i did 1:45 empty lung after reverse packing. but to be honest i did two minutes of hyperventilation before my try at empty lung dive. what i found very weird was if i could do 1;45 with empty lung how come i could only do 3;30 with full lungs and about four packs. thsi goes to shouw that when i am doing full lung statics i am now where near my limits. considering that with empty lungs i did 1;45. right or wrong.?
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Thread Status: Hello
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I don't think so Maltaspearo. I think it would be hard to find a defenite ratio between empty lungs and full lungs.
I also don't think that every person who has done over 7:30 static has passed 3:45 empty lungs.
I think that you'll know your limit when you hit it, and even then, limits are there to be pushed.
I also don't think that every person who has done over 7:30 static has passed 3:45 empty lungs.
I think that you'll know your limit when you hit it, and even then, limits are there to be pushed.
I think the methods suggested by Eric and Bill are good, and I am happy to do them, but when it comes to actually doing empty lung statics, I still find it impossible. The urge to breathe is far too much, and it definitely reduces my static times for at least the rest of the day. I sometimes lie on the bottom of the pool with empty lungs, but not for more than 10-15 seconds, as I don't want to go anywhere near the 'struggle phase' in this state. I use this as a way of getting used to the pressure, and it seems to make a big difference, so I will carry on doing it for this reason.
Lucia
Lucia
Sebastien Murat has noted that his ratio of FullStatic/EmptyStatic has always remained the same. Of course, the actual ratio depends upon your residual volume and your inhale volume, but the idea is that the ratio could stay the same for one person. However, I noticed that the hemoglobin O2 curve will affect the ratio, so if you train empty lungs a lot, the ratio will decrease (in favor of empty lungs), and if you train inhales a lot, the ratio should increase (in favor of full lungs). My ratio has been around 2.5 - 3.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
I have issues with the fallibility of any measure of empty lungs. After 10 reverse packs (50-100 ml each) the contractions (when they come) are almost enough to invert my epiglottis. In this state I struggle to get to 2 minutes, but on an easy exhale I can manage twice that. Then there are the various shades between the two.
For this reason I don't think there is any value in interpersonal comparison. Exhale apneas are like walking races (or cricket bowling actions) - difficult to judge.
Having said this I still train almost entirely exhale statics as the 'training stimuli' are more efficient.
For this reason I don't think there is any value in interpersonal comparison. Exhale apneas are like walking races (or cricket bowling actions) - difficult to judge.
Having said this I still train almost entirely exhale statics as the 'training stimuli' are more efficient.
hi
Yeah totall agree Will, its not accurate to compare when everyone can be doing it with different amounts of air.
Yeah totall agree Will, its not accurate to compare when everyone can be doing it with different amounts of air.
Will,
What do you mean that the "training stimuli" are more efficient with empty lung statics? I have been training exclusively empty lung statics for awhile, and I notice that my heartrate drops immediately and significantly. So, when I do full lung statics, the initial upwards surge of my heartrate makes it difficult to relax because I am not used to it. Also, with empty lung statics, it doesn't seem to me that I get any training with CO2 tolerance, and it seems like my CO2 tolerance has gone down. So, I have started to train both, first a few empty lung statics, and then one long full lung static.
What's your experience? Do you believe the empty lung static training improves your PB on full lung statics?
What do you mean that the "training stimuli" are more efficient with empty lung statics? I have been training exclusively empty lung statics for awhile, and I notice that my heartrate drops immediately and significantly. So, when I do full lung statics, the initial upwards surge of my heartrate makes it difficult to relax because I am not used to it. Also, with empty lung statics, it doesn't seem to me that I get any training with CO2 tolerance, and it seems like my CO2 tolerance has gone down. So, I have started to train both, first a few empty lung statics, and then one long full lung static.
What's your experience? Do you believe the empty lung static training improves your PB on full lung statics?
Hi Michael, here are my reasons:
- Full lung apneas prolong the easy stage of the apnea - you could be sitting around for 3 or 4 minutes with essentially normal O2 and CO2 levels. During this time you are not training (other than relaxation techniques).
- Full lung apneas take longer to recover from, wasting further time.
- It is true that empty lung apnea doesn't really train hypercapnic tolerance. However I believe that this system cannot be trained nearly as much as hypoxic tolerance. Your body makes concrete adaptations to hypoxia (haemoglobin synthesis etc) beyond a basic tolerance.
Also if you want to train hypercapnic resistance then standard inhale apneas still aren't the most efficient method. The 'one hold one breath' table gives you an almost continuous state of hypercapnia as well as drawing attention to your breathing (with only one breath between, say 1:30 apneas, you'll want to make it a good one).
The only benefit to training inhale static apnea over other forms is if you intend to compete in a static apnea competition in the near future and you want to acclimatize.
- Full lung apneas prolong the easy stage of the apnea - you could be sitting around for 3 or 4 minutes with essentially normal O2 and CO2 levels. During this time you are not training (other than relaxation techniques).
- Full lung apneas take longer to recover from, wasting further time.
- It is true that empty lung apnea doesn't really train hypercapnic tolerance. However I believe that this system cannot be trained nearly as much as hypoxic tolerance. Your body makes concrete adaptations to hypoxia (haemoglobin synthesis etc) beyond a basic tolerance.
Also if you want to train hypercapnic resistance then standard inhale apneas still aren't the most efficient method. The 'one hold one breath' table gives you an almost continuous state of hypercapnia as well as drawing attention to your breathing (with only one breath between, say 1:30 apneas, you'll want to make it a good one).
The only benefit to training inhale static apnea over other forms is if you intend to compete in a static apnea competition in the near future and you want to acclimatize.
1) Can that really happen?!?
2) If so, is it dangerous? what do you do then?
I don't want to imagine what happens if this can happen in a really deep dive...
I don't know if it is possible to invert the epiglottis - I was being hyperbolic (ie it feels as if the epiglottis is about to get sucked down my throat by negative pressure generated by the contraction). My otorhinolaryngology isn't good enough to say for sure, but I have never heard of this happening...
Damn, I can't even quote this word correctly...
I guess it would happen only if the pressure is big enough to break some cartlidge. Or if you got striked in the troat while having such negative prssure..
I rather leave this assumption at 0% for now, since I think no one ever heard of such a case.
how come if your residual volume (rather said respiratory reserve volume) is 1/4 your vital capacity the inhale static isn't 4 times as long as a full exhale?
my pb negative is 2'10'' my pb full inhale isn't 8'40''...
my pb negative is 2'10'' my pb full inhale isn't 8'40''...
Pat Fish,
The reason your inhale/exhale static ratio is not the same as your inhale/exhale lung volume is because you store a significant amount of oxygen in your blood, and there is also energy stored in ATP & creatine phosphate.
Realize that even if you breathed up, and then inhaled water (i.e. absolutely no air in your lungs), your static time wouldn't be zero; you would last a significant time before a blackout due to energy & O2 stored in blood etc...
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
The reason your inhale/exhale static ratio is not the same as your inhale/exhale lung volume is because you store a significant amount of oxygen in your blood, and there is also energy stored in ATP & creatine phosphate.
Realize that even if you breathed up, and then inhaled water (i.e. absolutely no air in your lungs), your static time wouldn't be zero; you would last a significant time before a blackout due to energy & O2 stored in blood etc...
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Pat
There were two sources that seemed to indicate that a full negative static would be about 60%. After a lot of practice with negatives, that number was very close for me.
Aloha
Bill
There were two sources that seemed to indicate that a full negative static would be about 60%. After a lot of practice with negatives, that number was very close for me.
Aloha
Bill
thanks for that eric... it's obvious now. and bill: the ratio exhale inhale static is at 40% for me now... could probably shift if i practiced more.
by the way: when i'm doing full exhale statics (i pack reverse about three times by pulling up my diaphragm) i can hardly do 2'+ in a clean manner ... there is a huge difference between simply fully exhaling and reverse packing i found.
by the way: when i'm doing full exhale statics (i pack reverse about three times by pulling up my diaphragm) i can hardly do 2'+ in a clean manner ... there is a huge difference between simply fully exhaling and reverse packing i found.
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wow that just about blew me across the room powerful exercises i can do the ribs thing and thoroughly enjoy it. i love going literally with no air! it is such a good time.
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