Euro vs. American???

[peskydor]

Originally posted by anton
Sorry for the photo quality but I tried to paste together a few instead of posting 3-4 separate photos. This is supposed to show the shaft notches which in my case were WAY to sharp. These are after much filing down. I had to replace the dyneema with this wire cheepo version for now since that was all I could get here. My intention is to try and find a better solution in the future but this at least keeps me shooting for now.

BTW Most here use these wire wishbones on their guns (I don't like them since they are louder under water but oh well for now) I did not see anyone mention them so I figured I would throw it out... never saw them myself except here in Qatar but I imagine they are about.

After reviewing this infomercial thread it appears that some divers are not satisfied with commercial wishbones (expensive junk) or with strings, homemade, commercial or otherwise.

Here is an indestructible cable wishbone that is superior to any commercial offerings. It is home made only. There is a small initial investment in materials but the actual work is kinda fun. Takes a little practice to get it right.

You will need to go to a chandlery (sailboat shop) and purchase a length of steel cable. This is not the stuff used in the usual cables. It is 19 X 1, 3/32 diameter. A mould must be made. This is a small block of aluminum drilled 5/16. You will need a small bottle of Kapp Comet liquid flux and a roll of radio solder (resin core) A propane torch is needed. Heat the mould and run in a puddle of solder. BEND the cable NOW, not after the ends are cast. Dip the cable end in flux and then place in the solder. Remove heat and remove the cable at the INSTANT that the solder hardens. The hot resin acts as a lubricant and will facilitate removal. Dip wishbones in acetone to remove flux residue.The picture below shows new wishbones and a pair that were used for 5 years without problem. They are a little bit wrinkled as the gun they were used on required a one hand reach.

 

[peskydor]

Typical setup on Biller gun.

 

[peskydor]

Some typical tools. The file and carbide saw are needed if the wishbone notches are too tight or wedge shaped with sharp edges. Note the small aluminum mould.

 

[peskydor]

The mould should be drilled in a press, not with a hand drill. If there is any small irregularity in the mould, removal of the cable may be difficult. Not shown in the tool pic is an end cutter, an oversight. The end cutter is preferred for making clean cuts on cable. I cut my wishbones to 6 1/2 inches. They are then bent immediately. Failure to do so will ruin the wishbone. The cable strands must reorient themselves before the ends are cast. These cable wishbones will last a long, long time. However, certain applications,eg use with pins or fins require some precautions. After the wishbone is inserted in the rubber make a mark with Sharpie pen at the wishbone bend. Install on gun. Cock your gun with the new rubber(s) using the marks for a guide. Let the cocked gun set for 10 minutes. Uncock and you are done.

 

[Murat]

Thanks Gilbert, i will keep this in mind. I have to decide about my graduation project this semester. But i think it will more "formal" thats the way teachers like it or may be i should design speargun with electronic tracking and trigger system muhahaha:duh

 

[rigdvr]

The Merlo guns are truly art. If Im not mistaken, Bill Delebar has one doesnt he Mark?

 

[peskydor]

The cable wishbone was originally developed by Wes Andrew and members of the Addicts (inventor of mid handle gun). It is intended as a sturdy replacement for wire wishbones and 49 strand cables, specifically for powering very large guns using spears with shaft notches or 'flight tabs' (Prodanovich gun). (The mould is my invention but the basic design goes to the others).

The 3/32 (2.4mm) cable will work on shafts as small as 5/16 (7.9mm). It will work on smaller shafts with modifications to the shaft, eg a rib or half fin with a 4mm notch ground through the rib into the shaft. (like some commercial designs).

The American solution has been to build relatively expensive shafts and cheap wishbones. The Euros and South Africans take a variety of approaches. Generally, they end up with somewhat cheaper shafts and expensive wishbones. The South Africans may attach the shooting line to the butt end putting serious strain on the shaft notches. In any case, with a thin shaft, less than 7.9 mm, it is necessary to come up with a strong wishbone which will fit into a shallow notch. Some wishbone designs, which cost up to $16 each, are articulated and flattened so as to ride in a shallow groove.

It is encumbent on those who may be dissatified with their present arrangement to arrive at their own solution to a perceived problem. This may be regarded as thankless work and not as glamourous as building a personal gun. However, the success or hindrance of a successful hunt depends on sorting out such details in advance.

 

[divefan]

We lost two good spero in last two months

Murat:

I read a lot on the forum but don't post a lot unless something really moves me to comment. Your statement has prompted me to write something.

I believe that in the freediving/spearfishing community the risk of death from SWB is taken a bit too lightly. Now before I go any further let me state that I am NOT an expert in the sport. But I do possess common sense and good judgment having lived well into late middle age.

My wife and I are long time accomplished scuba divers that have had an interest in freediving for sometime. We recently spent four days in July in Miami, Florida with Kirk Krack and Martin Stepanek learning freediving techniques. The four days consisted of classroom, pool, and open bluewater diving. Without going into all the details of what was covered the one most important topic that was taught and stressed over and over was SAFETY. How to freedive safely and what to do when things don't go as planned. Or better said, how to save your buddy's life from a simple case of SWB. It was stressed that if you freedive often enough and get good enough at it this WILL occur. It is not unexpected but the norm. However, NO ONE should die from it. We continually practiced rescue techniques over the four days. Many of the participants dove to the point of SWB and were very easily revived by others in the group. In fact, it became so simple and easy that many of the participants were TRYING to actually get to the point of SWB so they could be the ones being rescued.

Now I am not here to promote Kirk Krack or his seminars. But what I am trying to say is that I believe freedivers/spearos who do not already know the basic rescue/safety techniques should find a similar way to learn them. The ones that already know them should practice them in their regular activities

Reading about 2 spearos dying from Murat and reading about a spearo death in Hawaii at the US National Championships and who knows how many other deaths that we don't read about is really too many people dying in my opinion. Too many people dying in a sport that really shouldn't have even one death at all if basic safety is practiced.

This is probably not the thread to bring this up but since Murat mentioned it here first I thought I would respond here as well.

 

[Murat]

You are right divefan but those spearos made the biggest mistake that they can by diving alone:naughty If there is nobody to rescue the rest is not important:waterwork

 

[SpearoPimp]

so how do i learn the saftey/resuce tecs?

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Hi Rig,

You guys better start to batten down the hatches, looks like the storm has a good chance of coming that way now.
Yes you're right, Bill Delabar has one of Merlo's guns, I actually got to try that one too. After I put a trip together to Louisiana using Al Walker's charter service a few years ago with Bill and a good friend of mine Alvaro Martinez, Bill decided to go back to Louisiana and work with Al. Alvaro left his Merlo gun with Bill, gracious guy that he is always giving his friends gifts, and I think he secured an open invitation to go diving there when he wanted. Next time I go there I might try that gun again.

Spearopimp, if you are in Miami you should try to sign up for one of Kirk Kracks coursed when he offers them down there. I advertise his site on my site, not because I profit at all from it, but because I also hope that its valuable info and can save someone's life.

Ciao, Mark

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

2005 Master America sneak peak

Hello my Deeper Blue tribesman. It's been a few months that I've been offline from DB, but aside from the still frozen ground, everything else is blooming early this year. It's nice to hop on the boards and as usual see how much passion and conviction the subject of "spearguns" always brings to the table. This time of year guys like me work on new projects and find out the latest on new product developments from Omer. We reflect back on new ideas that came from the previous seasons hunting discoveries on how to constantly improve the products available to spearfisherman and we brainstorm the good ideas and the feasible ones and test them to try to bring these ideas into fruition into the new year before it's time to get back in the water.

Yesterday to wake me up from the winter trans-in vernal state I've been in we received a visit from a Navy Seal, a DB member and relative newcomer but avid spearfisherman named Tim O'Day, who after recently transferring from Southern California to Fort Bragg North Carolina, was in Norfolk at the Naval Base and decided to hop onto the expressway to Virginia Beach to our facility for a visit.

We got into the usual spearfisherman chat about the different conditions, the kelp and yellowtail and white sea bass diving he was used to, and I shed some light on what the diving was like here for him and then of course he wanted to see the latest from Omer. After I showed him the preproduction prototypes of the Master Americas his impressions convinced me that I should dedicate some time to share them with you today.

I'm going to recap a few major features of this speargun which shares a great compromise between beautiful design and function, two key elements that in my mind make for an excellent product. It has been such a great privilege for me to have a say in the consultation of this product for the Oceanic markets that I’m gleaming with enthusiasm to share it with the world. And of course, here's a few pre advertorial shots of the new gun too:

Here is the muzzle on the 100/115/130cm guns with the front of the stock shaped to accomodate loop bands.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Master America project, apex model of the Omer speargun line:

Design- Marco Pisello - an established architect and interior designer who lives and works in Carate Brianza ourside of Milan. A spearfishing enthusiast who between the 80's and 90's took part in several 1st category (major league vs minors for spearfishing basically in Italy) winning many trophies.

Production: limited to 200 pieces for 2005

Design Process – Marco Pisello teamed up with the technical department at Omer to make the architectural drawings (of his early prototype which he commissioned to Omer) CNC friendly through the use of CAD 3D and 4D design software used in Omer's technical department.

Manufacturing process: outsourced to an established high end Italian furniture manufacturer disposing of CNC machines supplied the manufacturing process using these M.Pisello/Omer designs. The initial year the Master America debuted in the European market 2003 ½) the 500 piece production was sold out and a rerun especially catered to the necessities and differences of the US and Oceanic markets was considered using Teak wood after strong pressure from guys like me who were convinced and sold on it after trying the design and putting 50 pieces of the European production model out into the US market for trials. (see early trials from unaffiliated outsiders in the first pages of this thread) If you are not familiar with CNC here are the basic advantages of this production method as worded by Gilbert C., a private member of Deeper Blue, who employed this technique in his own custom speargun production: “The entire gun is shaped using advanced CNC routing methods on a custom machine built from my own hands. I spent six months designing and building this machine to do one thing, make spearguns. It was well worth it. I used to spend at least twice the amount of time shaping a gun using manual tools. And even then, there were always inconsistencies from one gun to the next and the shape was limited to simple straight cuts and roundovers. I can now design entirely in CAD and expect accurate and precise cuts from the CNC router. Ahh, the beauty of computer aided manufacturing techniques.”

In a few words, CNC machining allows consistencies in precision from piece to piece and the ability to make curved cuts and the milling in the stock that cannot be replicated by typical routers, tables saws etc and can usually only be done by hand by experienced wood craftsman (guys like Merlo).

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Teak Master America

Wood: Teak, Burmese teak to be precise. Teak is synonymous with the best wood for marine applications in that it does not require a stain or sealer for protection thanks to its natural silicous, high silicone, content.

Burmese teak is regarded by experts as the highest grade of teak wood compared to other varieties, mainly because, of the method it is harvested compared to other varieties of teak around the world. The soil content and the harvesting time of the trees in tree teak farms is of a higher quality than elsewhere do to the temperate region where it comes from and because it is aged slower and trees are harvested only when they reach a certain maturity. Another nice feature of Burmese teak is the way it is harvested, man drawn elephants are still used to extract it from the ground creating a very special relationship between animal and person which has disappeared elsewhere and been replaced by modern logging equipment. It is also Eco friendly in that Burmese teak is certified and mostly comes from teak farms and never natural forests. The demise of genuine Honduran Mahogany for instance is due to the thoughtless actions of short sighted loggers who downed it’s native forests. Everything available is generally lesser quality and genuine Honduran mahogany fetches a very high price.

Burmese teak is hard to differentiate from other lesser types of teak like Indonesian teak but as a rule of thumb it is a rich golden brown heart wood while the soap wood is pale yellow. The Master America barrels are laminated using 6 laminations to ensure rigidity and eliminating any possibility of warping and glued together specifically. But more importantly 6 laminations are used because Teak has a natural variation in density of roughly 25-30%, basically not all teak is homogeneous, and therefore one piece may weigh up to 30% more or less than an identical sized piece.

These inherent differences in the wood were considerations that couldn’t be blown off for the proper balance of the gun and therefore all the strips of teak used are weighed so that they conform to a specific weight criterion and the ones that fall outside of this criteria aren’t used.

The shape of the barrel takes the classic cuttlefish Master shape with integrated wings which enhances lateral tracking and indentions in the teak are made to snug the fittings for the muzzle to anchor it securely. The hole for the second band is also grooved nicely to conceal the band and integrate it nicely in the barrel once loaded. This barrel shape is a proven design from former Master models and in the Master America version is beefier and the mass is increased to increase the mass for the use of two bands compared to previous models that were designed around one band.

 

[mjacobs]

Looks VERY nice, Mark. It's a lovely evolution and just has to be a sweet shooter!
Mark

 

[anton]

Looks beautiful so far Mark. I am sure I speak for many when I say we are awaiting <final> photos after hearing so much and seeing some bits and pieces! When are you folks shooting to release it? or do you have a date yet??
anton

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

I Teaked the Master

Components: The muzzle is another unique innovation in as far as muzzle designs go in that it accommodates the typical screw in strait pull bands that keep the bands in line with the shaft as well as leaving it an open muzzle so that any style of sharkfin shaft or thicker shaft can be used and of course providing a clear line of sight down to the tip. Constructed from solid stainless and anchored through to the bottom with a line anchor using SS hex key bolts and injection molded plastic gaskets between wood and metal.

The handle is the T-20 with three modifications that I asked Omer to undertake. A bigger removable butt pad to accommodate loading of multiple bands, a stainless steel line release rather than the standard T-20 to accommodate two wraps of heavy mono, and a line anchor loop in the front to make rigging of the shooting line more efficient and faster. The mechanism of course is the awesome Valerio Grassi design for which he became famous for when he founded Omer long ago, a three piece leverage mechanism. Unofficial outside tests using specific machines recently tested this mechanism up to 308Kgs/678lbs of band pressure before it gave in so two or three thick bands or more will never be a problem. It has the ever-present advantage of remaining easy to pull and sensitive when band power is increased compared to two piece mechanisms that naturally gets stiffer as band load increases. What this translates to in terms of use is that with two or three bands the trigger is as easy to pull as if using a single band and therefore it won’t cause a flinching of the wrist or inadvertent movement to squeeze the trigger which could compromise the aim as it will tend to move the front of the gun.

Shafts – the 90-115cm guns are set up for either use of single 18mm Power band with 17/64” (6.75mm) low profile sharkfin shafts, two power 18mm bands with a 9/32” (7mm) x 63” shaft for the 115cm or 67” or the 130cm, or three 18mm power bands with a 5/16”(8mm) shaft and sharkfins on the 130cm with break away slip tip. All these configurations are suitable for the balance of the gun and give a lot of versatility depending on the divers preference.

Final personal considerations. There is an analogy I think is appropriate. This is a high performance speargun with many considerations aimed at fanatical spearfisherman like myself who can appreciate these virtues and have owned many other guns and have a certain spearfishing experience. They will retail on the high end in the $600-700 range. If you like motorcycles the Master America is like the Ducati or the high end Honda racing motorcycles compared to the typical American wooden gun with a certain prestige that are more like Harley Davison bikes. They're not as light and agile and acceleration isn't nearly what it should be but the sound of that exhaust and the chrome and all that brute horsepower just makes people love them. Don’t get me wrong I like Harleys and plan on buying one one day. They’re heavier, tougher, sound and look meaner and don’t quite have the same technology but they are well appreciated by a different sort of motorcycle enthusiast than the high performance enthusiast.

It is my strong belief that not one is better than the other since it is ultimately the user and his personal preference and taste that decides what speargun style he or she likes. It is fun and worthwhile to understand the attractions of both types of motorcycles just like this new generation of speargun. The Master America is a gun that I think deserves special notice since it touches on some new innovations which to the best of my knowledge have never been produced before and it combines a traditionalist sense (high end wood manufacturing) with a new technological approach in its design and production.

Mark and Anton, thanks for the early comments! I'll send off a few more jpegs, I think the first run of guns will be out in Spring (April or May). Because Omer is not making many of these, (they tie up money abd cost a lot to manufacture when you outsource the barrels,designers,etc considering the small return) and it's more of a prestige thing to want to make something special, I think it's probably good they're only making 200. It threfore will be a gun only for the real fanatic divers who wants one and not for the masses. One things for sure you'll see me at the Hatteras Open this year with my new 130!!!

 

[Murat]

Bravo Mark!!!

 

[shaneshac]

Whats the weight of the 115 gun mark???

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Master America

Hey Shane, you still diving in Gibraltar this time of year?

The 115cm is 4lbs and the 130cm is 4.5lbs, with the 7mm shaft the 115 is 5lbs and the 130 is 5.5lbs with the shaft. An 8mm sharkfin shaft like in the picture makes the gun 6lbs. I'd like to find a good diver who dives regularly and is a member of Deeper Blue to try one of the guns I have for at least a month so they can share their feelings with DB members. Whose close enough and qualified for the job?? hmmm

These are the new parts for this gun, the new line release,heavy duty rubber "comfy-butt" we're going to call it that will fit any T-20 handle, and the lead inserts/float for the ballast copartment in the front of the gun which provides 1/4lb alltogether to fine tune the balance of the gun depending on band power/shaft thickness. All together should be a pretty decent rear handle 2 band gun!

Mark
ps-one small thing someone with a careful eye will notice is the small rubber insert on the top of the trigger sear in the picture. As one would imagine it's to reduce noice as the sear releases the shaft as it hits the top of the trigger housing.