stuck in the coral. More than once I have had to dive down and free the boat anchor rope from the legs, just because it got some slack in it and the coral grabbed it when it came in contact.

On the pressure increasing problem as the buoy goes to the surface is already solved via a pressure relief valve. It was one of the required features when I was looking for a inflatable buoy. What I am using was designed for this purpose. It's even called a “Spearfishing Buoy” by its manufacture. You can see it at http://www.carterbag.com/spearfish.html. The only difference in mine is I asked Dave Carter to make it a little bigger. I believe the one the web page provides 30 lbs of lift and mine should do 50lbs.

Rigdvr,
Your statement, “I will guarantee you that your rig WILL NOT WORK on a 100 lb AJ” is exactly the kind of statement that I take offensive too. How do you know for certain it will not work? You haven’t even seen it yet. Are you God?

There is nothing wrong with having opinions; its when you think everyone has to believe as you do, is when things get out of hand. Unlike you, I believe it will work. Notice I prefaced my opinion with “I believe” thereby allowing for error on my part and to acknowledge that there are other people with other opinions that may also work.


My use of a broadhead speartip to increase the chance of stoning a fish and or at the least, weaking it sooner by severing major nerves and arteries, is like the inflatable buoy, is not an original idea. There is already a reputable spear gun manufacture producing these for the very same reasons I outline.

The characteristics of the broadhead fits well with the inflatable buoy. An inflatable buoy is not going to be a robust as a hard foam filled buoy. The advantage of the broadhead is more damage done to the fish which results is less fight. This fits well with a float system that only deploys if needed. If the float is needed, the time the fish is able to pull it through the water and objects should be lessen.

Sure there will be disadvantages to this system, but there are disadvantages to any system. It all boils down to which disadvantages are you willing to put up with. I personally like the freedom of knowing I can do where ever I want to without worrying about the path of a surface float above me. If the path of the surface float doesn’t bother someone and they like the security of knowing their float will not puncture and should always be there to keep you from losing their gun, or spear if it’s a breakaway system, then by all means, they should use hard surface float.
Thanks for hearing me out,
Don

PS I want to acknowledge Jay’s excellent though of putting a flopper behind the broadhead. I will probably give this idea a try, if I determine the percent of losing fish is too high.

 

[andrsn]

don,

50lbs of lift is quite a bit. remember that if you don't get a perfect shot, 50lbs of lift might rip your spear loose. especially on a big fish.

the bouy-less floatline... well, for one, they float so that would take care of the coral on the bottom, but for the sticky, barnacle laden rig legs,.. well that's another problem. you could always go w/ vinyl tubing. aquiles makes his own and likes them more than my polypro stuff. they're slick and will slide through anything.

the broadhead... from my experience, they all follow a helixed path (ie. they corkscrew). doesn't sound good for your accuracy unless you're freeshafting a tabless spear. can you tell me more about them?

hey, please take into consideration that there are quite a few old salts here. i think most have seen their fair share of accidents and ALL wish they'd of done something to prevent them. having knowledge of only your wife as your backup kinda puts most of us in an awkward position. especially since you're a bit new to the sport.

please stay safe and keep running these ideas through the forums. criticism is bound to happen, but take it for what it's worth, but don't take your life for anything less. :t

anderson

 

[donmoore]

Anderson,
The concern of ripping the spear lose from fish may be valid. I have yet to deploy the bag so I really don’t know what will happen. I suppose ripping lose would depend on several factors. As I have said earlier, all my hits with my MT-5 has resulted in the shaft penetrating the fish so the whole shaft becomes the stopper. If the shaft didn’t penetrate the fish or it only secured a small amount of flesh, then pulling through would probably happened, but this would probably happen just from me pulling on the gun before the buoy ever was activated.

I don’t think the particular broadhead I am using corkscrews. There are 100’s of archery broadheads on the market and I did see some that I could tell did. I haven’t noticed it doing it in practice, but it would be hard to see from behind the gun. My line is not anymore twisted though than when using the Riffe 2 barb spearhead or the ice pike. I have had better luck on long shots with the broadhead than the 2 barb spearhead. Riffe large 2 bard speartip is so big and heavy it seems, calculating the fall rate was difficult. My two longest hits of about 12 feet each have been with the broadhead.

Right now I consider a slightly higher rate of ripping-off worth the gain of freedom and being able to get into a better shooting position. So far the number of fish that I’ve put in the cooler is several times higher than the number that got away. If some big ones start ripping off, you can be beat I will be back in the boat putting on the ice pike or 2 bard spearhead.

Thanks for the advice,
Don

 

[donmoore]

Anderson,
The vinyl tubing floatline sounds like a good idea. If it really glides through anything, I might put some around my rig tie off anchor rope as well.
Don

 

[andrsn]

how are you attatching the broadheads? can you post pics?

and i forgot you were holding the gun to the cuda's heads before you pulled the trigger. what, they wouldn't hand over their wallets?

have you gotten a chance to tag anything besides mr. cuda?

anderson

 

[rigdvr]

Don...i hope you prove me wrong but I still stand behind my statement even though I am not God...I'm not even a sultan yet for that matter!
Happy hunting,
Mike

 

[donmoore]

Thanks Mike