Ethics of hunting

[Mr. X]

Would it change people's minds if the hunt were for trophy fish? And not necessarily for consumption?

If you hunt an animal and kill it, you should clean it and eat it IMHO. Failing that, give it to someone or something to eat (pet food/bait/chum/...). [Lateral thought: if you just threw it back in the sea, chances are something would eat it - crab, shark, seabirds, bacteria,...:hmm]

OMD gaves some examples of what seemed quite ethical forms of scuba equipped spearing on an earlier thread -- I wouldn't rush to judge others.

 

[spaghetti]

One thing I've learned from Deeper Blue and its international perspective: the world is big, environments are different the places you go, and in every different environment you find different hunting cultures, rules and ethics.

If I'll ever see anyone hunting on scuba in the italian waters, I will immediately call the Coast Guard to give him some VERY hard times. Not only because it's illegal, but mainly because in our waters there are fishes which are too easy to hunt on scuba (groupers above all), and easy hunting turns to overkill. BUT if I come to know of anyone getting some good fish by scuba hunting in the Mexico Gulf, off the coasts of South Africa or wherever in the Ocean it is legal, he has my congratulations for the clever dive and the nice catch.

This said, it's industrial fishing depleting the sea, not any spearo, scuba or no scuba. MY 2 euro cents.

 

[scottie3030]

i agree its industrial fishin doin the damage! i believe if you wana eat fish you should go out and catch it yourself, if people could see the damage caused by the trawlers then i think they'ed think twice about buyin the crap on sale in the supermarkets!

This said, it's industrial fishing depleting the sea, not any spearo, scuba or no scuba. MY 2 euro cents.

 

[ocean_314]

Bill in the DFG ocean regs its 1.87 waste of fish. This law is in every reg i have ever read including the hunting regs where its waste of game.

 

[Seacidal]

Bill in the DFG ocean regs its 1.87 waste of fish. This law is in every reg i have ever read including the hunting regs where its waste of game.

I am aware of the regs in California, but I don't believe that all states have a similar requirement. I understand that some fish, like tarpon, are hunted by spearfishers for mere trophies, and then discarded.

Clearly, it appears that different strokes for different folks can be found all around.

 

[Mr. X]

...If I'll ever see anyone hunting on scuba in the italian waters, I will immediately call the Coast Guard to give him some VERY hard times. Not only because it's illegal, but mainly because in our waters there are fishes which are too easy to hunt on scuba (groupers above all), and easy hunting turns to overkill.

One of the examples of scuba spearing I have heard of is using a handspear. It strikes me that it might be quite difficult. Scuba strikes me as potentially quite dangerous too (although I have come across scuba divers -not spearos - exploring just 20-30 feet from shore in 20 ft of water & another time in less than 10 foot of water, where a snorkel would probably have been more appropriate - but if that's what interests them, why not).

 

[Dobs]

I don't want to give opinions on scuba vs. freediving or the ethics of either of them. I just want to point you to a film about a handicapped hunter you might want to check out.
The film is "Pedro Carbonel, Un Campeon en Galicia". It is in spanish and Pedro Carbonell (several times world champion) hunts with a friend of his, who has lost his leg in an accident. Impressive and inspiring film. The guy catches as much fish as the world champion...

 

[trad_archer]

post removed by Sarge for inappropriate language.

 

[wet]

Sorry if this one is sort of off-topic, but regarding modern industrial fishing effects on oceanic ecosystem & starving fish...if the fish ain't there, what's left to hunt?

The Starving Ocean


DDeden

 

[josedesucre]

Right. Its dramatic and its stupid. Killing the golden eggs goose. What's more frustrating is that everybody has been talking about this for the last 50 or 60 years, and fishermen have tried to do someting about it, but not quite enough yet, or nothing seems to work now. Two days ago I watched a documentary about the declining of the fishing industry in Gloucester, NE. Fishing has been restricted now to only 49 days a year. And yet the cod and other sea food populations are not rebounding as expected. It is sad, really.

 

[strangelove]

I think the only way out is fish farming, the market forces are too strong for any thing else. Most of the comercial fisherman I know could careless about their impact on the enviroment.
I remember in Brazil back on the 80's there was a big concern about the pantanao aligator (region south of the Amazon), getting extinct because of comercial hunting. But than came gator farming that produced a better leather and took those comercial hunters out business.

 

[trad_archer]

Billy Mack.....When you returning to the "other" forum? We miss you! I think i just got banned from this site so look forward to your post on the other forum.....shane

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Feb 6, God willing and the creek don't rise.

 

[Oldsarge]

That doesn't mean you can't come back here for regular visits, y'know. :hmm

 

[covert]

ive never been able to see what the problem with hunting on scuba is.. ive never hunted on scuba by personal choice, and also because where i hunt, freediving is easier, but some people are so against it that it isnt funny.. wish some of them would actually give a logical reason for being against it.

commercial spearing is better than longlining, dont see what the problem is with that either... commericial spearos are highly selective, skilled divers, and they never waste fish, no need to worry about commericial divers killing off dozens of undersize fish, so, whats the big issue with that also???

simple you can draw a direct correlation with what the game farms do here in South Africa. Put a lion in a cage and have a hunter shoot the animal. Which is'nt hunting its slaughter. On land hunting is suppose to be a skill, ie tracking the animal, following it on foot till you get it. Then hunt with a good clean shot.

Same thing applies with spearing: what is the challenge of sitting at the bottom of the ocean with a tank waiting for a fish to swim past. Then carefully taking aim and killing it. The chanllenge of spearfishing as a sport is the fact that you have limited bottom time, and you have to make your kill with speed, precision and on your own endurance and with limited oxygen. Its still probaly not fair on the fish but it sure as hell gives them a better chance. And it levels the playing field just a bit.

If someone that is not physically disabled shoots with scuba, wel (personal opinion) I can't see that person as being sportsman. And therefore I cant condone it. Its a bit putting a Ferarri against a bicycle.

 

[deep thinker]

BUT if I come to know of anyone getting some good fish by scuba hunting in the Mexico Gulf, off the coasts of South Africa or wherever in the Ocean it is legal, he has my congratulations for the clever dive and the nice catch.

Hey there Spago, just so you know, allthough you might just have used it as a example. Its illegal to spear on scuba in SA, infact your not even allowed to carry scuba and spearfishing gear on the same boat, also we are not allowed to dive lobster ( Crayfish ) on scuba or freedive for em from a boat, once again if they catch you with crayfish and dive gear on the same boat the fine naturally doubles, so say you have undersize crayfish and you went over the limit and you have diving gear on your boat, youd be paying a fine of R1500 per crayfish, which I beleive is rite cause all that gear just gives you a unfair advantage, allthough I do feel that we should be allowed to freedive for them from a boat.
Now for the ethics part, I beleive that everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I personally freedive to spearfish for 2 reasons, 1- because there is more of a challenge to it and that is what makes the sport more of a passion, its a way to push your own limits in a environment where you are not the one best equiped to be there and you are actually there only as long as your body can keep you there, its a way to overcome personal boundaries and limitations and 2 - because its illegal to do it on scuba, allthough even if it was leagal I wouldnt do it for the above mentioned reason. Now there are those out there who dive down to unmentionable depths like mentioned on other threads here and allthough I dont agree with the methods its still their opinion and choice and I do respect them for the technicality of the dive they did, cause its something I cant do, we mite try to influence their opinion to suite our personal view but it still boils down to the individual and how they see the game. I also think its in the way we were brought up and how we see our own role in nature and our surroundings, its a matter of do we feel were respecting nature, if so then were playing a ethical game. Sho that was a long one well thats my 2c worth

 

[sickbugs]

fair enough it might be sometimes easier to get fish while scuba, but in the end, its fish on the table isnt it?? better than buying it in the supermarket anyways, where is the challenge in that?

some dives that the scuba guys do, just wouldnt make sense to do while freediving, for example, deep rig spearfishing (150+) how many spearos out there can freedive that??? how about technical spearing in all up to 400+ feet deep, how about freeshafting like the florida and gulf of mexico guys do, that there is a whole different skill in itself.

 

[josedesucre]

I also freedive when spearfishing, but if you think about it, using a Scuba is just a step further (a loooong step, granted) than using a speargun. It is just another technical advance, like going from a polespear to a single pair of rubber bands speargun, then two bands, three, etc. If you want to draw the line at using scuba, then why not at using spear guns, or limit the number of bands, for instance? ( I am not advocating anything, its just a rethorical question).

 

[Mr. X]

I think the only way out is fish farming, the market forces are too strong for any thing else. Most of the comercial fisherman I know could careless about their impact on the enviroment.

I try not to eat farmed fish, as some local streams were badly polluted by them -- and the farms put themselves out of business by ruining the waters. I have also heard reports that the fish often have lower nutritional value: more fat, less omega 3/6, antibiotics, pollution, disease/infestation, artificial hormones,.... presumably because of the unnatural, cramped conditions they are "grown" in. It's like battery farming but for fish rather than fowl.

That said, I know others that will only eat farmed fish. Good luck to them. Perhaps in the future it will be better - perhaps more natural (but I wouldn't count on it ).

 

[covert]

I also freedive when spearfishing, but if you think about it, using a Scuba is just a step further (a loooong step, granted) than using a speargun. It is just another technical advance, like going from a polespear to a single pair of rubber bands speargun, then two bands, three, etc. If you want to draw the line at using scuba, then why not at using spear guns, or limit the number of bands, for instance? ( I am not advocating anything, its just a rethorical question).

You make a valid point and so do allot of other people on this thread.

But as you well know spearguns are commonly accepted due to the nature of some fish that we hunt. Some fish would be almost impossible to spear with a polespear. Simply becuase as humans we are just too slow. But i think generally worldwide there are accepted equipment and unaceptable equipment.

as far as diving to 200m+ youll obviously have to use scuba for that. But my personal opinion about this topic is. Spearing is a sport. Where spearo's rely on certain basic equipment mask,fins,wetsuit,speargun. To try and hunt fish in their natural habitat where they have the advantage. Where we are hampered by our ability to not breath under water. And this drives the spearo to train him / herself to the top of their ability to stay underwater for as long as humanly possible. While developing hunting techniques to suit the situation. And thats what makes spearing absolute fun.

The rush, the challenge, the difficulty of the hunt, pushing yourself to the limit thats what its all about.

Personal opinion: If you go down (for normal spearing conditions 10-30m) with scuba gear. You remove the entire hunting concept from the eqaution. And you might as well go to the supermarket or harbour and buy some fish.

And I think this will always be an opinionated topic. And maybe we should actually just make this a poll on the site. And have as many people vote to see what the result will be. :t