DNF technique / rules

[EddieP]

Hi,

I've been playing around at DNF in my local pool. I can do 50m. BUT I use a combination of breast stroke and front crawl with my head/face under water. Would this be allowed in the AIDA 2* course or do I have to be completely submerged all the time?

 

[Giobbi]

You gotta film this and share it with us please! : )

 

[trux]

No problem with the rules. Yes, please post a video !!!

But perhaps if you stop moving your head, you'll get even further than those 50m

 

[EddieP]

No video allowed at the pool as its public and paranoid about child protection. My main question is... does every part of the body have to be underwater to count? Or if an arm breaks the surface is the distance stopped?

Or is the vid request for verification of claim?

 

[trux]

ah, you mean you are crawling on the surface? No, that's not allowed. You have to be fully immersed all the time. No surface breaking allowed. I understood you were somehow crawling with the head rofl

 

[EddieP]

ok, its just the last few meters (maybe 10) as "panic" sets in (not a proper panic though). I'll revisit my technique then. I'm not allowed weights etc, so not too sure how easy it will be to remain submerged. Many Thanks.

 

[trux]

Try diving on exhale - it helps staying submerged. At the beginning it is hard, but with some training you'll find you can do the same distance, and perhpas more than on inhale. Just make sure you have an experienced buddy watching and following you. Never train alone! Many experienced freedivers died in this way, because you simply never know when you black out, and usually you don't see it coming, and believe you are well within your limits.

 

[Simos]

A big perplexed about the 2* question - it's not a competition so you can do whatever you want in the course lol if you are asking whether it would count as your qualification dive: there is no DNF requirement, just use fins.

Anyway 2* aside - I am sure you come to the surface because of incorrect head position - the moment you lift your head you will come up. I am sure you must be lifting your head to look for the wall as you get the 'panic' as you call it. My advice would be to focus on good technique and do 10-15m less than what you do now - don't continue the dive if you are not relaxed and in panic, it will only make you pick up bad habits like bad head position etc.

Enjoy and be safe!

 

[EddieP]

The 2* thing was more that if I can do it without then with will be easier, but wanted to check what the technique requirements were.

I'm on the surface as I'm not allowed anything according to the pool rules and this includes a mask that covers the nose, so deff no weights etc.

 

[Giobbi]

You have to stay under water to avoid penalty alt DQ.

 

[Giobbi]

ah, you mean you are crawling on the surface? No, that's not allowed. You have to be fully immersed all the time. No surface breaking allowed. I understood you were somehow crawling with the head rofl

Lol! Now thats something new!

 

[wjohnson100]

Why no weights?

 

[Mullins]

Try diving on exhale - it helps staying submerged. At the beginning it is hard, but with some training you'll find you can do the same distance, and perhpas more than on inhale.

Trux, do you know of anybody who can perform equally well on exhale and inhale?

 

[trux]

Yes, for example Philip Clayton who did a 144 DNF dive (in a competition!) just a few days ago in your country. That's his competition PB: http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?pid:1503 (both inhale and exhale/FRC)

But there are couple of other freedivers here on DB who claim they can go further on FRC than with full inhale. And I'd tell Seb Murat was a similar case, though I do not remember his PB's.

 

[Mullins]

I doubt Phil can perform as well on FRC as he can on inhale. Using comp results in that way is a bit like saying I perform better in CNF than I do in FIM. I certainly don't think it's realistic for people to expect to perform as well on FRC as they can on inhale, especially in the pool disciplines. Also, didn't even Murat do his big DYN swims on inhale?

 

[trux]

Well, I have no idea what Phil can do on inhale, but if he chose FRC for competitions, probably he believed he can do solid performances with it (and he does). You better ask him - isn't he training sometimes with you?

I believe Seb Murat claimed he surpassed (or at least equaled) his big DYN on FRC. I would have to dig out the interviews with him, or search the DB archive. Perhaps Eric peaks in and tells us better - he should remember. However, there are several other DB members who claimed they can dive better or equal on FRC than on full inhale. And even if Phil can do better DNF with full inhale than on FRC, I bet the two performances will be pretty well comparable.

 

[Mullins]

You see my point though, right? Even if a couple of people are doing comparable distance on exhale that's hardly an indication somebody starting out can expect it yield the same results as inhale. The main interest in FRC seems to be down to the fact that the performance loss when you switch from inhale is less than you'd expect; not that you can expect to gain anything on average. New divers using FRC also tend to be more prone to BO in my experience. It's much less forgiving of bad technique & preparation than inhale diving is.

 

[trux]

No, Dave, I do not see your point, and am sorry but I do not really agree with you. In contrary I believe that a beginner can achieve better perfromances with FRC much easier than an athete of your level. I agree that at the top level the air you have in lungs may give you the edge (at least untill now all WR's were done on full inhale, if I am not mistaken). But at an beginner it is an entirely another matter - most of them will profit from the advantages of FRC (stronger diving response) much more, and will easily progress faster than on full inhale.

 

[trux]

FRC divers being more prone to BO sounds little bit surprising. Usually, on FRC, your dives finish with a rather clear head. Well, of course, it can be messed up too, but the philosophy of FRC diving is that it is actually less hypoxic.

But then again, this is not what this thread is about - the guy at the beginning asked what he can do without weights. One possiblity is diving fast and with big force to keep the level. The other possiblity is diving on partial exhale. And that's what I recommended, because it will allow him working better on the technique, while not really losing any significant performance (I believe that as a beginner, after a short period he will easily soon surpass all his PB's on FRC). The only concern is the safety, since on FRC you may easier inhale water. And that's why I mentioned the necessity of never training alone.

 

[Mullins]

Have to just disagree on it then. FRC is not something I'd suggest for a beginner - it might be the only option in this case because of the weights issue but I'd be very cautious about it and I wouldn't tell them to have high expectations vs inhale. I've seen several people BO trying full or partial exhale dives, at distances far shorter than they had reached on inhale. There can be a substantial performance loss when compared to inhale, especially when overbreathing and warmup dives are factored in (you can expect both of these from a beginner). As I said earlier, I reckon exhale diving is very sensitive to poor technique and the gap between it and inhale diving narrows when you get it right.

It's realistic to set PBs using FRC, sure. But only because somebody starting out is bound to set PBs regardless of the approach they take. If we're talking about real performance (i.e. max distance to BO), I'd expect most people to benefit from the extra lung volume regardless of their level.