Euro Zone Crisis - Europe/Europa

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro - Europe/Europa

Scenario #1 and #3 look most likely this week (talk on BBC of concern that Greece will default on its loans).

#2 or #4 look like better options - but politically unlikely:

#2 would be hard politically as Germany (and France to a lesser extent) would need to act against its own (short term) interests.

#4 would take organization, agreement & will/drive/leadership - none of which are apparent in the EU currently. It would also need all of the northern countries (Germany, France, etc.) to act against their own(short term) interests - as their export prices would have to rise.

 

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro - Europe/Europa

The Chinese PM said yesterday that China will not bail-out struggling European countries BUT, if they did, "there would be conditions" . Apparently they want the West to stop accusing them of dumping cheap products to eliminate competition (they probably can't avoid it at current exchange rates).

Former Thatcher-era Chancellor, Nigel Lawson, told the BBC (R4, Today Program yesterday) that break up of the Euro-zone has always been inevitable. He urged the patrons to ensure that it is done in an orderly manner. And to the Times:

"The notion that “more Europe” must always be promoted, that there is no acceptable end to the process of integration short of a full-blown United States of Europe, and that the watchword must always be that of “ever closer union” has to be explicitly abandoned.

And this requires not merely a declaration to that effect, but its embodiment in a full-blown constitution that sets out the entrenched and unalterable competences and responsibilities of the member states of the Union — the very reverse of what is contained in the anti-constitutional Lisbon treaty."

- http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/09/05/lawson-dont-waste-the-euro-crisis/

A French guest on the Today program (BBC R4) said that Greece had "been on another planet" for the last (12/15?) years.

There was also talk of the possibility that both Germany & France (and possibly other countries, such as Holland) leaving the euro-zone - but that seems unlikely to me, currently.

Some of the rhetoric last week was that the collapse of the euro-zone would spell the end of the EU & the common market. That seems highly unlikely to me. If anything, it could mark the saving of the EU and the common market. It would also greatly reduce the threat of unpopular Federalization. (Wasn't that what WW1 and WW2 were fought to avoid?).

 

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

BBC News - Central banks act as economy hits 'dangerous new phase'

Who will be left holding the bad debt/bonds?

 

[apneaboy]

Re: Euro - Europe/Europa

(Wasn't that what WW1 and WW2 were fought to avoid?).

I think some important person got shot (1) then a couple of Polish people were beaten up (2)

 

[apneaboy]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

p.s. go fishing

 

[Mr. X]

"The Man Who Sold The World"

Thanks for the therapeutic advice apneaboy - sounds good to me
I see you are a learned historian, so let's not mention the war (I did once but I think I got away with it ).



There was a top story in the Sunday Times this weekend, called "The Man Who Sold the World" about a wacko but successful American investor called Kyle Bass (good fishy name).

The Sunday Times

He supposedly predicted much of recent banking and euro crisis and made a large fortune from it. It appears our governments have done a very poor job - quelle surprise. Apparently he bet against the PIIGS and Switzerland (I thought the latter was a typo at first), essentially "shorting" bonds, using insurance (i.e. he bet against those countries). He now has a new strategy involves betting against France and Japan, but especially France.

When asked what how he'd advise his mother or the reporter to invest now, he recommended gold (pulling an ingot out of his desk draw & slamming it on the table) - not stocks in gold mining companies or paper but real, physical gold (Russian news recently suggest that Korea get its Gold in its own vaults, rather than rely on a promise that it has gold in some foreign bank vault). And firearms (sounds like he may have also bought himself quite a lot of industrial explosives - as I said, wacky).

He also bought $1m of nickels (5 cent pieces), having discovered that each coin currently contains nickel worth 6.5 cents. He showed the reporter pictures his coins on palettes .

 

[apneaboy]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Have you ever considered there is just too many people being greedy for any of this to work long term?

Check this out

http://forums.deeperblue.com/beach-bar/92701-watch-very-good.html

 

[Kars]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

I don't know what the do about this crisis.
To me it seems like a fictional problem.
I looks like it's just about enslaving peoples and nations.
A good looking crises is always useful to get people to run and subject themselves to new (mis)leaders.

I do read their think tanks' works sometimes, such as "The First Global Revolution" - Club of Rome. Some interesting quotes - see p75. And if you dare to take the leap that these people in charge actually make things happen, to be able to make their next set of changes possible, then things start to become logical again.

I just found this documentary explaining how governments are in fact corporations, who own shares in your fortune 500 companies. Another point this brings forth is that 'struggle' for the budget is NOT the complete financial story.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkfMuvVuETQ]The Corporation Nation Master (2010) - Full Length - YouTube[/ame]

I think I feel the most comfortable with going out fishing, because then I got something good to eat, without E numbers and CE brands and paying any government.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[jtkwest]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

there is no way to change any of this. so why worry?
we are just along for the ride, might as well try to enjoy the scenery!
tune in , turn on, and drop out.

ignorance is bliss.

 

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

That's true.

I was watching Russia Today News on freeview at the weekend -- there is quite a lot of anti-American and anti-West rhetoric* but it is interesting to see things from another perspective.

Coincidently I caught their piece by Max Keiser, on Kyle Bass [see my last post above], who they described as "a financial terrorist". Max thinks they need to lock up a lot of bankers (a lot of people all over the world would probably agree with that (and more, decimation perhaps?) but it seems like rather reactionary and self-serving (much like the bankers ). However, he suggested that the US get the same guy who cleaned up the crooked Savings and Loan companies back in the 90s to do it -- and that sounded quite sensible to me (maybe the UK & the EU could bring him in too).

http://maxkeiser.com/?s=Kyle+Bass
http://www.valuewalk.com/videos-with-text-summary/kyle-bass-rips-john-paulson-and-seth-klarman/

Max also pointed out that the Gold markets are being manipulated currently and could so be a dangerous place to invest now. He showed gold prices plateauing and falling, despite the global economic problems apparently worsening. I guess there is always another side to the story . It is clear that Kyle Bass is playing in the Gold markets [see below] - and no doubt spreading propaganda that will boost his investments. Maybe he's getting ready to sell?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...kyle-bass-to-hold-1-billion-in-gold-bars.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/university-of-texas-gold-kyle-bass-2011-4 - Gold & "the negative Japan fund" (sic)

*A lot of their reporters, correspondents & guests were American, British and/or European.


Some good news on the BBC R4 this morning. Ireland (Eire) are meeting their recovery goals - which are apparently less drastic, less sudden and more realistic than those set for Greece, apparently their government overspending was not as great. Apparently Ireland is "about the size of Manchester" - presumably in terms of population.

 

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Uh-oh:

Why the euro bailout is the biggest Ponzi scheme in history
- Apparently by former British Chancellor Norman Lamont, Daily Mail, 12/10/2011

​

 

[trux]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Well, Iceland has shown to the rest of Europe the right way to handle such crisis. Unfortunately you won't hear about their solution in the mass media, because it involves firing corrupt politicians, and criminally persecuting responsible bankers - that's not something the Eurocrats would like to see as a trend in the rest of Europe: Daily Kos: Iceland's On-going Revolution

 

[Kars]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Of cause such a beautiful crises cannot been omitted for further exploitation of the European tax-slave-farm:

TREATY ESTABLISHING THE EUROPEAN STABILITYMECHANISM (ESM)
http://consilium.europa.eu/media/1216793/esm treaty en.pdf

And a little video summarising the ESM:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/user/courtfoolnet#p/u/5/rxMOW94V6xQ]courtfoolnet's Channel - YouTube[/ame]

Love, courage and Water!

Kars

 

[Mr. X]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

That is scary. The EU has exhibited some very illiberal and self-serving behaviour in the UK recently. Perhaps its time has passed?

 

[Kars]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

That's how a predators operate, first slowly surround the herd, then sneak up to them, then drive them into a corner, and then attack and consume

You see that's why I wish everyone:

Love, Courage and Water,

Things I need, and many others here need

Kars

 

[omega3]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Germany.....
I'm not feeling any love for the Germans in general ....

 

[Kars]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Germany.....
I'm not feeling any love for the Germans in general ....

Though your feelings are likely to be genuine, I can ask you to please research your sources for your sentiments?

Did you consider the whole concept of countries and therefore 'Germany' is totally fictional?

 

[trux]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

I guess Omega3 did not mean he was xenofobe, he probably just watched too many US war movies showing Germans in well known clichés. I think it is useless to start a flame war over it here.

 

[omega3]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

just watched 1/2 of Brest fortress... undubbed and not subtitled...
that and I dont speak Russian! Going to watch the rest after tea. Great film so far.

All that aside and the hypothetical no countries/borders invite nice as it sounds fantasy realm etc. (too much Zeitgeist by the sound of it)it would appear to me this is another land grab by Germany! Differing only by method/ reason when say compared to UK's current ongoing land grab in Libya! Or the US in ...

Resources are precious but gimme a break ...holiday islands. Is this now top of the wish/must have list for current powerful nations and to heck with the consequences?

To Kars, you should be careful when asking someone to do research.... if you dont know what they will find or know, feel already and from a platform of sanctimony.

All I am saying and not looking for a bun fight is Im not feeling any love for the Germans in general....ie, i am not seeing any "
go Germany "etc. support from where I am in relation to the topic of this thread/current ongoings in Europe. Take a look at any and I mean any current map of Europe... you will find Germany ... you know, bordered by Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, France ...Etc Etc Take a look if you dont believe me . My sources are good this time so whatever you mean by that statement I dont know. It could only be a monetary thing otherwise so care to expand/explain that stelar statement?

Trux.... thanks!And no there is no need for flaming here etc.... however.... you like Kars are very quick to assume/guess/instruct and base your opinions, all without a single question or call for explanation. That is a one way street and on a forum. No communication. Is it a wonder then that there is trouble in the EU at the top when the bottom is no different..... hmmmm

It seems nobody is asking questions anymore. It is believed how we now access information is the cause which in turn gives rise to feeling knowledgeable dare i say it superior! This problem has been recently identified with the growing population that can access and give information in a quiz like fashion and a sharp decline in specialist knowledge professionals.... the worry is there is not enough quiz game shows for this growing section of the poulation to be able to feed itself.

My thumbs hurt!

Im wagging myfinger at both of you in a school ma'am fashion

Now, back to decompressing!

 

[Kars]

Re: Euro crisis - Europe/Europa

Thanks Omega for response.
I'm not sure I understand everything as you meant it, but will try to. No I'm not of the Zeitgeist religion. The only thing I would like to say all is that individuals of a designated group very often do not correspond to the stigma a group has. And the groups' leaders their actions can be even more remote.

To use another example, I don't blame Americans individually for waging war in many countries, having troops in about 150 countries.

I thank you for your educational advices.

LOL I'm just noticing a new angle your comments, maybe your Germany reply was in relation to the predator line in my post above? All right well I think that's a good founded remark. As the public history shows that to be the case. Though Caroll Quickly (Bill Clinton's mentor, historian for the Council of Foreign Relations) in his book "Tragedy and Hope" and "Anglo-an American Empire" has a rather different view on the worlds history and HOW things went as they did, and what the reasons for them where.

It starts to become fascinating how somehow the world is moving to these 3 blocks George Orwell (Eric Blair) was describing. I thought 1984 was met as a warning not a guide.