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Different training programs
- Thread starterpasanen
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Thanks Dive deeper, I'm pleased to help freedivers communicate their love.
I agree with Simos. From a Neuro Linguistic Programming point of view, using the words like "risk" will trigger reactions within your mother that PREVENT her from thinking and considering. Name calling usually works on similar grounds.
It's very unlikely that she will ever like you to see or know you're doing freediving.
She will not give you permission because she's in fear. Every time you ask you practice and reinforce her fear. Have you got a father who may be willing to support you doing a course - even coming along? - I must say my father is fearful of freediving too.
I think it's best to safe up for when you're 18 and find yourself a course. Maybe notify your parents, but not asking permission because you can make that decision yourself. And you value your safety and you find your safety in study and knowledge.
Furthermore you can show your response ability by autonomously taking good and thoughtful care of yourself and others. You go out prepared, you control your impulses and you behave like a gentleman and care for peoples needs.
Freediving is a very safe sport, when you know what your doing and act responsible.
For improving your communication you can look into this: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-129JLTjkQ]YouTube - The Basics of Non Violent Communication 1.1‏[/ame]
Your mother her needs for your safety are evident. You can give her that. What you cannot give her is the idea and position that she is the ultimate decider in YOUR life.
Letting go that control is not easy, but it's necessary. Otherwise you won't learn to control yourself, build up a lot of frustration, and go overboard on all the things she has ever forbidden you once she's NOT present.
Taking a course is a very responsible act.
Love, Courage and Water,
kars
I agree with Simos. From a Neuro Linguistic Programming point of view, using the words like "risk" will trigger reactions within your mother that PREVENT her from thinking and considering. Name calling usually works on similar grounds.
It's very unlikely that she will ever like you to see or know you're doing freediving.
She will not give you permission because she's in fear. Every time you ask you practice and reinforce her fear. Have you got a father who may be willing to support you doing a course - even coming along? - I must say my father is fearful of freediving too.
I think it's best to safe up for when you're 18 and find yourself a course. Maybe notify your parents, but not asking permission because you can make that decision yourself. And you value your safety and you find your safety in study and knowledge.
Furthermore you can show your response ability by autonomously taking good and thoughtful care of yourself and others. You go out prepared, you control your impulses and you behave like a gentleman and care for peoples needs.
Freediving is a very safe sport, when you know what your doing and act responsible.
For improving your communication you can look into this: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-129JLTjkQ]YouTube - The Basics of Non Violent Communication 1.1‏[/ame]
Your mother her needs for your safety are evident. You can give her that. What you cannot give her is the idea and position that she is the ultimate decider in YOUR life.
Letting go that control is not easy, but it's necessary. Otherwise you won't learn to control yourself, build up a lot of frustration, and go overboard on all the things she has ever forbidden you once she's NOT present.
Taking a course is a very responsible act.
Love, Courage and Water,
kars
Thanks again for your concern Kars and Simos. I really appreciate the fact that youre going through so much trouble just to help a complete stranger
. Makes complete sense that if i mention the word risk, my mother's fear will be reinforced. And I don't really blame my mother; in fact I'm touched that she cares so much. But perhaps, caring TOO much is not such a great parent virtue. As you said, you need to let children explore who they are, and if you keep them in a bubble they will not enjoy life.
Yes, my father is a fellow scuba diver, (or "bubbler") rofl, that, although he doesn't really prohibit it, he definitely shows his strong opposition to freediving. Perhaps, when I turn 18, he wouldn't mind taking me to a course; but for now, I really doubt it.
About the video, I love how he stresses how everybody loses when we play the game of "Who's right"? I guess fighting with my mom will never convince her or lessen her grasp on me.
Thanks again for everything!
If you take one of William Trubridge's courses , he will tell you how to train. I (and my training group)use his programs based on hyper-capnic training . It is more effective than hypoxic training.
Three days on , one day off for rest-
Freediving Courses - Vertical Blue Freediving Apnea Academy
Three days on , one day off for rest-
Freediving Courses - Vertical Blue Freediving Apnea Academy
Hahaha if my mom doesn't even let me apply for the local course, I don't think she'll be too eager to let me fly off to Dean's Blue Hole to train with Trubridge. Wish I could though =)
Outside of tables and maxes in the pool, there are a couple of other training drills that may help:
Sprints: Article: New Training Drills
Something more horrific than tables: Article: the most evil Freediving drill. Ever.
Hope that helps.
Sprints: Article: New Training Drills
Something more horrific than tables: Article: the most evil Freediving drill. Ever.
Hope that helps.
Hi, I'm beginner but I have improved my dry static best from 2 minutes to 5 in three weeks. Today I got over 5 minutes which makes me very happy
Main training exercise are three (or more) dry statics in the morning. Second thing are CO2 tables, because I think it pushes me forward a lot next day. And the last thing is training my lungs by very intensive swimming, running or biking (from half to one hour on the edge between aerobic and anaerobic).
I don't train every day. I do these exercises only when I feel well. I don't train in water too much because there is extremely cold water in our pool and I haven't my buddy yet.
EDIT: Numbers in tables mean: Intro, Breath hold(max), Increase hold time, Initial rest time, Decrease rest by, loops.
Main training exercise are three (or more) dry statics in the morning. Second thing are CO2 tables, because I think it pushes me forward a lot next day. And the last thing is training my lungs by very intensive swimming, running or biking (from half to one hour on the edge between aerobic and anaerobic).
I don't train every day. I do these exercises only when I feel well. I don't train in water too much because there is extremely cold water in our pool and I haven't my buddy yet.
EDIT: Numbers in tables mean: Intro, Breath hold(max), Increase hold time, Initial rest time, Decrease rest by, loops.
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Hi Pote,
Nice contribution can you help us out with deciphering your table code?
Your observations are inspiring within me questions. For instance how long the CO2 table effect lasts.
I also wonder how effective the physical training is. My guess is you already were a pretty fit guy before starting training. I suspect splitting your aerobic and anaerobe training would be more effective. Being on that edge, or just below, is good for cultivating good cardio, but at the same time you're promoting better aerobic (gas exchange bandwidth) from your bloodstream and your muscles. Which is detrimental to dynamic in my experience. Anyway this is my current working hypothesis.
Interesting post, mind the apnea overtraining issue, and remember to work on the mental skills as well.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
Nice contribution
can you help us out with deciphering your table code?Your observations are inspiring within me questions. For instance how long the CO2 table effect lasts.
I also wonder how effective the physical training is. My guess is you already were a pretty fit guy before starting training. I suspect splitting your aerobic and anaerobe training would be more effective. Being on that edge, or just below, is good for cultivating good cardio, but at the same time you're promoting better aerobic (gas exchange bandwidth) from your bloodstream and your muscles. Which is detrimental to dynamic in my experience. Anyway this is my current working hypothesis.
Interesting post, mind the apnea overtraining issue, and remember to work on the mental skills as well.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
Hi Kars, thanks for your advices.
It's true that I don't think about my physical training too much. I just ride to our local highest hill as fast as I can. If I go little bit faster I would have to stop. Simple, but it's also fun for me beating my best times.
I can't say how long CO2 table effect last. Next day I just feel more comfortable during holding my breath. I'm not sure about other days in my case.
I think I'm quite fit. I'm 25 years old and whole my life I do some sport. But never on professional level. Just for fun.
I don't think that tree weeks can really change something in my body. It's too short time. I suspect that I'm just searching my limits that I had before I started training, but I didn't know them. Anyway it helps me so I do it
It's true that I don't think about my physical training too much. I just ride to our local highest hill as fast as I can. If I go little bit faster I would have to stop. Simple, but it's also fun for me beating my best times.
I can't say how long CO2 table effect last. Next day I just feel more comfortable during holding my breath. I'm not sure about other days in my case.
I think I'm quite fit. I'm 25 years old and whole my life I do some sport. But never on professional level. Just for fun.
I don't think that tree weeks can really change something in my body. It's too short time. I suspect that I'm just searching my limits that I had before I started training, but I didn't know them. Anyway it helps me so I do it
Interesting stuff, but I'm surprised that no-one has included yoga in their training schedules in this thread.
The suggested training is all quite high intensity-body focussed work, but for me I have more trouble training my mind for freediving than my body! I like yoga for the fact it works and stretches muscles, develops breath control and keeps me flexible, which aside from swimming I find few other forms of exercise do.
I run a small club in Bristol and we always do some yoga as a warm-up before we get in the pool as most of us turn up stiff, tense and rushed after a week at work. Also use as a useful empty-lung exercise distraction...see pic
www.omdiver.co.uk
The suggested training is all quite high intensity-body focussed work, but for me I have more trouble training my mind for freediving than my body! I like yoga for the fact it works and stretches muscles, develops breath control and keeps me flexible, which aside from swimming I find few other forms of exercise do.
I run a small club in Bristol and we always do some yoga as a warm-up before we get in the pool as most of us turn up stiff, tense and rushed after a week at work. Also use as a useful empty-lung exercise distraction...see pic
www.omdiver.co.uk
Attachments
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Love the pic - will try it next time I get a chance. Have tried a couple for fun after training to do yoga poses underwater but most were disastrous! (same as my yoga poses out of the water really! lol)
I have tried many times in the past to freedive right after a full yoga session (1.5 hours) - apart from the obvious help on the physical side, the main difference I have found is that I can get 'in the zone' very soon after starting the freediving session (~15-20 mins) if I had done a yoga session before, whereas it takes me a good 45-50 mins of freediving to achieve a similar effect if I don't do yoga before.
I admittedly cheat a bit during the yoga session and use the final relaxation in savasana and a couple of other poses to do retentions. It's good preparation if you are intending on freediving right after.
I have tried many times in the past to freedive right after a full yoga session (1.5 hours) - apart from the obvious help on the physical side, the main difference I have found is that I can get 'in the zone' very soon after starting the freediving session (~15-20 mins) if I had done a yoga session before, whereas it takes me a good 45-50 mins of freediving to achieve a similar effect if I don't do yoga before.
I admittedly cheat a bit during the yoga session and use the final relaxation in savasana and a couple of other poses to do retentions. It's good preparation if you are intending on freediving right after.
Thanx for sharing ur training This training i have started 1 month ago and i wanted to share with u:
Sunday Swimming Front & back board kicking 10 each in 25 m pool + O2 Table Monday Gym Mix moves upper & lower body (Concentrate on legs training) + CO2 table Tuesday Resting Wednesday Dynamic with Fins/* Without Fins 10 times 25 meters pool + swimming 10 laps front/back kicking 25 meter pool Thursday Misc training gym, spearfishing, pool, maximum attempts
Friday Sea Dive Freediving/Spearfishing Saturday Resting
All Best
Sunday Swimming Front & back board kicking 10 each in 25 m pool + O2 Table Monday Gym Mix moves upper & lower body (Concentrate on legs training) + CO2 table Tuesday Resting Wednesday Dynamic with Fins/* Without Fins 10 times 25 meters pool + swimming 10 laps front/back kicking 25 meter pool Thursday Misc training gym, spearfishing, pool, maximum attempts
Friday Sea Dive Freediving/Spearfishing Saturday Resting
All Best
Interesting stuff in here... As a training junkie I will post..
My limiting factor on DYN is lactic acid. Doesn't help that I don't have a mono and am using my spearing bi-fins which are the stiffest I could find (C4 Scorpio 40), but I will get a mono soon and training in bi-fins is certainly a great way to build lactic tolerance. I have never done a max in a mono but having tried one I felt a big difference in lactic level on 50M.
My current training schedule has been roughly for the last month or so:
- local lobster diving/spearing 1-2 times a week. These are long sessions, 1.5 - 4 hours in the water. Typically this is very low lactic acid, high to very high CO2 since I usually keep a short SI, and high O2. Shallow dives, 20' to 60'. Deeper dives are very slow dives.
- Weights/cardio/stretching/running. 2 times a week. Cardio intervals (Muay Thai on a punching bag), kettlebells, some body weight exercises like pull-ups and dips, abs/core, stretch afterwards. If I just don't have time to make it to the gym I go run for 2 or 3 miles.
- Pool training. Try for at least 1 time a week. 200M crawl warm-up, breathing every 7 to 11 strokes. 100M kickboard on surface, arms out, face in the water to stretch shoulders and upper back, put on fins and do 10+ times 50's or 75's. Mix of sprint and technique work. Warm down with some easy crawl, light DNF. 50M pool only.
I am changing it up to increase my pool training and going to try and make 3 or 4 times a week, and up the gym to 2-3 times a week. Also going to get my pool training workouts more structured. Typical structured pool workout for me is sets with ladders either built around number of resting breaths, or time interval. I might do some dry tables but at my current conditioning don't usually see huge benefit from those. Here are some of the pool sets I was doing this summer when I was doing more regular pool training (2-3 times a week).
For CO2:
- 100's crawl, 75% intensity, breathing every 11 strokes, 30 secs rest in between. Or sometimes I will do them on a straight interval, like on the 2 min (2 mins between the start of each 100). This sort of thing is mostly generating a lot of CO2 but I find I get a lactic build-up after 3 or 4 of them.
- Stairway to heaven/hell. I do these in a short course pool (25 M/yards). 25 kicking on the surface, face in the water, arms in streamline, hands on kickboard, no fins, no breath. 6 breaths after the first one. Repeat, but after the next one take 5 breaths. Repeat, etc, all the way down to one breath. Then back up to 6, and back down again. Repeat ad naseum. Sometimes I will do one set of the stairway, then just repeat my 25's with 2 breaths between each for a while. Some lactic build-up as well as high CO2. The first iteration of this set is always the hardest; my body gets used to the high CO2.
- Lobster diving. 20' drop, fin around on the bottom and look in holes, cover ground quickly, surface before major blood shift/vasoconstriction, 3-5 breaths between each dive. Rest longer when I catch a bug since I am at the surface stuffing it into the bag, etc. Gets progressively harder as the bag fills up = more drag, and more weight.
Lactic/CO2:
- Time ladder. This is closer to a traditional freediving table. With fins. 8x50 on the 1:30 (meaning start each fifty after a minute thirty seconds--not one minute thirty seconds between each fifty), immediately followed by 6x50 on the 1:20, immediately followed by 4x50 on the 1:10, then 2x50 on the 1:00. This is my most grueling set and I frequently alternate dolphin/stereo kick on the 50's to move the lactic acid around. *Great set to do before spearing trips where I know I will be doing deep drops all day.*
Lactic:
- Sprints, either 50M or 75M. 100% but with a long rest interval. If doing a 50, at least do the turn so my brain doesn't get lazy and think the wall means the end of the swim. Repeat pretty much till muscle failure.
Technique:
- turn drills. With fins, underwater swimming in 25 yd pool, either 50 - 100 yards, but starting from the middle of the pool to force more turns.
- 50's with fins. Slow/easy/max DR pace, 5 slow, controlled, tidal breaths between each 50.
My limiting factor on DYN is lactic acid. Doesn't help that I don't have a mono and am using my spearing bi-fins which are the stiffest I could find (C4 Scorpio 40), but I will get a mono soon and training in bi-fins is certainly a great way to build lactic tolerance. I have never done a max in a mono but having tried one I felt a big difference in lactic level on 50M.
My current training schedule has been roughly for the last month or so:
- local lobster diving/spearing 1-2 times a week. These are long sessions, 1.5 - 4 hours in the water. Typically this is very low lactic acid, high to very high CO2 since I usually keep a short SI, and high O2. Shallow dives, 20' to 60'. Deeper dives are very slow dives.
- Weights/cardio/stretching/running. 2 times a week. Cardio intervals (Muay Thai on a punching bag), kettlebells, some body weight exercises like pull-ups and dips, abs/core, stretch afterwards. If I just don't have time to make it to the gym I go run for 2 or 3 miles.
- Pool training. Try for at least 1 time a week. 200M crawl warm-up, breathing every 7 to 11 strokes. 100M kickboard on surface, arms out, face in the water to stretch shoulders and upper back, put on fins and do 10+ times 50's or 75's. Mix of sprint and technique work. Warm down with some easy crawl, light DNF. 50M pool only.
I am changing it up to increase my pool training and going to try and make 3 or 4 times a week, and up the gym to 2-3 times a week. Also going to get my pool training workouts more structured. Typical structured pool workout for me is sets with ladders either built around number of resting breaths, or time interval. I might do some dry tables but at my current conditioning don't usually see huge benefit from those. Here are some of the pool sets I was doing this summer when I was doing more regular pool training (2-3 times a week).
For CO2:
- 100's crawl, 75% intensity, breathing every 11 strokes, 30 secs rest in between. Or sometimes I will do them on a straight interval, like on the 2 min (2 mins between the start of each 100). This sort of thing is mostly generating a lot of CO2 but I find I get a lactic build-up after 3 or 4 of them.
- Stairway to heaven/hell. I do these in a short course pool (25 M/yards). 25 kicking on the surface, face in the water, arms in streamline, hands on kickboard, no fins, no breath. 6 breaths after the first one. Repeat, but after the next one take 5 breaths. Repeat, etc, all the way down to one breath. Then back up to 6, and back down again. Repeat ad naseum. Sometimes I will do one set of the stairway, then just repeat my 25's with 2 breaths between each for a while. Some lactic build-up as well as high CO2. The first iteration of this set is always the hardest; my body gets used to the high CO2.
- Lobster diving. 20' drop, fin around on the bottom and look in holes, cover ground quickly, surface before major blood shift/vasoconstriction, 3-5 breaths between each dive. Rest longer when I catch a bug since I am at the surface stuffing it into the bag, etc. Gets progressively harder as the bag fills up = more drag, and more weight.
Lactic/CO2:
- Time ladder. This is closer to a traditional freediving table. With fins. 8x50 on the 1:30 (meaning start each fifty after a minute thirty seconds--not one minute thirty seconds between each fifty), immediately followed by 6x50 on the 1:20, immediately followed by 4x50 on the 1:10, then 2x50 on the 1:00. This is my most grueling set and I frequently alternate dolphin/stereo kick on the 50's to move the lactic acid around. *Great set to do before spearing trips where I know I will be doing deep drops all day.*
Lactic:
- Sprints, either 50M or 75M. 100% but with a long rest interval. If doing a 50, at least do the turn so my brain doesn't get lazy and think the wall means the end of the swim. Repeat pretty much till muscle failure.
Technique:
- turn drills. With fins, underwater swimming in 25 yd pool, either 50 - 100 yards, but starting from the middle of the pool to force more turns.
- 50's with fins. Slow/easy/max DR pace, 5 slow, controlled, tidal breaths between each 50.
Great thrread. I am a 5 day per week pool guy with 1 day hard cardio and 1 day full and partial lung and yoga stretching (rest day). I really enjoy reading others routines. Lance, I really like your approach. Here is what I am doing. The benefits to my overall diving have been great (to me). I am an avid summer/fall spearfisherman, so winter is all training for me. I have only been very serious about apnea for the last year, it used to be all about shooting fish for me (the last 9 years). I have fallen in love with apnea all over again and will never look back. These are just my humble findings:
Pool work is all done in a 25m pool.
Sun:
- 25 x 50m delay with stiff (40 hardness bi fins). My technique is a slow 25m to the other end of the pool, hold the breathold at the far side, then make the turn and come back as slow as possible. I find the diving reflex to kick in after the first 2-3 50m delays. This has built up my tolerance to lactic acid tremendously over the last 9 months. Also greatly improved my diving technique and dive time. I am doing a strick 1:45-2:15 breathup between 50m sets. Average 50m dely time is 2:15 -3:00 pending on rest from the night before.
Mon:
- 45 x 25m underwater no fins, with only 4 breaths between sets. This builds CO2 quick and high levels of lactic acid. Keeps heart rate high.
Tues:
- Same as Sun, but add a set of 20 25m sprints at the end with only 2-3 breaths between sets. Finish off with 4 of the 50m delays (these KILL after the CO2 build up)
Wed:
- Same as Sun
Thurs:
- Same as Sun
Friday:
- 40 sets of max breathold squat thrusts or 3.2 mile apnea run. Either is high intesnity, I feel the burn from the week of pool training.
Saturday:
- Off day. Focus on visualization, muscle stretching, and full and partial lung stretches. Been doing some yoga positions (that I am comfortable in) over last month. Find my heart rate steady at ~ 45-50 bpm. Very relaxed.
Zach
Pool work is all done in a 25m pool.
Sun:
- 25 x 50m delay with stiff (40 hardness bi fins). My technique is a slow 25m to the other end of the pool, hold the breathold at the far side, then make the turn and come back as slow as possible. I find the diving reflex to kick in after the first 2-3 50m delays. This has built up my tolerance to lactic acid tremendously over the last 9 months. Also greatly improved my diving technique and dive time. I am doing a strick 1:45-2:15 breathup between 50m sets. Average 50m dely time is 2:15 -3:00 pending on rest from the night before.
Mon:
- 45 x 25m underwater no fins, with only 4 breaths between sets. This builds CO2 quick and high levels of lactic acid. Keeps heart rate high.
Tues:
- Same as Sun, but add a set of 20 25m sprints at the end with only 2-3 breaths between sets. Finish off with 4 of the 50m delays (these KILL after the CO2 build up)
Wed:
- Same as Sun
Thurs:
- Same as Sun
Friday:
- 40 sets of max breathold squat thrusts or 3.2 mile apnea run. Either is high intesnity, I feel the burn from the week of pool training.
Saturday:
- Off day. Focus on visualization, muscle stretching, and full and partial lung stretches. Been doing some yoga positions (that I am comfortable in) over last month. Find my heart rate steady at ~ 45-50 bpm. Very relaxed.
Zach
@zach - that is very dedicated. I can't spend that much time a pool, makes me crazy, but I am also spearing year round so pool training is usually a shorter duration, higher intensity supplement to my spearing, mainly to keep me in shape for depth, where lactic acid becomes a limiting factor over the course of the day. Typically in a pool I am also doing much shorter breathing intervals between 50's (rarely more than 45 secs), but I typically not going ultra slow on the 50, so my total sustainable underwater time is ranging from between 3:1 to 2:1 throughout a set. For longer distances the curve shifts to be closer to 1:1. You might throw in some ladders/stairway type intervals for variety on your lactic days (Mon or Tue)... Depends on the diver, but you might get some training benefit from doing kick sprints without fins--long fins are very forgiving if your technique is less than 100%, so if you force yourself to train finless a little bit you may discover some places where you can improve body position, feel for the water, etc. What depth are you spearing at?
Thanks for the feebdack Lance and Mullins. The science of apnea is ever evolving for me. Lance, without my Swimp3 player, I would never be as cool as I am going to the pool so much, but when it's 30* out and the season is 5 months out, it gives me something to do late at night after work to keep in shape and maintain progression in the sport and pursue actively the goals I am trying to obtain. I like the suggestion of stairways/ladders. I read the description of your stairway to hell (def hell, not heaven) and I will be using it without a doubt on the heavy lactic days. No fins is new to me (over last three weeks) and is helping to point out the week points in my body position as well as working some muscles not always trained in the standard bi fin dynamics I have been doing. It is a free feeling not having fin socks and fins on. I do believe I need an ~1.5lb neck weight though to fine tune my technique. To answer your question, my average spearing depth from May-Novemeber is 40-60'. Our fish here on Long Island are on boulder/reef structure and it is very rare I find the fish I am looking for in much more water than that. With my dive times at 60', I have no doubt that passing that with comfort and safety is well within my skill set, but is just not needed for where I live and hunt reguraly. Again, great thread. Look forward to seeing other's regiments.
Zach
Zach
Could you please explain this a bit Dave? I was always convinced I was getting a much better DR after the first 30-45 mins of training/diving but I know in theory it's supposed to be the opposite.
Of course I wasn't measuring anything but was just basing it on the fact that holds and swims felt a lot easier as sessions progressed - but as you said maybe they just 'felt' easier..