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Euro Zone Crisis - Europe/Europa

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

How should the Euro crisis be fixed?

  • Germany should leave Euro (economy too much stronger than rest)

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Greece should leave Euro (economy too much weaker than rest)

    Votes: 12 24.5%

  • PIIGs should leave Euro (economy too much weaker than rest)

    Votes: 2 4.1%

  • Split Euro into 2 currencies: North/strong, South/weak

    Votes: 3 6.1%

  • UK should leave Europe (tax/immigration/crime/education/health/benefits/pension burden)

    Votes: 11 22.4%

  • Don't know/Don't care. Would rather go fishing.

    Votes: 28 57.1%
  • Total voters
    49
omega3 said:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Burke
...
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Well said. BobDonny's comment has been playing on my mind. I understand where he (and at least one other poster) is coming from, e.g. "what's the use of worrying, it never was worthwhile..." / "Don't sweat the small stuff. It's all small stuff"/nothing we say or do can change it, etc.. I think it was kindly meant, and it is rather reassuring. But it strikes me that this is also the same head-in-the-sand attitude that allowed this situation to develop in the first place, and then further let it become huge and massively expensive. Ignoring the problems worked ok for about 10 years - but the chickens are finally coming home to roost. Where this leads, nobody knows for sure but pain is assured.


My other fear is that voters and politicians will learn nothing from this expensive and wasteful situation.

Spaghetti, glad to hear that you believe recent changes are good for Italy (and therefore France - and therefore Britain - and Europe). I just looked up Italy's "PM designate": [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Monti"]Mario Monti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
As a "Senator for Life" I was concerned to see any politician give life tenure but then realized that is exactly what Britain's House of Lords does . Having watched a House of Lords debate recently, I was impressed. They were really trying to sort things out for the good of the country, rather than wasting energy bickering along party lines. They were mature, knowledgeable and cooperative. (Although on other occasions they have been sleeping ).
 
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While I agree with much of this post, I'm not so keen on this part of it. Raising taxes for the EU (or almost any government) is like giving Heroin to a dangerous junkie. Also, it would likely adversely affect/destroy one of Britain's few remaining industries (we desperately need to "re-balance" our economy). Raising taxes generally reduces growth - and Europe has very little growth currently and very little is predicted for the foreseeable future.

Taxing is punitive - it punishes. If you want to punish bankers, fine, tax their excessive benefits, perks and bonuses -- don't penalize our poor beleaguered pensions, which are already being constantly raided by our Governments/politicians (e.g. Gordon Brown), the pension fund managers (bankers) and stockbrokers and "hedge fund" managers, etc.. Nor the small investors and account holders. And/or tax trading in complex derivatives and devices, and put in safeguards, that might be costly for the banks but necessary.

Our politicians (of all the main parties) are very, very closely tied into the banks though .
 
B'Liar was on the Politics Show, with Andrew "Super-Injunction" Marr (a right pair). His advice was "focus on the euro" and forget everything else for now. But surely, that's exactly what caused the current crisis?!:duh

The highlight of the (Remembrance Day) show: the tenor Alfie Boe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15711697

For those that don't have access to iPlayer, something similar from Youtube:
 
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Italy's cost of borrowing has risen again to the 7% danger level, putting the new PM Mario Monti under pressure as he tries to form a government. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15731606
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The head of the International Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, has warned that the global economy is at risk of being plunged into a "lost decade". - BBC News - IMF chief warns of a 'lost decade' for global economy
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Well, they say it is always darkest before the dawn.
 
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I'm starting to worry about Europe:

It was announced to day that Italy has formed a government entirely of unelected technocrats. They reckon it will work better (no kidding!:duh). Although initial improvements in lending rates to Italy were lost as "the markets moved on from that".

I was a little alarmed to hear German PM Angela Merkel say that she was prepared to give up German sovereignty to prop up euro-zone. It came over more as "you should give up sovereignty, then we'll run all your silly little badly run countries for you". Do they (still) feel the need to run everything?:hmm

Merkel Says Germany Ready to Cede Some Sovereignty for Euro - Businessweek

There was also a couple of murmurs today that France (the euro-zone's second largest economy) might soon join the PIIGS (anybody have a good acronym for that? IFPIGS?)
 
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Let's engage in some crackpottery, the new fragile black art form made out of drugs and colourful information.

"No worries Mr X, everything is planned for and scripted. Your old programming of nationhood, democracy is becoming apparent. To receive your heads-up you can read the small book of The Club of Rome - you know the ones that started and shaped the EU program - their book "The First Global Revolution". Thankfully The children have and are learning to have the EU and democracy at the right place in their hearts, instilled a blind trust or at least the inevitability to accept this state with many colours slowly being replaced by the omnipresent blue and 12 five pointed stars, just like the United States of America's early flag. Perhaps the America North-South war is a nice scenario to cement the idea of a central EU bureaucracy dominating the entire region? I can see the (s)election of the newly elevated elites in 2025 belonging to the EU's two politcal parties, symbolised by euhm say a cow and a pig? We as sheeple should be able to identity with one of these taxfarm animals. That may keep the traders at the stock markets and bull markets happy. If only there was one / UN saviour."

Just for your enjoyment:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIm97cfomv4]PINK FLOYD - Pigs (Three Different Ones) lyrics - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Sadly, I know what you mean. The EU has started "fining"/reducing grants to various bodies in the UK that do not fly the alien blue euro flag, as they despicably require (it would be better if they tattooed it on the foreheads of the bureaucrats that came up with and enforce this requirement). We're not really into flags in Britain though, I guess we've learnt to be rather suspicious of them and their purposes - the American's love theirs though but theirs represents Liberty & Democracy - the Eu flag represents neither.


Listen to a German being interviewed on the BBC last night. Sounds like they don't want to print money (they'll have to eventually though - if the euro-zone is to survive at all). Quite reasonably, the Germans want the troubled governments to their finances sorted out. They'll all have to give ground though. The IFPIGS will make some improvements and concessions and German will then have to allow the European Central Bank to print money. The subsequent drop in value of the euro shouldn't be a such a big deal - the dollar & pound have already taken this path and it will make cheap Chinese imports a little less attractive and European exports more attractive.
 
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Inflation or "quantitative easing" will make bank accounts and pensions look also a bit less attractive. One can equate inflation to robbery. Thankfully nobody cares enough about their future. So in trade for some emotional scaremongering words the lucky[lucifer] few can have the fruits of the many in perpetuity.

It's a sad state humanity is in.

I think we're in for some very painful lessons, fending of the brainwashed living dead who for a meal and a meddle happily unload their frustrations onto whomever their owners point to. Jep these fantastic zombie movies are becoming a reality. I agree with the bible "let the [spiritually]dead bury the dead".

On a personal note I must say I have a lot of trouble existing among the dead and the wilfully ignorant. I do not like the dictatorship of the "majority". And mostly I hate the gun that most people seem happy to point around to make somebody else do something against their will. Where is the honour in that?
 
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Just some more doom and gloom of the Soviet European Union:

[ame]http://youtu.be/DzHrNMOKLrA[/ame]
 
Kars, you are right about inflation. It has long been one of the British Government's main means of stealing the wealth (although it has long dug deep into the pockets of its subjects through direct, indirect and, more recently, stealth taxes). When I first lived in the USA, gas (petrol) was $1.10 at the local gas station. When I left 9 years later, it was $1.10! It had been up and down a little in between times but the day I left, it was exactly the same as the day I arrived. That would never happen in the UK.

The woman above just said "they want their money properly spent" -- I would say most people would prefer to spend their money themselves. The EU and governments are so inefficient/expensive/corrupt/badly run.

Did you know that Lucifer means "bringer of light" - odd eh.

Related video to the one above (at least one MEP is trying to earn their generous benefits package - pretty funny, if it were not true):

 
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Mr. X said:
The woman above just said "they want their money properly spent" -- I would say most people would prefer to spend their money themselves. The EU and governments are so inefficient/expensive/corrupt/badly run.
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I agree, taxation works like a huge break on small business. Together with labour intensive red tape it also prevents people from starting up a successful small business. And when people are forced to remain an employee depression and low productivity sets in.
I hope you agree that the freedoms we have are allowed because 'the establishment' had developed the technology to remain in the driver seat while enjoying the huge jumps in productivity of people who thought they were free.

Mr. X said:
Did you know that Lucifer means "bringer of light" - odd eh.
Click to expand...

Of cause, the fallen angel is happy to bring some light to his employees - Light being equalled to wisdom.

I mostly like Nigel's and UKIP work very much.

I also like the solid work of Brian Gerrish, who 's a former naval officer who ran into the secretive 'Common Purpose' group finding out how this entity seeks to have a monopolistic influence on decision making by supplying the people with their leaders, meaning CP followers.
Since this Brian has deepened his research and being a man educated in war he applies clear language and strategies.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qw-Zm2-ql4]Manipulation Of Your Mind by Government Agenda - Brian Gerrish.flv - YouTube[/ame]


Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
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Today Pres. Sarkozy announced new measures to help stem the collapse of the Euro-zone.

Let's hope he's "starting with the man in the mirror":
Nicolas Sarkozy orders Air Sarko One plane
Sarkozy Spent $410 Million Overhauling Air France One



I see he is having second thoughts about [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement"]Schengen Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] now that he is up for re-election next year and France is getting a lot of immigration (esp. from Africa & in particular Tunisia at the moment, much of it via Italy). Gosh, you'd think this possibility might have occurred to him before:duh. Dumf
 
SUDDENLY, nothing happened...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9vAVSCAwH4]The Adventures of Ralph Melish - YouTube[/ame]
 
Nothing happened? ? ?

De-rating of nations,
Nations into more debt.
Worsening public services.
More people out of work.
More tax without any beneficial return.
More bureaucracy, even lesser personal freedom.
Less worth of people's life savings. (theft through inflation)
More people freeze to death because they cannot afford the fuel. (25.000! in Britain last year!)
Unelected technocrats are imposed on the people of Italy and Greece, BY WHO? - who's next? (the veil of democracy is being lifted)

New financial layer of dictatorial control imposed on the EU member states:
TREATY ESTABLISHING THE EUROPEAN STABILITY MECHANISM (ESM):
http://consilium.europa.eu/media/1216793/esm%20treaty%20en.pdf

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMOW94V6xQ]ESM_the_new_European_dictator.avi - YouTube[/ame]


And Nothing happened? Well I do hope something will happen, like people develop some heart or least help the ones showing courage the whistle-blowers.
 
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The bad news with some tasty humour:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sugnMztbVPs]IMF = INTERNATIONAL MAFIA FUKS - YouTube[/ame]
 


There was an interesting article in the Daily Mail, titled "It's not us they hate in Europe". Part of it suggests that the Greeks might feel disinclined to repay any loans from Germany, on the basis that Germany owes them (at least) £60billion, due to a single loan:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ne-crisis-Its-France-Germany-hate-Europe.html

The article is much broader in scope though, an interesting read but not a happy one .
 
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No the Brits gotta get out. Don't go in search of an excuse to stay in and mess up things: it's the BRITS, not the PIIGS, who must get out of the EU immediately.
Go away, trolls, go away. We don't want you. Get out.
 
People, no panic, instead of us and our unborn children being sold into slavery, we just sell our politicians into slavery to these naive or nefarious creditors.
When all debts are exchanged in these flesh forms, we can all enjoy a few nights of highly entertaining gladiator fights in stadiums World Wide. The winners after this exhausting international league can enjoy their final days at a remote island guarded by only a small contingent of guards, a much more affordable solution compared to arming the police and army for Armageddon like these same politicians cry for every time.
 
German politicians have demonstrated, the last couple of years, a "morality" based approach in order to solve an economic crisis situation. No wonder that they have failed.... If greeks had to pay for living many years based on loans, why the same had to be true for other countries (Spain-Portugal-Italy-France) who had problems only to finance their debts, not in the real economy?
PS The greek loan, during german occupation is real. However, greek politicians never asked this money back, because many of them were connected with nazis or wanted to take something back during the 50s (greek workers accepted in booming german post war economy)
 
THEN SUDDENLY...nothing happened. Again.

With Greece effectively voting to stay in the EU we are back where this all started. (Just as we would be if the vote had been inconclusive, the next most likely outcome.)

There seems like a distinct lack of leadership in the Euro-zone. I guess nobody really knows what to do to fix this and nobody feels directly responsible for sorting it out - although Angela Merkel is increasingly looking like the lady with the fat cheque book.

spaghetti said:
No the Brits gotta get out. Don't go in search of an excuse to stay in and mess up things: it's the BRITS, not the PIIGS, who must get out of the EU immediately.
Go away, trolls, go away. We don't want you. Get out.
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Spaghetti, you may be right - but we must remain friends .
 
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