Euro gun accuracy problem (kinda long)

[GoblinShark]

Hey guys, I tested out the gun on Saturday as planned. The results were not very good. This trip was much more about testing out my new (used) boat rather than a fishing trip. We ran the boat for a while checking the performance and then trolled for a little with no luck. We then made our way back in towards Fowey Rock where I did some diving. There were fish all over the place but most just tropicals but I did find a few hogs here and there and some other fish. The problem I had with the gun was that it was shooting all over the place. I took about 10 - 12 shots and only managed to hit one 15" hogfish. I am not sure why the gun shot so poorly, but I think it is because the crimp might be hiting the closed muzzle a little as the shaft end is coming out and that it causing the eradic shooting. I mean I was within 6 feet or less of range all the times I shot and only hit a fish once. On my second attempt, I was sorounded by a school of big cero mackerel and when I went to take off the safety to take a shot the damn thing jammed and by the time I managed to unjam it all the fish were gone :waterwork. Oh and that one hogfish I caught I later lost during the dive becuase of a stupid reason and then found about 15 minutes later with a HUGE moray eel trying to swallow it. I did manage to get my hog away from the angry eel and made it back to the boat to miss some more shots on other hogs and mangroves. Overall though, I had a great time and just enjoyed seeing all the fish and doing a bit of freediving. I had the line crimped on the second hole of the shaft from the end towards the tip. I now crimped the line on the first hole at the end of the shaft. I am using black 400 pound test mono and a 2.2 mm double barrel crimp. Any suggestions on what to do about the accuracy problem?
Thanks

 

[Murat]

I always attach my line to the last hole (at the end of the shaft) but i dunno if this can solve the problem.

 

[Jay Styron]

I run my line through the hole fartherest forward, usually ahead of the notches. When you crimp your loop make sure the crimp will swing back and lay behind the shaft. Depending on your shaft setup the loop may be several inches long. I do this because I've had several of the smaller diameter shafts break at the notch if a fish gets it jammed in some rocks and you start pulling. In fact it happened this weekend. If you use the hole ahead of the notches then you'll still have your fish. If not then you'll end up w/ the last six inches of the shaft and the fish will still have the rest. Also I'd recommend dropping down to 250-300# leader and go w/ the softest you can, such as janki(sp?). I'm guessing that you're using HiSeas leader which is very tough and abasion resistant but very stiff also. This makes it hard for the leader to make the sharp radius as it's bending to follow the shaft through the muzzle.
Jay

 

[Iyadiver]

That top of the line leader is called JINKAI, some Jap made. Said to be bery bery nice mono.......

 

[Ben Gowland]

I use Kevlar/nylon line instead which avoids the problems of the crimps (there are knots instead, but these have never caught). I also attach it to the last hole.

Ben

 

[GoblinShark]

First of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY JAY!!! I am going to have to change to a softer, thinner line like you suggested. I see what you mean about the resistance there is when the loop has to do that flip and go through the muzzle. I am still going to use this line on my pneumatic though since it works awesome on that gun. About the shaft, it has two holes but neither of them are in front of the notches. I will attach two pics so you can see how I have the shaft rigged right now. I am going to buy some Jinkai line like you said since I do know that it is the best mono on the market but also one of the most expensive. Guys, thanks for all the help.

 

[GoblinShark]

Here is another pic of the shaft.

 

[Jay Styron]

Thanks GS, I'm not gettin' older, just gettin' better. On my shafts I drill a hole just in front of the most forward notch if it doesn't come w/ one. If you don't have a drill press its pretty hard to do so I'd go w/ the most forward hole on the shaft. If you can drill a hole I use a 3/32 bit and then use a larger bit to flare out the edges of the hole. When I've tried the line on the end of the shaft it seemed like there was too much restriction trying to get the shaft in the handle. Hope this helps.
Jay

 

[andrsn]

GS,

what gun are you using and w/ what sized bands?

curiously,
anderson

 

[GoblinShark]

Jay, thanks for the help. I do have a drill press but I was worried about putting even more holes on such a small diameter shaft. I'll give it a try in a couple of days. Andrsn, I am using my little brother's gun. It is a sporasub carbon sniper 100 cm gun with one 16 mm band. My brother wants me to put on another 16 mm band since the muzzle fits two 16 mm bands. Why do you ask?

 

[Jay Styron]

Hey GS,
If he has a 6.5mm shaft I wouldn't recommend putting another 16mm band on. I think you'll have alot of trouble w/ shaft whip. You could go to a single 20mm power band or if the shaft is 7mm you could probably double up. I wouldn't worry about an extra hole in the shaft, if it breaks it will break at the notches but chances are you'll bend it on a big fish before that happens. Safe diving.
Jay

 

[andrsn]

jay answered why i was asking. one of the biggest problems of accuracy is shaft whip due to overpowering.

another thing to look at is whether or not your spearshaft is overhanging your muzzle too much. if the spear's too long for the gun, you're pretty much s.o.l.

safe hunting,
anderson

 

[shaneshac]

Sporasub Sniper

I have also had problems with my Sporasub Sniper 115. It has to do with the sniper muzzle causing the shaft to spring off the end and shoot down instead of straight. To test this I placed a sea urchin on the sea bed and took shots to see how far off target the spear was. If anyone has a solution to this please let me know. :duh

 

[fuzz]

Shanesac, that is true scientific genius!

I used to do that when I was younger....... but I used to shoot at rocks......... :naughty :head


Yes, I've learned better.
Kind of.

 

[Iyadiver]

GS & Shane,

Since that Euro has a closed muzzle, why don't u try test shooting without any shooting line for verification sake. Keep the bands size and quantity within limits as Jay mentioned.

Try to isolate the problem one by one.
Next will be ur flopper, is it in good condition ?

For GS, if u mention a gun shoot all over the place, I think it is a serious fault somewhere. Try looking at the shaft to confirm straightness. A 400# mono is a lot of drag for that kind of thin shaft, 250# as Jay mentioned is good size. Is ur crimp the low profile type ? Some aluminum crimp is so fat, I think it may cause too much resistance.

For Shane, low shots only ( if powerband is correct, not overpowered ) could be the flopper has a small factory designed bent on its tip to allow better flopper dis-engagement. I heard this one produce low shot if it is Tahitian ( flopper on top ). U might be able to adjust the aiming. Consistent low does not mean the gun is not accurate, all over the place is what I call inaccurate. Are u shooting within the proper range ? At further away range than the intended design, u will get low shots cause there is only one way to go for the shaft after the energy is spent :....... down. Try not to believe what a manufacturer stated as shooting range, give it 20-30% discount.

At 16mm band and ur gun size with 6.35mm shaft, 2.5 - 3 meter ( 8-10 feet ) effective maybe realistic.

Hope u guys get the problem sorted out. Good luck.

 

[GoblinShark]

Iya, thanks for pointing the flopper thing out. I remember reading something about the bend making the gun shoot low. I think that the thick stiff line and big crimp coupled with the upward bend in the flopper caused the gun to shoot so bad. The way I now see it is that if as the shaft is fired the crimp bumps into the muzzle it could cause the deviations in the accuracy and the "shooting every where" I experienced since the crimp would not bump into the muzzle in the exact same place each time. I went out today and bought some 250 pound soft line and tiny crimps. I have to go out and buy a Riffe euro flopper this weekend. If I buy a Riffe euro shaft for this gun will a second band be possible? It is a little thicker than the current shaft plus no notches. Oh yeah the flopper is in good conditions and the shaft is perfectly straight.

 

[icarus pacific]

You're on the right, er, track by going to the better shaft and slightly lighter line. Not having notches is always a good thing; sorry to all my JBL bruddahs... but you go with what ya got. I think that swapping in a single 20 mm band with nylon line wishbones is going to be the ticket for you in terms of simplicity and oomph.

Just as an aside, take a look at the bond between the muzzle and the barrel. I saw one the other day where the muzzle was 10 or so degrees off the same line as the barrel. Looked like the owner used it to pop that scallop off the rock, rather than reaching for the iron... that's just a guess though, never having done that myself.


sven

 

[fuzz]

You could also go with an open muzzle. One of its advantages is that the shaft/crimp/line flies unrestricted. Just make sure the muzzle has a decent line anchor to keep your shaft under control in the current/tracking/etc.

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi GS,

My experience with thinnest shaft is limited to 7mm Hawaiian type by Riffe. I don't know how thinner one will act up on 16mm band x 2. I tried Riffe 7mm ( 9/32 ) all the way to 3 x 9/16 ( 14mm ) on 32" and 46", they are OK but remember that the Riffe-s I used them on has full shaft support/track. I guess ur gun does not have full shaft track.

Jay and Anderson should know better cause the have Euro like u.
Fixed band mounting like Euro is a bit difficult to experiment with bands. If u do an open muzzle like Fuzz said, u might get away with 1 x 16mm and 1 x 12.7mm.

Anyway try ur 16mm on Riffe shaft + thin shooting line. From there we analize if there is room for improvement. Watch out for muzzle bad alignment like Sven say. Just inspect all possibility. Barrel bending under tension can also be a problem I heard.

Anyway be patient and good luck.

 

[shaneshac]

Sporasub Sniper

That Sporasub was shooting funny since the day I bought it. £50 was not a bad price I thought. I have changed to thicker bands as the stock bands are crap but still does the same. The shaft is new and straight. I am thinking of changing to a Viper muzzle and see what happens. In the meantime I will try to see if it has to do with the line setup. Thanks.

Does anyone know any site where they have reviewed a series of guns????