Exhale dry static

[Chad StClair]

How long can you hold your breath on a full exhale dry??? Is this good training and what kind of progression is there?? Is it like simulating depth just minus the ppo2 so maybe blackouts are more likely??

I have been doing them just to mess with it and can only hold for like 30 sec and feel like my lungs might implode!!

Thanks Chad

 

[MarcinB]

Exhale statics are a nightmare at the beginning but you can get used to them quite quickly. This kind of training is a good way to increase tolerance to hypoxia, and it probably also adapts lungs to depth. In my opinion exhale statics should be done with a mild hyperventilation, otherwise they will not last long enough to induce sufficient hypoxia. It is, however, very important not to hiperventilate too much because the risk of blackout is very high here.
At the beginning I was able to hold my breath on empty lungs for 2-2.5min. (after mild hyperventilation) but after just few sessions I reached 3min. My PB is currently 4:10 and average times of the first and last STA in the session are ~2:20 and ~3:40, respectively. In my case 2 months of regular empty lung training (3 times per week, 6 near maximal breath holds per session) significantly decreased the threshold oxygen saturation below which I start to feel signs of hypoxia (by 5-10%, based on readings of a professional pulse oximeter).

 

[Chad StClair]

Are you doing a full exhale?? How about contractions are they ok to have or should you be careful to not have to big of ones?? Do you ever mix in reverse packs I know that makes it more dangerous for getting a squeeze or is that not necessary???

Thanks Chad

 

[MarcinB]

I do full exhale, no reverse packs. Contractions are very strong close to the end of the static but I never had any problems with that. A friend of mine does long exhale statics with reverse packs and he never had a squeeze either. Nevertheless, taking it easy at the beginning is definitely a good idea. Try 90% exhale first and don't get into strong contractions.

 

[cdavis]

I do dry full exhales with reverse packing till no more air comes out,for depth training plus it seems to help exercise my blood shift as well. My holds are nowhere near as long as Marcin's. You can squeeze yourself doing this, so be very careful and go slow if you try it. With careful training, the lungs tolerance for negative pressure improves considerably, making me much more resistant to squeeze. It also reduces my tendency towards pressure contractions.

You may get two kinds of contractions, co2 contractions that build slowly and which I've never had squeeze problems with, and, maybe, pressure contractions, which , for me, are extremely strong and seem to come out of nowhere on a deep exhale or a deep dive. On dives close to my equalization limit, pressure contractions will(and have) resulted in a squeeze, although they never have dry.

 

[Chad StClair]

Is everyone a beast like you or did you start as a mortal man?? 4 min on an exhale awesome!!!
Yea my pb is 4:05 full inhale and I am in great shape. Is there more a natural inclination for some to be able to just be better or do most people start fairly low times and struggle than get better holds after relaxing more and having better technique??

 

[Chad StClair]

The pressure contraction is that the "lying bastard" the point where you actually hit residual volume??? Will you continually get pressure contractions till your lungs inflate again??

 

[MarcinB]

Chad, I'm still a mortal man. I'm rather average as far as my breath hold ability is concerned. I know a guy who did 200m DYN after just 3 months of training. My PB is 181m and it took me 4 years to get to this level. Some people definitely have a natural inclination for freediving and they quickly achieve great results. Others have to train for many years to get to the same level. There are large differences in the strength of the diving response, lung volume, and basal oxygen consumption between individuals. These factors make a huge difference. Some lucky bastards simply have good genes

CDavis, I wonder what exactly pressure contractions are. I often get them after maximal reverse packing. To me they are more like powerful contractions of abdominal muscles rather than diaphragm. What's your opinion?

 

[cdavis]

They appear to be the bodies reaction to extreme compression of the chest. I agree that they involve more and different muscles than a normal contraction, not sure exactly what all. My first were on my first attempts at deeper diving. Somewhere around 80 ft full lung, my chest went nuts, crazy strong heave, I had do idea what was happening. After my body figured out that chest compression was ok, pressure contractions got less and less, pretty much gone now.

Pressure contractions are talked about so little, that I wonder whether all divers get them.

Marcin, would you define "mild hyperventilation"?

Chad, when I get a pressure contraction, dive is over, I immediately either come up a lot or inhale. Sometimes dry, I can feel just the start of a pressure contraction and can suppress it, not always.

 

[MarcinB]

In my case it's 20 breaths over 90s, moderate inhale (chest only, diaphragm relaxed) and passive exhale.

Fortunately, I never had pressure contractions during diving. I also feel them coming and I'm able to make them go away with conscious relaxation of the chest.

 

[cdavis]

Marcin, can you feel blood shift during your exhale holds? If so, how much time before you can feel it. Is that time affected by hyperventation? How strong relative to what you feel during real diving?

 

[MarcinB]

I have never felt blood shift while diving. I think I feel it sometimes during dry breath holds but I can't tell for sure. I know some people can tell exactly when it happens but I'm not one of them.

 

[Kray]

Hyperventilation is the key. Empty lung without it is difficult. I do empty lung hold for pleasure, stopping before contraction. After a few rounds I will get to the point where contractions start to happen at 3 mins mark. They are stronger than my taste to hold for longer than 30 secs. I think it may help lowering the threshold of samba/BO SpO2

 

[onefasteuro]

be quite careful of doing reverse packing and getting contractions on long breath holds... good way of getting squeezed.

 

[MarcinB]

There is a risk for sure. However, I wonder whether it's smaller compared to deep diving? I never got squeezed during full exhale breath hold (no reverse packing though), and In my case the struggle phase usually lasts ~1,5min with extremely strong contractions close to the end of sta. Has anybody experienced squeeze during dry empty lung breath hold?

 

[cdavis]

I have been mildly squeezed doing a empty lung/reverse pack dry holds. I've been squeezed much worse in "deep" diving. I'd say the risk of squeeze, especially a severe squeeze, is much less doing dry exhales/reverse packs than diving deep. Its not nearly zero though and, if agressively approached by someone who has never done much exhale/reverse pack, I think it would be quite possible to produce a fairly significant squeeze.

 

[Kray]

I think to avoid squeeze one should do a lot of lung exercises while packing / reverse packing. The key is little by little. Together with a good amount of exhale dive. Then the feeling of being compressed by depth is a little bit above doing reverse packing until none. 4 of 5 Squeezed friends of mine are very fit, surfer body, and they all smoke. I do extreme exhale than most people, reverse pack at depth, experience strong contraction a few times, never get close to squeeze, well not yet. I believe what is worse than reverse packing, if done correctly of course, is the force equalization and smoking.

 

[james_spearo]

This is great stuff, I am personally experimenting with exhale dry dynamic holds on a stationary bike. I try to use similar cadence and power output as finning up from depth. I do not do any hyperventilation as spoken about, I am using a O2 pulse oximeter to monitor O2 and pulse, and seeing some interesting things.

My dive reflex comes on strong after 20 seconds, my heart rate will drop from 110bpm (I cycle during the breathing phase too) to 40bpm, and my O2 levels will drop to aproximatly 70% during the hold, around the 35-40sec mark is all I can manage so far, and then I get a sudden drop in O2 to sometimes 50% spO2 upon resuming breathing. Post apnea hypoxia? I do feel a little dizzy when it drops to 50% but have only seen it drop that low a few times, and I'm fine after the second big breath in.

I'm going to continue with a progressive overload type approach, going to add a few seconds to the hold phase each week. I feel like if I can get these to about 1:30-2:00 and keep my O2 levels in the safe zone >50% I'll be the most dive fit I've ever been

 

[Chad StClair]

I think that the dive reflex is what I feel come on like a ton of bricks at about 20-30 as well especially when I am swimming feels like all the blood leaves my legs and I get a head rush! I have been training exhale and co2 one breath dynamic for a 2 months now and at first it was terrible for both I felt like on exhale I couldn't hold at all and c02 was just miserable but I was focused on my time and what I thought I should be able to do then a month ago I stopped timing my self and just started focusing on relaxing and counting contractions. After letting go of the time and focusing on relaxing I am able to do forced exhales and equalize on the bottom of my pool where before I would block the equalization with my tongue. Also I can comfortably hang on the bottom with full exhale no clue on how long but it's not stressful and hard anymore!! And after getting rid of the watch my co2 has become much better I was timing it before and struggling with contractions the whole time now I started with 5 contractions then come up for one breath 7 reps now I can easily do 10 contractions and they come super gently and at fist and just get annoying towards the end of the holds!!

I tried the hyperventilating before some dry exhales and that did nothing for me just made it easier till the contractions came then the contractions where terrible!!

For me the biggest thing I suppose is just like everyone has said at some point is relax and train a lot with your buddy because you can talk about contractions and co2 and exhales till you are blue in the face but the only time it helps is to go get blue in the face diving lol.

Thanks for the replies

Chad StClair

 

[Chad StClair]

James spearo- what kind of exhale are you doing full exhale? Or passive? I have been wanting to do full exhale dry workouts to start doing some 02 tolerance work at first for me the exhale statics are to get used to the compression now I think I can hold long enough to start working 02 lol do your legs feel pretty heavy after your heart rate drops??