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Extreme Dolfinism
- Thread starterREVAN
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Thanks, I'm likely to keep finding stuff for a while. Learning to use the x18 is an extremely weird experience. You go along for a while learning the fin, slightly disappointed because you are not instantly super diver. Then, all of a sudden the fin allows you to do something you did not think was even possible, much less have any expectation of doing it. I took it into the surf yesterday, crappy sloppy chop, but quickly discovered that I was getting around faster on the surface than the surfers when we were all stroking up current, and wasn't even getting tired. If somebody had told me that was possible, I would have wondered what they had been smoking.
Connor
Connor
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hey Connor,
i'm really happy reading about your experiences with the fin and am of course very curious to see if it can be succesfully used subsurfing. keep us posted !
will be ordering one soon so i'm all for hearing what people are experiencing with this magical new "tail".
rock on...
i'm really happy reading about your experiences with the fin and am of course very curious to see if it can be succesfully used subsurfing. keep us posted !
will be ordering one soon so i'm all for hearing what people are experiencing with this magical new "tail".
rock on...
The speed and especially the acceleration of the fin should make is fantastic for subsurfing. However, one characteristic might be a problem. The fin strongly resists rotation. Turn the blade so it is rotating on its end, and it spins instantly, but try rotating the blade with it flat to the direction of rotation and its like the proverbial immovable object. Get tossed around in the turbulence of a breaking wave and you might find it putting way too much strain on your ankles or knees. That's a guess, but be watchful. Laminar and Fondueset both commented on the same thing when they tried the Lunacet.
Connor
Connor
Finally got a chance to get in the 4 meter deep end of the pool and stumbled into another unexpected quality of the x18; it surface dives better than anything else I've ever used. The difference is large enough to be instantly obvious on the first dive. Four meters is not deep enough for an accurate test, but a reasonable guesstimate is around 20 % better than bifins, maybe more. That has major ramifications for anyone concerned about minimizing C02 production at the start of the dive.
I not sure yet exactly why it does so well, but it seems related to the small surface area and minimal drag of the fin. It takes substantially less effort and is faster to get your legs out of the water and vertical at the start of the dive. That allows more of the effort to be directed downward not horizontally, a better start. Once the fin enters the water, its low drag means it carries the momentum farther. Very noticeable.
Turns are still a work in progress; the motions needed to do some kinds of quick turns are tricky and hard for me to learn, especially since I'm making a lot of this up as I go along. However, I'm beginning to suspect that the fin can be very very maneuverable.
Getting into deeper water where I had several lanes wide to play in was a good preview of how much fun this fin is going to be in open water.
Extra glide is characteristic of this fin and really is kind of odd. I'm constantly doing a little double take at how much farther I move with no kick. How to use that in diving? Gotta be useful, but exactly how? I'm going to be changing my automatic reactions, but don't know exactly where this will end up.
Connor
I not sure yet exactly why it does so well, but it seems related to the small surface area and minimal drag of the fin. It takes substantially less effort and is faster to get your legs out of the water and vertical at the start of the dive. That allows more of the effort to be directed downward not horizontally, a better start. Once the fin enters the water, its low drag means it carries the momentum farther. Very noticeable.
Turns are still a work in progress; the motions needed to do some kinds of quick turns are tricky and hard for me to learn, especially since I'm making a lot of this up as I go along. However, I'm beginning to suspect that the fin can be very very maneuverable.
Getting into deeper water where I had several lanes wide to play in was a good preview of how much fun this fin is going to be in open water.
Extra glide is characteristic of this fin and really is kind of odd. I'm constantly doing a little double take at how much farther I move with no kick. How to use that in diving? Gotta be useful, but exactly how? I'm going to be changing my automatic reactions, but don't know exactly where this will end up.
Connor
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Hi,
Since the differences are so profound and numerous, I got the sensation that we should use the word foil or hydrofoil instead of fin or monofin.
I think it's important we define and name things clearly and equivocally, what do you people think?
Another great report Connor! Maybe you can combine those reports for a review on the DB main page? Or even do a Youtube review?
Since the differences are so profound and numerous, I got the sensation that we should use the word foil or hydrofoil instead of fin or monofin.
I think it's important we define and name things clearly and equivocally, what do you people think?
Another great report Connor! Maybe you can combine those reports for a review on the DB main page? Or even do a Youtube review?
I like monofoil, but a quick search shows it a registered trademark of Coeus Technology. I think it is some kind of anti-microbial coating. We could still use it as a word, but there could be some cross-talk in search engine results.
We could just start using dolfin as a descriptive word for the architecture. It originates from "Dynamic Oscillating Lateral Fin" which was meant to describe the laterally oriented hydrofoil coupled to the dynamically regulated angular control of the fin's suspension system.
I wouldn't think the trademark is a massive issue if you wanted to use the term - when I googled it a site related to sailing came up anyway but I guess using a term that hasn't been used before would be better.
Talking about a monofoil - do you think it would be possible to have bi-foils? ;-)
I'm sorry Ron, I think DOLfin is a great name for maker's model, but not for a generic term.
The generic terms we have for for different 'fins' we have now are:
stereo fins / bi-fins, (generic)
training fins,
duck feet,
long fins,
open heel fins,
closed heel fins,
monofin (generic)
classic monofin (flat footpockets)
Flyer monofin (single footpocket mold+ wings)
Hyper monofin (two footpockets with big angle and set further back from the blade)
Hydro foil,
I think the Hydrofoil fin is more self explanatory and generic, therefore I prefer it.
<< I expect when Laminar post his review other manufacturers may attempt to produce their own hydrofoil design >>
What do I want to know about for the review?
Let's see..
1) For sure how it moves viewed from the side in comparison to today's high end model Hyperfin in a video. <Maybe include a shot of a classic fin, for fun>
2) How the fin performs when deep diving and being very negatively buoyant.
3) Can the foil sustain pool abuse? (traditional monofin flip turns, twists, banging it into the wall, pushing of the bottom, would share it to a beginner?)
4) Is it safe to use with other people close by?
5) How do the shoes hold out in the sea?
6) How long is the learning curve? - is it good for total beginners?
7) what blade sizes do you recommend for who? Who not?
8) Your Speed record, distance record. vs the Hyperfin's.
9) The adjust-ability and it's effect.
10) Comparison chart of characteristics vs Hyperfin, vs Classic.
This piece could have a nice history lesson, comparing the Classic, Hyperfin and Hydrofoil. Is it the true next generation in propulsion?
The generic terms we have for for different 'fins' we have now are:
stereo fins / bi-fins, (generic)
training fins,
duck feet,
long fins,
open heel fins,
closed heel fins,
monofin (generic)
classic monofin (flat footpockets)
Flyer monofin (single footpocket mold+ wings)
Hyper monofin (two footpockets with big angle and set further back from the blade)
Hydro foil,
I think the Hydrofoil fin is more self explanatory and generic, therefore I prefer it.
<< I expect when Laminar post his review other manufacturers may attempt to produce their own hydrofoil design >>
What do I want to know about for the review?
Let's see..
1) For sure how it moves viewed from the side in comparison to today's high end model Hyperfin in a video. <Maybe include a shot of a classic fin, for fun>
2) How the fin performs when deep diving and being very negatively buoyant.
3) Can the foil sustain pool abuse? (traditional monofin flip turns, twists, banging it into the wall, pushing of the bottom, would share it to a beginner?)
4) Is it safe to use with other people close by?
5) How do the shoes hold out in the sea?
6) How long is the learning curve? - is it good for total beginners?
7) what blade sizes do you recommend for who? Who not?
8) Your Speed record, distance record. vs the Hyperfin's.
9) The adjust-ability and it's effect.
10) Comparison chart of characteristics vs Hyperfin, vs Classic.
This piece could have a nice history lesson, comparing the Classic, Hyperfin and Hydrofoil. Is it the true next generation in propulsion?
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Nice one Ron 
I guess we already have 'Baco' and 'Stanly knife', so why not the Ronfin? - nah.. it is not a fin, it's better, it's a foil. That's for me another reason not to use the word fin in it.
If I recall correctly others have also used the hydrofoil principle as part of their propulsion device, such as the Aqueon (Ivo's nice website: APNEA.cz - Collection of Weird Fins)
In honour of the creator we could call it Godfin too
I guess we already have 'Baco' and 'Stanly knife', so why not the Ronfin? - nah.. it is not a fin, it's better, it's a foil. That's for me another reason not to use the word fin in it.
If I recall correctly others have also used the hydrofoil principle as part of their propulsion device, such as the Aqueon (Ivo's nice website: APNEA.cz - Collection of Weird Fins)
In honour of the creator we could call it Godfin too
The Godfin. Now there is a truly and wonderfully arrogant name. Love it! I come from a culture that raised arrogance to an art form and recognize a name's perfection when I see it.
In seriousness, monofoil seems best to me as a description of a class. Its a monofin, uses a foil. good description.
Also, just barely possible that somebody will figure out how to do a foil bifin, so hydofoil or similar would cover both and not be sufficiently definitive.
Connor
In seriousness, monofoil seems best to me as a description of a class. Its a monofin, uses a foil. good description.
Also, just barely possible that somebody will figure out how to do a foil bifin, so hydofoil or similar would cover both and not be sufficiently definitive.
Connor