DNF technique / rules

[azapa]

talking of DNF rules. What about this crazy "grab rule" that has busted quite a few at the recent worlds...

I have my first aida pool comp in a months time. The deal is: I have my SP down great, even, cough cough, when not in such great shape. But now I must remember to exit my airways before I touch anything? what if the pool is deeper than I am long (hardly a problem for Dave...). Any tips how to program this in the old depleted brain?

 

[Giobbi]

Idiot rule. How about simplify it; If you shake - your out? : )

 

[azapa]

nono, as far as I understand the rule: you must not touch anything before exiting airways. But I am confused too.

If it was "shake and out" I would not get far. Most of my pool efforts end with my trademark samba. Small, of course.

 

[Simos]

talking of DNF rules. What about this crazy "grab rule" that has busted quite a few at the recent worlds...

I have my first aida pool comp in a months time. The deal is: I have my SP down great, even, cough cough, when not in such great shape. But now I must remember to exit my airways before I touch anything? what if the pool is deeper than I am long (hardly a problem for Dave...). Any tips how to program this in the old depleted brain?

Agree it's a bit crazy Simon - I fell victim of that. Then I tried hard not to grab, came up away from the wall on the deep end and got DQ for airway dip (came up with a foggy mask not realising that I was further from the wall and didn't manage to grab!) - D'OH.

I am by no means an expert but sounds to me that if you want to program it you need to make sure you don't grab EVER, not even at pool training sessions until your exit becomes automatic.

Coming up with that trademark samba won't help for sure - do a few metres less and come up clean, I'm sure you'll have more chances for a white card ;-)

 

[azapa]

what happens if your swim is in a middle lane (no wall)? Or if the water is deeper than you can stand in?


Regarding bailing just at the right moment: I am not very good at pools and simply fight based on a certain distance (that I have done before) plus a little. Stupid. Samba city.

 

[Simos]

One of these days I'll try to get it sorted. Ahh, but what's the hurry...

Go on Dave, sort it out mate! LOL - I was laughing when I read that (although I know what Tom (siku) meant but it did come out funny).

@Tom - I estimate you and I combined have 2/3 of Dave's lung volume so it' not quite the same. Let me know if you want a neck weight by the way, a couple of guys are making some this weekend (or was it last weekend?) although if you won't know how much weight you'll need until you try some...

If you do get the neck weight made, you'll have to make some decisions about how to dive I guess (full lung, suit etc).

 

[Mullins]

But coming up with a manageable samba means you've judged your distance perfectly...

 

[azapa]

thanks Dave, ahem, I agree.

Can you now shed some light on how to manage the grab rule when coming up in a deep pool or in a middle lane? Any pointers.

 

[trux]

But now I must remember to exit my airways before I touch anything? what if the pool is deeper than I am long (hardly a problem for Dave...).

Well, that's no new rule, it is in this way since a long time. And don't count on the floor anyway too! Putting your feet on the floor before putting your airways above water is prohibited too. Well, the judges don't see it so well, so people get away with it often, but properly anyone who touches the floor with the feet before exiting (or pushes off the floor with hands) should be penalized too.

 

[trux]

Can you now shed some light on how to manage the grab rule when coming up in a deep pool or in a middle lane? Any pointers.

You grab, but after the mouth is above water. Have a look at couple of videos - there are plenty of examples online. And if you have some super heavy neckweight, you are allowed dropping it before/during surfacing.

 

[Simos]

thanks Dave, ahem, I agree.

Can you now shed some light on how to manage the grab rule when coming up in a deep pool or in a middle lane? Any pointers.

Last pool comp I did I came up at deep end with hands by my sides instead of extended up (i.e. I did a breast stroke with my arms before heading up). I think there are less chances of grabbing like that but I don't do 'serious' comps and come up super clean so not sure if this applies at all to 'real' competitive dives.

Of course I still got a yellow card because apparently I didn't dive within the right distance at the start (no idea how I managed that, I must be the first person getting a yellow card for that!).

Yellow is the new white.

 

[Simos]

Putting your feet on the floor before putting your airways above water is prohibited too.

Yes if anything the shallow end is probably equally challenging. Especially if you are really tall I guess.

It's not that hard, the problem is we're probably all conditioned to do exactly the opposite at normal pool sessions as the safest thing to do is grab the wall before surfacing..

Is this allowed? (touching feet on bottom of the pool but not pushing off, does actually look very iffy to me)

 

[Simos]

what happens if your swim is in a middle lane (no wall)? Or if the water is deeper than you can stand in?

You can grab the lane separator after the airways come out or I think you can hold on to the float (but safety needs to be close enough when you come up). I'm not 100% about the float... Or you can keep swimming with you legs lol

Regarding coming out at the right distance - might be worth considering dropping a marker (e.g. a weight) at the bottom of the pool a few metres before your target distance. Then you know when to exit or where you are... More experienced guys should be able to advice more on this...

 

[efattah]

Let the diver grab the wall before the airway comes up!! Why not? If you let everyone do it then no one has any advantage.

 

[Simos]

Let the diver grab the wall before the airway comes up!! Why not? If you let everyone do it then no one has any advantage.

Makes sense but I guess with these rules you have to think about odd scenarios like someone just using the wall to pull themselves along and gaining more distance than the other person etc.

But I'm sure the rule can be made such that only a single 'grab' is allowed and once you've 'grabbed' you HAVE to surface.

Hmm thinking about this more, you have to probably think about the cases too where the diver grabs a 'movable' support like the float (if I'm not mistaken, that's allowed).

 

[Simos]

@azapa - apologies if this is obvious, but there is a rule worth being aware of that has to do with coming up at the ends of the pool. Basically if you are going to come up at the end of the pool, you have to remember to touch the wall below the surface of the water before surfacing. (usual grab rule still applies though)

If you do that (ie. touch) you basically gain an extra 'free' metre (say you did 5 lengths, you'd have an RP of 125m if you touched and 124m if you forgot to touch).

Of course, to complicate things a lot more, this only applies to the end wall - if you even touch the side wall, you'll get a penalty if I'm not mistaken.

 

[chrismar]

Makes sense but I guess with these rules you have to think about odd scenarios like someone just using the wall to pull themselves along and gaining more distance than the other person etc.

But I'm sure the rule can be made such that only a single 'grab' is allowed and once you've 'grabbed' you HAVE to surface.

Hmm thinking about this more, you have to probably think about the cases too where the diver grabs a 'movable' support like the float (if I'm not mistaken, that's allowed).

I wrote a potential amendment to the rules around this a while back. I think it was based around your distance being the lesser of the point where the airways broke the surface or where you grabbed on surfacing. Prevents any chance of propulsion.

Until that happens though, I suggest my approach. Armstroke as you're coming up, then come up on your elbows. With your hands down you can't grab, the armstroke takes you to the surface, then you support yourself on your arms. Works on poolsides and laneropes.

 

[ReefTroll]

Ha ha don't worry about your technique on your 2* course mate!
I uhm, managed to "beach" myself, literally, doing the dynamic section on my course with BennyB! (And I passed)

 

[Phil C]

Chris is giving good advice here guys. When you come up on the side of the pool you want to be chest against the wall with your elbows/upper arms on top. You cannot grab with your elbows and It's a really stable position to get through that samba and allows you to keep three points of contact (chest and two elbows) while doing your SP.

Obviously none of this is necessary if you never push it.

Phil C

 

[ThomasB]

Or you can keep swimming with you legs lol

Which is Not so crazy as it looks. Doesn't that help keeping blood pressure high ?