-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Discussion on hypothesized ancestral human cyclical ARC dive-foraging
- Thread starterwet
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Thanks, for enlightening us, David
Frankly told, and almost without joking, I indeed suspect something like that, because I do not consider the human muscles and bones to be very well adapted to underwater swimming. On my mind, even the frog kick does not really use muscle groups and tendons that are well developed. If our ancestors swam underwater for hundreds of thousands years, I'd expect much better adaptation. That's why I asked, but it was actually a question for the other David - David "wet" Deden. And I am sure he has a set of excellent arguments to explain how our ancestors swam. Finally he was able to figure out that they used clicking and humming for the communication to the backfloating buddies, and also for the sonar-like detection in murky waters; he was able to deduce that the infants did not sink thanks to hydrogen in their stomachs, and many other interesting facts, so I guess he will be able to tell us what swimming style they used very precisely too.
Oh yeah, I knew it was that David you meant - I just remembered that post he'd made (see the link, those really were the hypotheses!). It kind of stuck with me. I mean, I'm always looking for a competitive advantage... but to be honest, the experimentation hasn't gone very well. I get very disorientated when using my head as a fin like that; and people always think I'm in distress because of the way I flap my arms around. Little do they realise, I'm just rediscovering my ancestral roots.
Last edited:
Ah, sorry, Dvid, I think I missed that one! Can you post a link to the specific post (there is a post number on the right of each post)? The link you gave just sends me to the last page of this dicussion (I probably use a different pagination than you).
Wasn't it the style of Wes Lapp with the huge rubber sleeve? Did our ancestors use it too?
Wasn't it the style of Wes Lapp with the huge rubber sleeve? Did our ancestors use it too?
I just wonder, how they used the clicking sonar for detecting their prey when they swam backwards. It must have been reducing the efficiency.
And another question is about surfacing - must be little bit unconfortable to have to surface ass first - I guess that inhaling with the ass does not work very well for post-dive recovery.
And another question is about surfacing - must be little bit unconfortable to have to surface ass first - I guess that inhaling with the ass does not work very well for post-dive recovery.
And so it all begins to fall into place. The reverse swimming style allows for immediate replenishment of gastric gases upon surfacing. Of course, underwater communication is essential to ensure that no other divers are in the vicinity at the time of surfacing. A photic sneeze in the last phase of the ascent completes the reverse breach by ejecting the diver from the water completely, allowing the less important thoracic inhalation to take place. A deft mid-air twist sees them landing in a perfect backfloating position. I'm still not quite sure how the beaver-style semi-submerged lodges fit in, but I'm working on it. Possibly they capture Nitric Oxide - or were temples to the FSM.
I think you guys are close - and maybe even right about something - but you are overlooking the possibility of squid like - reverse hydro-jet propulsion. Since the feet first swimming position allows for the possibility of packing water via the anus we have the almost certainty that our ancestors were capable of tremendous emergency bursts of speed via sudden expulsion of anally retained water stored in the colon - the power of which would doubtless be amplified by the compressible gases in the abdomen. The sudden changes in direction and explosive speed thus enabled would have obvious utility for hunting and evading predators but moreover, when combined with the spontaneous bodily muscle contraction of the photic sneeze (which, being photic, must occur near the surface) it follows logically that our ancestors could not only breach - but probably capture low flying birds via instantaneous photic-sneeze-enhanced-anal/colonic-hydro-propulsion.
Last edited:
Yes, the team brainstroming starts bringing real progress. Fondueset really brought it close to perfection, but still omitted the importance of the hydrogen. It was not only used to control the buoyancy, but it in case of necessity it was ignited by the photic sneeze, and used for yet another propulsion boost.
The best on it was that it could have been used to enhance the speed bi-directionally - either forwards (ignition after farting), or backwards (ignition after burping). So in fact it served not only to a sudden acceleration, but also to a quick reversion of direction.
The best on it was that it could have been used to enhance the speed bi-directionally - either forwards (ignition after farting), or backwards (ignition after burping). So in fact it served not only to a sudden acceleration, but also to a quick reversion of direction.
Last edited:
The connections are limitless. Those inflatable figures you see at car yard sales and such - the ones that wave their arms and upper torsos all the time as air moves up the arms - are not just tacky 'look at me' advertisements. They're actually long-lost archetypal resonances finding new form through the superstructural milieu of commercialism. Undulates arms/head/upper torso, full of gas - it's all there.
http://www.partyplusmaine.com/Images/Games/inflatable man.jpg
http://www.partyplusmaine.com/Images/Games/inflatable man.jpg
i knew it, i knew it. I knew there was a good reason to go through this mess for almost 20 pages.
Thanks for the laugh.
Maybe we should tell him (a guy called Michael Phelps or something) that he is doing it quite wrong :rcard:
To be as good swimmer as his ancestors, he shoud do it backwards.
So he could go through water in the shape of a rocket:
Using his hands like a frog uses it's legs:
Not forgetting to blow air or burp gases in high speed from his mouth into the water to get some more acceleration:
Oops, I got a wrong picture :head, but maybe you understand the idea!
But I leave the pic here, because of it's pure beauty of symbolising our so close relationship to other aquatic mammals, like just to whales
And because it so naturally demonstrates AA enjoying of it's aquatic life in a tropical lagoon.
Don't forget Fondueset's facts, just one precise citation of that source:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/freedi...cyclical-arc-dive-foraging-20.html#post785307
-----
And about that speed, this pic always reminds me so strongly about an AA-mom (or dad) having an AA-baby or kid on her/his back and teaching the offspring to swim (backwards!) in a HIGH speed:
As you see, it's SO obvious that the space shuttle designers (they are humans aren't they?) have Aquatic Ape roots, although maybe they don't recognise those!
.
To be as good swimmer as his ancestors, he shoud do it backwards.
So he could go through water in the shape of a rocket:
Using his hands like a frog uses it's legs:
Not forgetting to blow air or burp gases in high speed from his mouth into the water to get some more acceleration:
Oops, I got a wrong picture :head, but maybe you understand the idea!
But I leave the pic here, because of it's pure beauty of symbolising our so close relationship to other aquatic mammals, like just to whales
And because it so naturally demonstrates AA enjoying of it's aquatic life in a tropical lagoon.
Don't forget Fondueset's facts, just one precise citation of that source:
For further information, check:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/freedi...cyclical-arc-dive-foraging-20.html#post785307
-----
And about that speed, this pic always reminds me so strongly about an AA-mom (or dad) having an AA-baby or kid on her/his back and teaching the offspring to swim (backwards!) in a HIGH speed:
As you see, it's SO obvious that the space shuttle designers (they are humans aren't they?) have Aquatic Ape roots, although maybe they don't recognise those!
.
Last edited:
From the book Seals and Sea Lions by Phyllis Evans
"While the bulls are on vacation, the sea lion cows are busy coaxing their pups in the water. The young animals are so afraid of deep water that they can be seen climbing on the backs of their mothers to get out of the ocean."
"Like the South American sea lion, the pup of the Hooker's sea lion would rather play in mud puddles than go to sea in deep water. There are many instances however, of the puddles becoming death traps. When it rains, rabbit burrows in the peat break down and become deep bogs that fill with water. The sea lion pups go swimming in these puddles and churn the water and peat together, creating mud that sticks to their coats. Some pups heavy with mud cannot climb up the slippery sides of the bog and get out to feed, while others get their heads stuck in the mire and drown."
The Sea World book of seals and sea lions (Open Library)
Sounds similar to what happens to some small children drowning in buckets and pools where they can't get out due to steep slippery sides, quite unlike a gentle inclined non-sticky non-slippery sandy beach at a calm lagoon.
Earless seals (phocids) usually haul out on ice floes, eared seals (otariids) on coasts and islands. That pattern fits with coastal/island sub/tropical diving/backfloating human ancestors retaining external ears one million years ago, they were far from any arctic ice floes. Sea otters and marine otters (backfloating & dive foraging) too retain external ears (pinnae). Permanent external ear loss is found in permanent aquatics and ice-bound semi-aquatics, not tropical semi-aquatics, and would not be expected for a backfloating/diving forager.
Guadelupe seals rest in seashore caves during the hottest part of the day, while Galapagos seals rest on surf-splashed rocks. Human ancestors 1ma probably rested under woven palm fronds, in shore caves on reed mats & furs and in mud-root mortared reed-sedge-willow dome lodges, not dissimilar to giant beaver lodges.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trogontherium[/ame]
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castoroides[/ame]
http://www.bear-tracker.com/beaver.html
Later human construction & foraging techniques:
http://donsmaps.com/mammothcamp.html
Whalebone hut: http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/uofcpublications/umagazine/spring2008/researcher
http://www.samuseum.sa.gov.au/ngurunderi/ng3htm.htm
http://www.uq.edu.au/aerc/index.html?page=39081&pid=39072
http://www.uq.edu.au/aerc/index.html?page=39074
Click: (* THE-ARC *): Marine-Rift Conduit
"While the bulls are on vacation, the sea lion cows are busy coaxing their pups in the water. The young animals are so afraid of deep water that they can be seen climbing on the backs of their mothers to get out of the ocean."
"Like the South American sea lion, the pup of the Hooker's sea lion would rather play in mud puddles than go to sea in deep water. There are many instances however, of the puddles becoming death traps. When it rains, rabbit burrows in the peat break down and become deep bogs that fill with water. The sea lion pups go swimming in these puddles and churn the water and peat together, creating mud that sticks to their coats. Some pups heavy with mud cannot climb up the slippery sides of the bog and get out to feed, while others get their heads stuck in the mire and drown."
The Sea World book of seals and sea lions (Open Library)
Sounds similar to what happens to some small children drowning in buckets and pools where they can't get out due to steep slippery sides, quite unlike a gentle inclined non-sticky non-slippery sandy beach at a calm lagoon.
Earless seals (phocids) usually haul out on ice floes, eared seals (otariids) on coasts and islands. That pattern fits with coastal/island sub/tropical diving/backfloating human ancestors retaining external ears one million years ago, they were far from any arctic ice floes. Sea otters and marine otters (backfloating & dive foraging) too retain external ears (pinnae). Permanent external ear loss is found in permanent aquatics and ice-bound semi-aquatics, not tropical semi-aquatics, and would not be expected for a backfloating/diving forager.
Guadelupe seals rest in seashore caves during the hottest part of the day, while Galapagos seals rest on surf-splashed rocks. Human ancestors 1ma probably rested under woven palm fronds, in shore caves on reed mats & furs and in mud-root mortared reed-sedge-willow dome lodges, not dissimilar to giant beaver lodges.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trogontherium[/ame]
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castoroides[/ame]
http://www.bear-tracker.com/beaver.html
Later human construction & foraging techniques:
http://donsmaps.com/mammothcamp.html
Whalebone hut: http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/uofcpublications/umagazine/spring2008/researcher
http://www.samuseum.sa.gov.au/ngurunderi/ng3htm.htm
http://www.uq.edu.au/aerc/index.html?page=39081&pid=39072
http://www.uq.edu.au/aerc/index.html?page=39074
Click: (* THE-ARC *): Marine-Rift Conduit
Last edited:
Most of the small children drownings happens just because they they can't swim by nature. Some of small chidren are taught to back float, but still the slippery side may not the main problem. Just some about that (check the videos):
http://forums.deeperblue.com/general-freediving/84502-aquatic-ape-when-proven-2.html#post787197
Today the environment is quite different, babies ride in cars within hours after birth and may not see a tropical lagoon except on television. Most seafood consumed today is gotten without entering the water, via the market or using boats and nets aka technology. So there hasn't been much natural selection for swimming and diving for a while. Newborns can locomote through water and backfloat long before they can crawl, walk or run, providing the mother is there, but in today's society few people have that situation, due to living in concentrated settlements in non-tropical areas. Artificial swimming pools differ from the ancestral condition of tropical lagoons.