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Ethics of hunting

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G

Gyro

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Jan 11, 2007
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Okay ethical pregunta, an acquaintance of mine owns and operates a dive shop. Additionally he is a free diving sprearo. He is considering a aquatic safari/ hunt tour. I am very openly opposed to the idea of hunting with a tank however he is thinking to offer that option for physically handicapped clients. I'm still indecisive as to how I feel about it. So I thought I would throw the idea out there and hear some other opinions...
 
im termed physically handicapped....broken back and lost use of legs but i still spearfish without air,and when i dont spear,i eat rice aboard ,,,again,i reckon spearing shouldnt be touted for enjoyment cos someone is disabled give them a gun,some air and go kill,we eat to live not live to kill,although ive killed a fair few fishes around the oceans ,but it sure aint for fun,its about finding yr own limits and pushing ones endurance in respect of motherocean,,then eating,if a guy like myself has become handicapped...try harder,so in a nutshell dont let yr mate use tanks and guns,,,,he may as well go buy a rifle and hunt tame deer...get the handicapped guys ,chuck em into 10metres of water with a loaded gun and a weight and send em down.....
 
Reactions: Veronika and Mr. X
although i usually am aginst hunting with scuba (although i dont look down on people who do it), i think id agree with your friend on this particular instance... not everyone has the strength it takes to challenge their condition and continue their hobbies in spite of their particular handicap.... if he's taking them hunting on atour and giving them that pleasure i wont look down on it definitley... maybe just ensure that he maybe sets some basic rules, (bag limit, max size, species, park zones etc...) in that conext i think id agree with him and wont see that as a Breach of ethics of the sport
 
In the words of someone wiser than me:
Pipe? Check
Slippers? Check
Popcorn? Check
Beer? Check

Bring it on! WooHoo!!
Oh pants there is always someone willing to bring this one up
 
I happen to freedive for my fish, but a dead fish is just dead, no matter how much equipment the diver wears.

With long-liners catching everything for miles and trawlers scraping the ocean floor and both of them killing bycatch, why should we be concerned with a guy using scuba to selectively hunt?

And if you think its just not sporting, how did you select that place to draw the line? Aren't masks, fins, and spearguns unnatural?
 
Reactions: colt.45 and Pastor
Pastor said:
In the words of someone wiser than me:
Pipe? Check
Slippers? Check
Popcorn? Check
Beer? Check

Bring it on! WooHoo!!
Oh pants there is always someone willing to bring this one up
Click to expand...

Methinks Pastor has been drinking.....rofl rofl
 
Spaniard said:
Methinks Pastor has been drinking.....rofl rofl
Click to expand...

rofl No mate, not then, have now though
Shame this, damn good thread spoilt by Bills sensible post :ko. Crap I miss a good night out in Liverpool Most exciting thing that happens here is my missus farting in her sleep!
 
Reactions: island_sands
Would it change people's minds if the hunt were for trophy fish? And not necessarily for consumption?

Remember, that just because a significant percentage of spearfishers hunt for food-fish, there are those who hunt simply to kill large (or troublesome) fish.

This sort of activity, if irresponsible, can result in a blackeye for the entire group of spearos.

Chip
 
I know some people that freedive-spearfish for a living. One of them is the reigning world champion, Patricio Saez, from Chile. He won the championship last year in Portugal. But he is far from being rich, and doesn't even own a boat. Others do much better, like some in Florida and the Gulf Coast who have big boats and use very expensive Scuba equipment. Of course they are subject to all legal regulations as commercial fishermen. And they dont waste fish as the trawlers and long liners do.
Now, the immense majority of the spearos I know eat the fish they capture, but to take food to the table is not the number one motivation for practicing this sport. If it were, we would rather go the nearest fish market and buy lobster or whatever the most expensive is, and would still save a lot of money, not to mention time. The truth is we spearfish because we like, or rather we enjoy it tremendously, and we spend a lot of money in equipment and a lot of time in maintaining it and tuning it, etc., because we love to do it, and enjoy our time in the water as much, if not more, than eating the fish. And when we take a big fish, or a fish exceptional for any other reason, we feel good about it and we take pictures to show to whoever we like. Some people call it a "trophy", and maybe yes, you can compare it with a trophy if you put the picture on your wall or even take the fish to a taxidermist to be able to bragg about it forever. But if the fish meat is eaten anyway nobody can say that it was wasted, or that we killed it just to take a picture of it, imho.
 
Reactions: spaghetti
I am inclined to agree with you. While commercial spearfishing can be controversial, as can spearfishing on scuba, people are entitled to their opinions.

If one spears fish simply because they like to shoot fish, and does not care to eat the fish, or even make an effort to ensure they are eaten, then I believe it is detrimental to the public image of the passion (some call sport) that we share.

Shooting fish because you can, and want to, only to later discard the dead fish can be used to demonstrate the undesirable characteristics of spearfishing that many have fought for years to overcome.

Perhaps if it is an invasive species, like the lionfish being found on the east coast, such conduct might have a rational basis. But to kill fish and discard them would be seen by many to be an abuse of the resource.
 
I spearfish freediving because i enjoy doing so. I have friends that enjoy spearfishing using scuba. The key word is enjoy! Its fun and exciting to be hunting in the sea or on the land. Everything taken is eaten, it is illegal to kill game and not eat it. Besides many people around here would love to take all of the fresh fish off of your hands, even clean them for you.
 
It is not illegal to kill game and not eat. Unethical, perhaps. But it occurs more commonly than one might think.
 
Ethics apart, you shouldn't forget to check local laws - spearfishing in scuba indeed is illegal in many countries.
 
ocean_314 said:
In California is against the law to kill any game animal of fish and waste it.
Click to expand...

I'm a California diver and am not aware of such a law. Could you point me to the part of the DFG regulations where this is stated?
 
Seacidal said:
While commercial spearfishing can be controversial, as can spearfishing on scuba, people are entitled to their opinions.
Click to expand...
Yes, some people criticize it, although when you think about it it is really better for conservation, because you can be selective: you dont kill dolphins, nor sea turtles, nor any other fish thats protected for any reason. And you dont destroy the coral reefs, like trawlers do. AFAIK the only state that banned commercial spearfishing is Hawaii, and they did it allegedly for (very questionable, imho) health reasons: what is actually banned is the sale of any fish whose body have been "pierced" (or speared). It is silly, because much if not all of the fish that is caught by long liners (like tuna) is gutted immediately, before putting it in ice.
 
ive never been able to see what the problem with hunting on scuba is.. ive never hunted on scuba by personal choice, and also because where i hunt, freediving is easier, but some people are so against it that it isnt funny.. wish some of them would actually give a logical reason for being against it.

commercial spearing is better than longlining, dont see what the problem is with that either... commericial spearos are highly selective, skilled divers, and they never waste fish, no need to worry about commericial divers killing off dozens of undersize fish, so, whats the big issue with that also???
 
I can agree that industrial fishing would make less of an impact if it were done with spears and I have many a friend who earn their living in that way. I guess the biggest problem that I have is when the passion is turned into a sport.
I have not intentions of provoking an argument here but my opinion is the more on the level you are with your game, fish, dear, elk ect. ect. the more primitive and primal the hunt the more fulfillment one would get out of it. Yes I realize the by using fins, mask, spears guns and such it elevates your status but how ridicules would it be to dive down with nothing and attempt to catch a fish with your bare hand. And yes I am aware that in Hawaii, Micronesia and several other locations there are such century old techniques. But be real here.
Additionally the argument that the fish are becoming more scarce in some hunting spots so one has to go deeper down to find them is absolute rubbish. One should either train harder or lay off the site for a few seasons instead of strapping on a tank
So those are my three cents.
On a side note big ups to you Mr. Brudive, I have been working in a military hospital lately kind of interning in orthopedics to better myself at post amputation care and have had the sometimes pleasure and sometimes pain of working with quite a few amputees. I admire your drive and will to over come many don’t have that and my hat is off to you sir!
 
I can't speak as an experienced spearo, but my 2 cents is:

The Ama divers of Japan and Korea don't use scuba
The Russians just north of there use scuba

Guess which ones decimated the shellfish beds?

I figure the more technical assistance used, the more regulated it should be

with special situations considered individually.

DDeden
 
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