Cycling shoes for monofin use...

[noa]

With more people starting to use foil monofins such as the Dolfin and the Lunocet, comes the subject of cycling shoes used with them.
It would be great to share what is currently being used and why. All information would then help future purchasers in making more educated choices.

 

[neurodoc]

I am currently using Specialized cycling shoes with a Lunocet fin. They would probably work equally well on a DOL-fin or any other system designed to work with cycling shoes. Pros: I had them already being an avid cyclist, carbon sole, composite vented upper that doesn't rot easily and dries out quickly. Easy to put on and off, two velcro straps and one ratchet strap. Specialized has made a "special" effort to offer many different sizing options to better fit people (did the same thing with their bicycle seats) so more sizes available than many brands. Cons: the ratchet strap buckle is not very hydrodynamic; kind of sticks out to the side. I'm not very hydrodynamic either, due to, ummm, lots of body hair, so not too much of an issue. I plan on trying out lycra cycling shoe covers made for aerodynamics, when I use a lycra body suit or wetsuit. No other cons that I see, though a cycling shoe with the "boa system" would be more hydrodynamic since nothing sticks out on the sides. I have been using Armor-All, a vinyl protectant product from the auto industry, on the shoes. Seems to help them stay fresh and not show signs of chlorine damage. Nice and supple still!

 

[noa]

Neurodoc, thanks a lot for your info.
There are so many parameters to factor in for using cycling shoes with monofins. Hydrodynamics, materials, reliability, longevity in water etc...
Although they work, or at least can work quite well, one has to consider how adequately a certain model can cross over from land to water.

 

[Xaid]

This is my first time contributing to this forum, I recently joined to learn more about hydro foil monofin swimming. I have read pretty much everything that I could find on the net about the development of the Dol-fin and the Lunocet. Needless to say I am very excited to receive the Lunocet Pro! I talked to Ted a few days ago, and he said that production is in full swing now. So what am I to do in the mean time? Shop for shoes of course!

No cycling shoe seems to be exactly adapted to our use, so it comes down to finding the shoe that does the best at becoming the underwater footpocket that we need it to be. Wouldnt that be cool in a few years if one of the major brands came out with an underwater model targeted at fluke swimmers? If the sport continues to grow, if will only be a matter of time.

It seems to me that looking at all the models currently available, that triathlon shoes seem to have most of the characteristics that we are looking for:
- 2 straps of velcro to secure the foot (no tongue),
- they are made to drain water, rather than absorb it.
- most are lower profile than the average road cycling shoe.
- interiors are made seemless, made to be worn with no socks at all
- most are made a full carbon or carbon composite sole.

As far as the system of shoe closing, there is a lot to choose from. For me, I think the velcro might be the best for my purposes. The "boa" system that is very popular in some higher end shoes, would be the lowest profile. However, for anyone who plans to wear them in salt water, that would be a deal killer. Same with the buckle straps. I did see that Giro made a lace up shoe, that might work well (maybe with bungee cord?) but I ultimately rejected that idea. So for lack of a better option, I think velcro might still be the best, I don't really know though.

The soles of cycling shoes vary greatly from company to company, but after feeling the stiffness of several different types, I can say that there is a big difference in stiffness between a carbon or carbon composite shoe and cheaper plastic and fiberglass soles. The full carbon shoes are the stiffest, but they start in price at about $300-350. The next best is carbon composite (carbon fiber and plastic). These start out at about $150-200. Below that are usually some mix of plastic and fiberglass. Ultimately I settled on the Sidi T2 carbon composite triathlon shoe.
http://www.thebikeworks.com/bw_product/sidi-t2/

I would love to here about other thoughts about this subject, things like: the best shoe covers for reducing drag. Also, what is the best fit for this type of shoe? My guess would be that in most cases, going down a size might be a good idea?

 

[marginatus]

I have also ordered the lunocet pro and started (already finished) the shoe hunt.
Fro me, from all I had read and tought, I wanted carbon composite sole for for power transfer (rigidity) and also a "raqueting" closure because there will be considerable forces against the top of the shoe... this also allows for easy adjustment (more/less tight). This will have more drag but will allow for less foot "play". I also wanted to keep the price down.... I ended up with a discontinued Shimano model R133 that had all of this and at a killer price. Fit wise, I tested some Shimano shoes locally with my 3mm socks.

Maybe there could be some kind of velcro or rubber strap that could go around the mounting plate in the fin and the top of the shoes to "hold" the pull... what do you think?

 

[noa]

Xaid, you make good points and I agree with what you say about triathlon shoes.
However, not having a tongue on the top is something probably not desired. Most of the force is actually on the down stroke, thus the upper part of the shoe. If there is no tongue to receive and transfer that power, I believe a lot of energy will be lost.

 

[Xaid]

Noa, I also was concerned about the no tongue feature in the tri shoe, but for different reason. I believe the tongue is more a feature for comfort rather than support. The tri shoes that I tried on did not seem lacking in upper foot support, as the larger top strap cinches over the foot quite securely. I am concerned about creating a sensitive pressure point on the top of the foot, without the tongue as padding. I think that it will be ok with some booties, but I dont have them yet, so I cant really say. I will definitely write my experiences when I get a chance to swim a bit with them.

 

[marginatus]

Noa, I also was concerned about the no tongue feature in the tri shoe, but for different reason. I believe the tongue is more a feature for comfort rather than support. The tri shoes that I tried on did not seem lacking in upper foot support, as the larger top strap cinches over the foot quite securely. I am concerned about creating a sensitive pressure point on the top of the foot, without the tongue as padding. I think that it will be ok with some booties, but I dont have them yet, so I cant really say. I will definitely write my experiences when I get a chance to swim a bit with them.

Yeah.... we'll have to wait... getting the fin shipped is another story....

 

[Philip Fennell]

I have also ordered the lunocet pro and started (already finished) the shoe hunt.
Fro me, from all I had read and tought, I wanted carbon composite sole for for power transfer (rigidity) and also a "raqueting" closure because there will be considerable forces against the top of the shoe... this also allows for easy adjustment (more/less tight). This will have more drag but will allow for less foot "play". I also wanted to keep the price down.... I ended up with a discontinued Shimano model R133 that had all of this and at a killer price. Fit wise, I tested some Shimano shoes locally with my 3mm socks.

Maybe there could be some kind of velcro or rubber strap that could go around the mounting plate in the fin and the top of the shoes to "hold" the pull... what do you think?

I too have ordered a Luncet Pro, and my shoe hunt is still in progress. Thanks to comments in this forum I'm considering a Triathlon shoe and the top of my list is the Bont Riot TR (shame it has to be white but that seems to be the predominant colour of Triathlon shoes at the moment). When I get a chance to try some on I'll get a feel for the tongue/no-tongue debate. The Riot TR is well recommended in this review from triradar.com and is good value at £100 ($168) for a shoe with a Carbon composite sole. Normally you have to pay half as much again for that feature.

I'm still waiting to receive the 3mm neoprene sock I intend to wear with them so I've been trying some shoes with a thick waterproof walking sock from SealSkinz.

As an aside, the Bont Crono looks like the ultimate shoe for the Lunocet as it appears to be very streamlined at the heel too which would be important as it will spend all its time going backwards when attached to a mono-fin! But, at £400+ it is rather expensive!

A more general comment on cycling shoes for mono-fins comes to mind regarding safety. Of the four types of closure system, Laces, Boa, Ratchet strap and Velcro it occurs to me that if you had to get out of the shoes in a hurry, ditch the fin, that the quickest release system would be the best/safest. Laces are a non-starter, the boa strikes me as too fiddly and with neoprene gloves that might prove a problem as would the ratchet strap. So that leaves Velcro and with one big tab that you get with a Triathlon shoe that's the choice that leaps out at me.

Has anyone who has or currently uses that, or some of the other types, of closure system got any views on this?


Regards

Philip

 

[cdavis]

Just found this thread. Good one, Noa.

I've had Shimano RT31's going on 3 years on my Dol-fin. Plastic sole, velcro closure. Very comfy. The shoes are looking pretty worn these days(lots of use), but seem to work perfectly, so far. The Dolfin structure doesn't allow the shoe to flex, so an extremely stiff sole isn't necessary. Further, the force you exert is spread over a wide area of the sole, so there are no issues with breaking the shoes, i.e. expensive carbon soles aren't needed. The shoes had ferrous parts in the buckles, which were destroyed by salt water fairly fast. Easy to fix with heavy mono. The velcro closure strap across the top of the shoe isn't very streamlined and I've thought about cutting some of it off, since there is no need for most of it. Getting into the fin, I wish it was faster. Getting out is very fast.

Connor

 

[noa]

I too have ordered a Luncet Pro, and my shoe hunt is still in progress. Thanks to comments in this forum I'm considering a Triathlon shoe and the top of my list is the Bont Riot TR (shame it has to be white but that seems to be the predominant colour of Triathlon shoes at the moment). When I get a chance to try some on I'll get a feel for the tongue/no-tongue debate. The Riot TR is well recommended in this review from triradar.com and is good value at £100 ($168) for a shoe with a Carbon composite sole. Normally you have to pay half as much again for that feature.

I'm still waiting to receive the 3mm neoprene sock I intend to wear with them so I've been trying some shoes with a thick waterproof walking sock from SealSkinz.

As an aside, the Bont Crono looks like the ultimate shoe for the Lunocet as it appears to be very streamlined at the heel too which would be important as it will spend all its time going backwards when attached to a mono-fin! But, at £400+ it is rather expensive!

A more general comment on cycling shoes for mono-fins comes to mind regarding safety. Of the four types of closure system, Laces, Boa, Ratchet strap and Velcro it occurs to me that if you had to get out of the shoes in a hurry, ditch the fin, that the quickest release system would be the best/safest. Laces are a non-starter, the boa strikes me as too fiddly and with neoprene gloves that might prove a problem as would the ratchet strap. So that leaves Velcro and with one big tab that you get with a Triathlon shoe that's the choice that leaps out at me.

Has anyone who has or currently uses that, or some of the other types, of closure system got any views on this?


Regards

Philip

Yes the Crono would most likely make an amazing shoe. But at that price, not many will buy it for a monofin.

 

[noa]

Just found this thread. Good one, Noa.

I've had Shimano RT31's going on 3 years on my Dol-fin. Plastic sole, velcro closure. Very comfy. The shoes are looking pretty worn these days(lots of use), but seem to work perfectly, so far. The Dolfin structure doesn't allow the shoe to flex, so an extremely stiff sole isn't necessary. Further, the force you exert is spread over a wide area of the sole, so there are no issues with breaking the shoes, i.e. expensive carbon soles aren't needed. The shoes had ferrous parts in the buckles, which were destroyed by salt water fairly fast. Easy to fix with heavy mono. The velcro closure strap across the top of the shoe isn't very streamlined and I've thought about cutting some of it off, since there is no need for most of it. Getting into the fin, I wish it was faster. Getting out is very fast.

Connor

I believe that for the Lunocet, one would want a carbon sole. Also, Velcro closure is at this point the easiest and most reliable option, but the penalty is fairly bad hydrodynamics.

 

[alphazo]

Just ordered the new Lunocet Pro 2015. Now comes the questions of the shoes. What are your recommendations after few months of real world use ?

• Fizik R5 Uomo (carbon composite and well meshed)
  
• Sidi Genius 5 Fit Carbon (with buckle)
  
• Mavic Avenge (Carbon composite with buckle)
  
• Shimano R064 (cheap but no carbon)
  
• Specialized Sport RBX Road (looks cool)
  
• Sidi T2 (Triathlon shoes, carbon composite, horrible colors)
• Bont Riot TR (Triathlon shoes, carbon composite, larger ventilation holes, only in white, enough top support?)
  
• Shimano TR32 (Triathlon shoes, single strap, only in white)

Thanks everybody.

 

[Chipswim]

Alphazo!

Congrats on your 2015 Lunocet order !!!! Looking forward to your impressions.

My guess is any of the above will work. After that preferences and details abound....

My current 2014 Luno is on its third set of shoes... I guess that says something good about the survivability of the Lunocet.

I have another 2012 Luno still with the same original shoes on it.

All have been Shimano. I've come to prefer carbon soles and ratcheting top buckles as

my two favorite criteria. ..... But have used those without.


Not all Velcro is able to stand our abuse but some swimmers do well with Velcro closures only. I've had good and not so good Velcro from a single manufacturing brand name.

Non carbon soles are just fine too....until the instant they break.

Eventually the shoes will fail in my experience. Tops can pull away from the soles. At least two of us have had that experience.

It is ok though. The shoes work fantastic till they don't .... which has been about 100 hours of swimming for me. They aren't designed to be stressed as we stress them.... Pulling on the toes and constantly flexing the soles.

I like the shoes to look cool too but that is mostly for admiring my fin out of the water. A hydrodynamic shape seems nice too. If I were young and single those two features would be extra good for picking up chicks! Few can resist asking about your fin.....

I like my feet to stay cool so I wear fabric socks in pool water. Calf high athletic compression socks may glide a bit better with a shorty skin suit because they keep the calf muscle from flopping or flowing or waving... What is a better word there?

 

[Ichthys]

Has anyone ever tried mating a Bont to the Lunocet? I'm eyeing the Vaypor, as a good carbon-soled option.

 

[Chipswim]

They look nice EXCEPT..... There is not a third closure across the toes! I think being able to tighten there is very important!

 

[noa]

I used Bont Riots. Good shoes, great value for money with a fantastic sole but average upper materials and assembly/finishing. The new vapor (boa closure) would be my choice given a bigger budget.

 

[Ichthys]

That was my first thought, Chip, but then I noticed that the bottom strap actually starts at the toes, loops on the opposite side a little further up, and then up again to velcro over the middle of the foot. So it actually stands in the place of two straps. Seems elegant, thought I'm not sure whether it's as strong as the alternative. noa seems to like it.

noa, I would actually rather save a little money and go with the Riots, but I'm concerned about the composite sole failing, because I WILL be putting it under a lot of stress. That's why I was looking at the Vaypor--it's straight carbon weave, rather than the nylon+carbon composite. If I thought the composite would hold up, I would go for it.

 

[Chipswim]

Some of those new closures are cool. I haven't used them though. They need to be secure!

I've been experimenting with two pairs of shimanos.... One flex 6 (composite) one flex 11 ( carbon ). They are vastly different!

Rubber pockets on hyper fins flex as part of the design. That part of the flex is a swimmers choice variable on Lunocets we haven't talked of much!

look how much flex 6 bends with the pressure of one hand! I think a solid peduncle might work with these shoes!?!?? I switched to the flex 11's for tomorrow. I'll take a similar flex photo. They are nearly solid in comparison. The flex designed into the peduncle spring provides nearly all the total flex.

I'm suddenly realizing this is a huge variable!!!!!

 

[Chipswim]

You can see some she fitting details I've been striving to improve..... Perfect arch fit, a toe grip area, and heel security in addition to the regular closure which I tightened by adding a neoprene liner to the tongue of the shoe.

The secure shoe fit is quite noticeable while swimming. To me much more crucial than on the bike where comfort is king.