Extreme Dolfinism

[REVAN]

FYI: DOL-Fins on the United States Freediving Association's new Blog along with other recent freediving news...

- New Monofin Technology Available: National Records Set | USFA Freediving Blog

 

[REVAN]

It seems like it is time for an update to let people know what's going on. So, here is the latest from Smith Aerospace Corp.

We tried a new DOL-Fin monofin architecture. The hope was to make something to replace the X-20. The new design was going to include flotation for buoyance, and was intended to be close to the Orca in performance. Many months went into designing, building and testing the new design. However, in the end and after several design revisions, the new design actually performed slightly worse than the X-20. Sometimes, things do not work out the way you think they will.

The new plan is to look at making a float option available for the X-20 instead of introducing a new monofin design. When you have a good design, it can be difficult to improve above and beyond it. The float option will be similar to the early prototype shared on our Facebook page back at the beginning of 2013 and could be fitted to existing X-20 monofins.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Smith-Aerospace-Corp-DOL-Fin-Monofins/180603155290344

 

[REVAN]

I'd very much appreciate getting peoples opinions. Do you feel the DOL-Fin X-20's aesthetics are good? Does it provide feelings of confidence and quality when you look at it, or does it look complicated and uninviting?

 

[Simos]

I'd very much appreciate getting peoples opinions. Do you feel the DOL-Fin X-20's aesthetics are good? Does it provide feelings of confidence and quality when you look at it, or does it look complicated and uninviting?

I know it'll sound like an odd comment but for me wearing shoes in water feels wrong. I think we're conditioned to not wear shoes in water from a young age so my brain protests a bit although I know that rationally it doesn't make sense.

Other than that, I wouldn't say that it feels complicated but perhaps a bit 'foreign' (now I am used to it but I remember when I first saw it, it was like nothing I'd seen before) and perhaps a bit 'technical' (as opposed to organic)

 

[Fondueset]

I like the look of it. I'm cheating - but I can attest to the build quality based on my experience with the orca. Cycling shoes are a nice solution - the only drawback is, at least with the ones I've used, they don't flex much. This places more abrupt force on the ankle when you change direction - but i don't see that as a problem with the foil design because of how smoothly it transitions.

I was thinking a single point of attachment for the blade would be cool - but the way it is set up is probably more durable and distributes force more evenly.

Simos, I think you'd be surprised how natural these feel in the water. The Orca actually likes proper monofin form, with some nuanced changes - mostly in amplitude, as much or more than my hyperfin.

 

[Apneaddict]

For pure freediving applications (dyn, cwt, etc) performance is king.

Comfort allows ppl to ALSO then use it recreationally and for touring.

Re: design, it does look high tech and modern.

One of my personal considerations is that it is a very wide foil. I am a strong kicker and would likely go for one of your larger foils for more surface area and better performance, however the fact that it is so much wider than a hyperfin / my body AND has a 90* / flat leading edge unnerves me for small caves / swim-throughs and all of our worst nightmare: entanglements / fishing line / nets, etc.

I am not an engineer nor marine biologist, but I don't see fish (nor aircraft) with a straight / 90* appendage. What would be the performance trade-offs with a tuna or marlin tail type of design? I assume there is a design complexity / cost implication as well with such a compound curve and dimensions changing throughout the length.

Aft-raked foils / flukes look more organic but also might "APPEAR" more hydrodynamic in silhouette to a layman.

There is also a trend (back to organic movement) for fins that flex / "V". This too LOOKS more "natural" than a mechanical appendage.

I think it depends on the market you are going for.

Honesty... It could look like a horizontal phallus or a tattered sail... But as long as it performed great (with a hyperfin as the benchmark), freedivers would compete with it!

For mass market / hydrotouring, I'm of the belief that comfort, aesthetics, durability and price point (not necessisarily in that order) will be more important than "pure performance".

If you can build a 3d marlin tail from aluminum, in 3 different sizes with a degree of flex, attaching to cycling shoes, covered in a shroud, for $250 and make a profit - you'll sell 10,000+

If you can sell it to them for $50, Wal-Mart will pick you up and retail it for $89 and you'll sell 1 million+

 

[Apneaddict]

And for the record, I think the x-20 looks like a quality piece and I am sure it is comfortable.

One if the biggest issues to mass-marketing a "monofin" type of device is likely the initial foreign feelings that a first-timer has when their feet are bound together an they are in the water. Very "unnatural" to most, after decades of bi-pedal walking / running.

 

[Simos]

I like the look of it. I'm cheating - but I can attest to the build quality based on my experience with the orca. Cycling shoes are a nice solution - the only drawback is, at least with the ones I've used, they don't flex much. This places more abrupt force on the ankle when you change direction - but i don't see that as a problem with the foil design because of how smoothly it transitions.

I was thinking a single point of attachment for the blade would be cool - but the way it is set up is probably more durable and distributes force more evenly.

Simos, I think you'd be surprised how natural these feel in the water. The Orca actually likes proper monofin form, with some nuanced changes - mostly in amplitude, as much or more than my hyperfin.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant my comments purely from an aesthetics point of view of the 'product' - I am sold on performance and have also come to like the look of it but I do recall being a bit unsure (not negative) about the looks when I first saw it so I just tried to dissect the 'why'.

 

[Fondueset]

Form follows function Simos - I think your remarks are what Ron was asking for. I also think the Dol-fins are all about performance.

 

[monkeyhatfork]

from an aesthetic point of view i think there has been a nice progression, the dolphin classic looked awkward and unnatural if u didn't know what it was u might not recognize it as an aquatic tool, the orca looks the best and the most organic cause of the streamline fairing that covers the feet but the x-20 looks pretty nice, from a photo point of view the hyperfins still have a bit of aesthetic beauty over the x-20 but that comes at the cost of agility in which the x-20 looks hand down more efficient. I think people are used to seeing things evolve in baby steps and this is such an abrupt change from the traditional mono that it just takes time for people to adjust to it. When u look at a profile view of a traditional mono there is a wave like contour flow from the tip of ur fingers to the end of the tail that follows the undulation very fluidly, to some degree the straight shafts that extend the blade well away from the feet on the dol-fins break that natural looking contour because they don't bend with the contour line the way rubber foot pockets bend with the blade bend on a hyperfin, i think thats the uneasiness some people feel looking at it but cant quit pin point, but i think thats all in it being so new and radically different but the more i see it especially in video the more i like it and i think it actually looks more like how a dolphin tail actually functions than a traditional mono we just arent as graceful as them

 

[azapa]

I have only ever tried the X18, but I would recommend some effort to make it more pool friendly. Maybe the X20 etc is different, but there would be too much metal contact in a pool with the X18 to get away with regular use. Some removable rubber buffers at the contact points? (back of fin for push-offs/standing and wing tips for turns)

 

[Fondueset]

I've been using the orca in a pool for a couple of months now. It does require a different protocol in the shallow end than a hyperfin, but it's not really a problem. It might be that really picky management would have a problem with the exposed metal blade stops, but that could be mitigated with tape or something. I'm not comfortable sharing a lane when I'm using it, but thats not been a problem - people pretty much avoid my hyperfin as well If you park the Orca at the lane entrance while your doing no-fins they give you a wide birth

 

[cdavis]

Second Azapa's comments, except that regular use is possible. The x18 is pretty hard on pool walls, mostly metal contact during pushoffs or fast turns. I've learned to completely avoid problems, but it took a while.

Fondy, you been holding out on us. How do you like it? How bout a review.

Connor

 

[noa]

I'd very much appreciate getting peoples opinions. Do you feel the DOL-Fin X-20's aesthetics are good? Does it provide feelings of confidence and quality when you look at it, or does it look complicated and uninviting?

i give you a lot of credit for being open to opinions and constructive criticism.

i also think that it's fairly difficult to get an unbiased opinion from the people on this forum (and especially the ones involved in the monofin section) because no one here is really new to monofins in their various forms and incarnation.
in other words, i believe that if your aim is to go beyond making and selling fins to freedivers like the ones on this forum, then these and other questions, should better be addressed to your potential target group.
an imaginary and simple example. make a fin prototype with more "organic" and fish/cetacean tail appearance, and show it side by side with an X20 at a trade show like Dema.
the people there are not neccesarily freedivers or monofin users but dive or at least have some contact with water sports/activities.
having these two similar functioning, but aestheticly different fins side by side, observe which of the two models gets more attention.
i think you already most likely know the answer to that.
function is of primordial importance, but couple that with form and it will take a product a long way.
last but not least, from my point of view to reply to the question you ask.
from all the pictures i have seen here and on your site. yes, your fins most certainly look like top quality products and they indeed inspire confidence.
they are however not very aestheticly attractive.

 

[Kars]

The only thing that is missing is razor blades on the leading edges to quickly de-limb my fellow pool users

I agree with the points made above: organic look, more safe to other pool users, neutral buoyancy at all depths, much less danger for entanglement.

The nicest qualities for me are: low weight, efficiency, strong, compact travel.

However I still need to find a local who has one I may try.


Quick Ideas that come to mind to facilitate most of the points is to have a leading piece of rubber that is like a triangle creating that organic look and being a bumper as well as a arrow line deflecting kelp and other obstacles to the side.
Also the limiting fins on the bottom look like sharp fangs, perhaps put a rubber sleeve over these?

Have you got any feedback as to why the best freedivers do not use your hydrofoil at the moment? I imagine it should be great for CWT and DYN. What's holding these people back from using your hydrofoil?

 

[Fondueset]

Okay, Connor :

I've had my tootsies in a beta revised Orca for awhile now. I like it.
I was very surprised by how 'organic' it feels while swimming. I expected something that sort of clanked and switched - but it flows very nicely. I was also worried about having to modify my technique. I like the classic 'straight-legged' monofin stroke - which places movement in the core and spine - not the knees. If anything the Orca responds to this even better than a hyperfin.

High angles don't work well, but a relatively small amplitude/full-body undulation works very well indeed - and the fin has almost no drag.

Since this is essentially an alpha unit I'll save my critiques for Ron - but this is a VERY sound design. Excellent performance. Superior comfort, durability and maneuverability.

 

[Kars]

Fondueset, Ron, how is the durability of the blade connection?

Fondueset, in what ways is it different in CWT? - how does it act at the bottom turn and while being (very) negative buoyant? - if I'm not mistaken I recall Eric Fattah commenting that he did not feel confident enough to go deeper then 70m with it, he preferred the feel of trusted safety of his hyperfin. I also notice he employs the legs only technique. Now surely one needs to gain trust in such radical new design product, have you had any such trust issues?

I guess it's that trust that needs to be there before more people will buy this new design.

Perhaps Dave Mullins likes to see how far and deep he can get with it?
If he does a 129m CWT dive with it, I think the competition's interest will be peeked...

 

[azapa]

I think the confidence issue is due to the feedback the dol-fin provides: it just feels too easy! Much the same that many assume a soft carbon bifin does not propel well, even though whilst swimming alongside a user of hard plastic fins, the soft carbons are twice as fast. Long standing mono-fin users will want to feel that hard fibre glass resistance, the wide blade leveraging against the water.

 

[REVAN]

Fondueset, Ron, how is the durability of the blade connection?...

I have always considered the parts that make the connection to be wearing parts, and so I made them easy to replace and inexpensive parts. However, they are proving to be very durable parts. Of all the fins I've made to date, none have worn out or failed and needed to be replaced.

For fun, here is a really nice photo of the DOL-Fin Orca at the World Championships in Kalamata.

 

[noa]

sounds like there is a new version of the Orca. how has it been improved over the previous one ?
had asked the following in the past, but i guess there might be changes in that too.
is it possible to purchase an Orca without the fairing, to be used more in an X20 manner ?