Extreme Dolfinism

It is. Don't know if you read my Gar Encounter piece - but it took place a few days ago and right out there. Just a couple hundred yards right where the picture is looking is an abrupt dropoff. Goes from 30 to 128 feet fairly quickly. The flat area between is populated with Carp and Freshwater Drum right now - the dropoff is a kind of Bowl and now there are Salmon and Gizzard Shad orbiting around in there in schools.

Mukiker,

I'm enjoying reading about your experiments with the configuation of the X-20. But I wonder if the focus at this stage should be more on your choice of swimming style, first?

What strikes me most about your style is that while it might *feel* good, you are creating a lot of work for yourself because you are interrupting your momentum with the arm stroke and the deep undulations. Every time you slow down to do the arm stroke and the bigger undulation (which does feel nice, I know), I believe you are slowing down dramatically. This means you'll have to start again (acceleration). Not only is this slower but it is more work.

I'd look for a consistent tempo to maintain momentum so you don't have to waste effort with deceleration and acceleration.

A single arm fly stroke depends very much on body undulation from the core/chest/hips and I don't think that's the best use of the X-20 on the surface because the fin is so far away from your feet, relative to short fins (for fly training) and no fins (butterfly) and offers a significant amount of resistance perpendicular to the surface of the blade (although not nearly as much as a monofin). But relative to single arm without fins, it is too much.

Even doing single arm with a medium stiffness monofin is hard work because the blade isn't really available for forward propulsion with the single arm technique. I'd be faster with short fins than with a monofin.

What I've found works best for flat surface swimming for the X-20 is more what cdavis describes: a consistent relatively high tempo leg kicking action with some compact core undulation (but not to the extent that you're doing it). I keep my head still (no up and down movement) and generate the undulation below my clavicle / mid-back.

Think of kicking 2x/second or at the lowest freq 1.5x/second. That high tempo then requires a shallower undulation and kicking motion, otherwise, it's too tiring (too much resistance).

But with that technique I can maintain 2.5-3.5km/hour, depending on the surface conditions. I can also go quite fast with my arms by my sides, which, while less streamlined, makes it easier to stay relaxed and engage the lower body muscles for the kicking style so I find it is my preference for long swims.

For your goal of long surface swims, especially if you like the long undulatory style, why not try swimming on your side with one arm extended? This works quite well with the X-20 or a monofin and you can see the scenery on each breath, no need to lift your head. You can tilt forward to sight ahead and do body rolls as Ron does to check for boats. But it more compatible with the style you currently have, I think.

For me the most important factor in swimming with a fin or X-20 is buoyancy. The wetsuit you wear (if you wear one) has a huge impact on the type of stroke that will work and which muscles you will end up using. The higher the buoyancy the less drag, but I'd say the more awkward the finning technique, especially on your stomach. Do you use a suit?

One reason why I favour my two main options for surface swimming:

* shark swimming (on your side): the movement is lateral, not fighting gravity at all, so less work, slow or fast tempos work fine, suit buoyancy even less important (although a 7mm is a bit much). The X-20 is negatively buoyant so it works fine with this style, even if part of the fin sticks out of the water.

* compact undulation face down: less work for the core muscles, less resistance, less work against gravity (back muscles and hamstrings), less drag from big amplitude, less drag if you're wearing a thick suit. Coordination and technique is a bit more important with this style. With arms by your sides, you can relax your arms, chest, and upper back shoulders almost completely, which I think allows for longer swims and saves your arms in case of leg cramps or the need for a quick sprint.

A big undulatory technique also suffers greatly in chop and current.

As Kars suggests, using a flutter board or some kind of slightly buoyant device for streamlining is an excellent method as well. Your legs will be slightly lower in the water which makes kicking/stroking easier for both upstroke and downstroke. I use a lifeguard rescue can (Hard plastic) with fins in this way for teaching in open water swim classes a Sea Hiker and the speed difference in significant. But any streamlined/torpedo shape is good.

I'd like to design a torpedo container that is as wide as my shoulders and as long as my body, is only slightly positive in buoyancy so most of it is underwater and can be either towed or pushed depending on how you like to swim. The advantage in streamlining would be huge plus you have ampled storage for sea hiking over long distances. Perhaps it would be a liability in shore conditions (surf, current) but for covering 20km in a day it would make swimming a real pleasure.

This would be the perfect sea hiking accessory.

Ron?

Pete be the best swimmer I ever seen :inlove

What he's describing is what I was doin' before I started thinking about all this arm stuff - except I think it's a little harder to do the arms down thing with a mono. To me it feels like I need to keep the undulations small enough to avoid the front of my body moving up and down - so with a mono and arms down they end up pretty tiny. I found it useful to watch my progress against the bottom rather than focusing on the feeling of thrust, or lack thereof.
I'm going to work on this some more next time in.

Concur with everything laminar said. I don't do the "shark" very well, I think because of lousy undulation technique, but everything else sounds right. I need to get somebody to video me on the surface and see if there is more undulation than I think.

Combining arms and legs with a dol-fin for really relaxed, fairly slow long distance is a good concept. Just a small amt of experimentation convinced me.

Connor

Kars said:

I suggest resting your hands on a kick-board.

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Hi Kars,

regarding the kick board, I got one when you first mentioned I shall practice with it. However, my younger son acquired it immediately. It got him more confidence and he decided to stop using his kids bifins and swim just with the board. So a positive outcome has come quickly but just from an unexpected source I will use the board in my training as you recommend.

Kars said:

May I ask what your goals are swimming those
5km?

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5 km is a random figure - I really hoped I can swim more than 4 km I swam 20 years ago without any gear. Plus, lady at a boat rental company said that the electric boat we were renting would only keep working for 1 hour.

My next goal is 8 km, direct line on map not real swimming distance. Then 36 km lake length LOL. Impossible to get so much time for something
not-beneficial-for-family. Speed doesn't matter at this stage when I am not sure if I ever manage to cross the lake at its width.

Simos said:

I am basically trying to do the stroke in the video below...

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Excellent. This is the swim style I thought my water polo colleague has invented. It seems though it is a standard butterfly training technique

The video shows nicely that at the amazing moment when the stroking hand flashes back to water, it is leg downstroke which does propulsion and acceleration. Now when I think about it, when I swim this style without any fins or paddles, I also put as much power as I can into that particular downstroke - because that's the only thing which can help one move forward except for hand stroke. Upstroke without fins provides very little propulsion if any. Also, doing downstroke without fins does not provide much strain for muscles. Putting a big monofin on changes dynamics of this swim style a lot.

Thanks for pasting the video!

Fondueset, thanks for the acknowledgement. I have found monofinning to be possibly the best spine exercise I have found! Have you tried the X-20 yet? I would love to hear a comparison report from your experience with Nemo, Hyper/Starfin, and X-20. I see the three as quite possibly in that order performance-wise, with the X being by far the most adjustable and perhaps requiring (or offering the opportunity for) more learning to develop new strokes. Monofin stroke has been refined over years of competition, coaching, and practice for us to learn from, yet X-finning is obviously new. I think with some additional streamlining we might see huge speed increases. It is exciting!

neurodoc said:

Even the knees could suffer, as pushing the knees in upstroke when fully extended will eventually cause hyperextension injuries as you stretch those ligaments without much muscular support at that angle (legs fully straight).

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Hi Neurodoc - I have been thinking about this. True indeed. I keep saying that my upstroke with changed X20 feels like as if I were jumping ahead but it is not a totally exact description. When jumping, keens bend a bit and help with the move. It is not the case with my upstroke. And I do feel slight tension in knees as you predict. It does not translate into pain and it does not limit my performance / distance but it is there as you say.

laminar said:

I'm enjoying reading about your experiments with the configuation of the X-20. But I wonder if the focus at this stage should be more on your choice of swimming style, first?

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I have been thinking about this. I remember that when I first swam with new X20, it was clear from the first moment on that it was miles better than my classic axial mono. But with my need for a quick downstroke, I always heard how the blade hit against trim plates and I had the timing vs gravity assist issue. Again, it was better than with classic mono but still not totally comfortable. So I took a number of measures to make that downstroke strainless and suitable for my style.

But why did I not consider to change style first? I am not sure. I guess I couldn't imagine what else to swim. Youtube says nothing, on youtube monofin equals limited oxygen. Also this forum did not elaborate in detail on surface swim styles before. And I never doubted my style wouldn't be ok with enough training. Well, this is past now...

Good weather is back here, I will be in pool tomorrow. I am confused what to swim. I have difficulty imagining how exactly all of you swim. All of you provided detailed descriptions but it is not easy to follow verbal description without seeing the particular style once at least.

Ideally, please everybody provide a video. We could have them here in one place any anybody could return here for study during long cold winter

I will try to get someone to video me in the pool-I have an underwater camera so it should be easy. I think it is wonderful that you choose to experiment with strokes to see what works for you! When we talk about the knees-tight but not hurting under upstroke style, what will doing repeated 5k swims or training for longer (36k? oh my!) swims-what will that do to the body's structure? to me, it is something to consider. I am impressed that you do such long swims-it sounds relaxing. My stroke (which is not with X20, yet) is more of a conventional finswim/monofin stroke, as I have been practicing the video tutorials that Trux put up on apnea.cz (which is great, btw). Much of what I have had to work on, (and possibly you also? ) is stretching, flexibility of back and shoulders, core strength, situps/planks etc., to get the strength to push the fin through the water and stay hydrodynamic. These exercises are on apnea.cz in video form. While the x20 gives you more options, you may still find these useful and they may give you more ideas to work with and develop your own stroke that works for you best.

Fan-fucking-tastic... 175m NR

Nice job Ron! You should have had some website address on your fin and suit.

This fin looks so nice and sexy ;-)... excellent paint job btw...

REVAN said:

Oh yes. That National Record was a great feeling indeed!

Stats: DYN 175 meters, Dive Time 2:05, Avg. Speed 1.4 m/s or about 35 seconds per 50 meter length.

Also, it is worth noting that I took the record from Wess Lapp at 172 meters, who set his record last summer with (you guessed it), another DOL-Fin ORCA.

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Great, congrats for the NR Ron! Have you ever tried doing a proper max attempt with a traditional monofin out of curiosity? What distance would you estimate you could do with one?

What exactly is the difference between the Orca and the X-20 (except for the shoe part)? Which one is more efficient?

I would really like to try an Orca or X-20, because I would never make such a purchase decision without doing so. Is there any chance that someone will end up coming to Germany with one? Or do you by chance know of somebody in Germany, who already owns one?

As mentioned above, the DOL-FIN has a curious effect on wild dolphins. They go nuts. check the link below. The good part starts just before minute 3.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEFs8HJoLl4]simon1dolphins2012 - YouTube[/ame]

Note my less than perfect technique. I normally just laze along, and don't need much core undulation, knees and ankles seem more efficient. Here I needed some speed and power, that would come from undulation, and did not have it.

Thanks to Ron for such a cool piece of kit. This dolphin experience alone was worth the price of admission.

Connor