Different training programs

[growingupninja]

After 30-40 minutes, Simos, you could be feeling the benefits of spleenic contraction (a little more available red blood cells), so that could be truly beneficial but yes, like mullins said initial DR is much stronger and it falls off with serial diving--vasoconstriction decreases and the dives feel easier since they are less lactic. Playing with my O2 sat meter it was one of the first things I learned. Hence the 'no warm up' camp of freedivers. Does depend on the diver though and what they are trying to do. For DYN, if lactic acid is a limiting factor, then a warm-up is probably helpful.

 

[Simos]

After 30-40 minutes, Simos, you could be feeling the benefits of spleenic contraction (a little more available red blood cells), so that could be truly beneficial but yes, like mullins said initial DR is much stronger and it falls off with serial diving--vasoconstriction decreases and the dives feel easier since they are less lactic. Playing with my O2 sat meter it was one of the first things I learned. Hence the 'no warm up' camp of freedivers. Does depend on the diver though and what they are trying to do. For DYN, if lactic acid is a limiting factor, then a warm-up is probably helpful.

Thanks, understand that but don't think in my case it relates to less lactic. The same thing happens even for static holds for me at least ie the 7th/8th hold feels a lot easier than the first.

What I was thinking was that perhaps if there is less vasoconstriction, CO2 concentration takes longer to build up in the area where the receptors are? The other explanation could be just more relaxation or that the brain gets used to increased CO2 levels?

 

[growingupninja]

I think the body gets used to higher CO2 and lower O2; all inter-related to DR. I know my baseline O2 level will drop over the course of a day of spearing. Not sure about vasoconstriction's effect on CO2 perception, although muscles working anaerobically produce less CO2.

 

[Simos]

I think the body gets used to higher CO2 and lower O2; all inter-related to DR. I know my baseline O2 level will drop over the course of a day of spearing. Not sure about vasoconstriction's effect on CO2 perception, although muscles working anaerobically produce less CO2.

I am a little surprised your baseline O2 level drops like that but maybe it's because you build up an O2 debt (eg lactic) and then your baseline O2 is lower while you are paying off the debt? (ie recovering) I would have thought though that it might be a bit dangerous if this is the case and you should take longer recoveries?

 

[growingupninja]

I am a little surprised your baseline O2 level drops like that but maybe it's because you build up an O2 debt (eg lactic) and then your baseline O2 is lower while you are paying off the debt? (ie recovering) I would have thought though that it might be a bit dangerous if this is the case and you should take longer recoveries?

Yes, I watch the recoveries and do a few extra deep breaths before a dive. When on a boat I bring my pulse O2 meter with me and check in with it a few times. I don't know if it is lactic acid related; it can be an hour or two since the last dive. I think it is just that my baseline is falling towards the lower end of 'normal'. That and the growing CO2 tolerance throughout the day means that dives can become very comfortable at the expense of safety margin.

 

[picasoflake]

One of the best training is yoga as it burns a lot of calories to make you healthy.

 

[anthropisces]

All of my pool or other training which involves breath-hold is done with a buddy.

A year ago I was comfortably hunting in 65-70 feet with occasional forays down to hunt at 80 feet.


From February 2012 to July 2012 my pool training consisted of 8-sets of 75 meter swims (I have yet to bring any of these to the 100m mark). This routine fit my abilities and the amount of time I have to devote.

In July 2012 I started doing some routines that kept us in the high CO2 zone. These include 6 sets of 50meters with 30second to 1 minute rests between swims; sets in which we surface swim and take breaths every 3-9 strokes, sets with 75 meters of freestyle with 25meter underwater, etc. The rapidity that the sets are clicked off and the intensity of each set dictates how deep into CO2 we go. These sessions last about an hour to an hour and a half. We mix it up from time to time with the 8-sets of 75 meters (people hate it when I suggest we do them because they can be tough).

The pool training is done once or twice a week depending on whether a day of spearing in the ocean occurs on the weekend. I am now more comfortable in 80 feet with occasional forays into 90 feet.

I plan to try to take my 8 sets up from 75 meters up to 100 meters each. I squeeze in an 85 meter now and then. Going for the full 100 meters is a daunting mental and physical challenge. I am not writing here to ask you to help me reach that goal (although I do welcome such advice).

I'm trying to identify a new aspect that I can add to my training so that I may advance in terms of breath-hold. I am separately working to enhance my equalizing capabilities by trying to master Frenzel-Fattah.

Perhaps someone can help develop some frc training for me.

 

[growingupninja]

Perhaps someone can help develop some frc training for me.

I remember reading your post on SB. If there is not much difference between how your body behaves full lung, and how it behaves on FRC, then FRC training/diving may be a needless risk.

In my opinion, to test this, you could do some short, submax, wet tables while measuring pulse. You need to do these tables before you have done any other apnea training for the day. On one day start with an FRC table followed by a full lung and the next day switch the order. DO THESE WITH A BUDDY, and have him/her videotape the device you are using to measure pulse (even a $30 fingertip O2 meter) so you can review it yourself. Vasoconstriction can make a manual pulse (like fingers on wrist) measurement highly inaccurate. Train safe.

 

[anthropisces]

I don't know if it is worth trying to train FRV or not. I need to reread your post to understand it better.

From what I'm reading about other people's programs it seems like I should just try harder at what I am already doing.

 

[growingupninja]

If your body doesn't respond to FRC/exhale in way that is different than full lung then there may not be much point to it. For some people the difference in onset of dive response and strength of response is staggering, and it also appears to change work response for many divers. Not an expert but I remember your post about samba on 50m empty lung swim, but you are able to do sets of consecutive 75's. So it would seem to indicate that your ability may be based on lung capacity and fitness as opposed to dive response. There is nothing wrong with that. But you would want to proceed carefully with FRC training, and test regularly to see if it is helping you.

 

[anthropisces]

Wow you do have a good memory. I did indeed samba at 50 meters on empty lungs and talked about it in one of my posts

 

[uberman]

I live in the Pacific NW and to freedive down 70ft means swimming in the dark with very limited viz, hence I hunt mostly in the 20-30 ft range where the sun still penetrates and there are more game fish. Only once was I in 30+ viz and that was breathtaking. Everyone found they could dive deeper IF they had better viz. Its a mental phenomina. There are areas here that are utterly primordial with deep narrow chasms and caves, tunnels, etc. carved into the rock. I have read Umbertos book on freediving and Maas spearo book. Both are great but nowhere are the instructions on how to train clearly laid out, hence the best you can do is to increase your cardio to obtain a slower resting heart rate and train doing breath holds to tolerate higher levels of lactic acid build up. I found my bottom time increase since I started doing Cross Fit classes, as it is always different and forces your body to respond instead of repeating the same old routine. As far as pool training, I read one freediver say that it was almost useless when compared to the open water training. But I could be mistaken. I was doing uderwater laps for a time, but I have to wear a few lbs on a belt to stay submerged on a 3/4 lungful. I am starting Prayanama excersises now with the hope of strengthening my diaphram.