F.O.M./F.O.Y. discussion thread for 2011

[foxfish]

The specimen idea is good but - these things can take some working out to make everybody happy with the final format!
Then we have the possible problem of who is going to run yet another competition?

Anyhow lets look at the idea...I think we would have to use the HOF for the percentage basis but, that would mean only the fish in the HOF could be eligible for the competition. What if someone catches a thin lipped mullet or a grey gurnard?
I don't even know how uptodate the HOF is?

Personally I would be be very happy to see a specimen hunt taking place over the year so, please discuss as much as possible......

 

[Jonny250]

I agree with SnS about keeping the FOM/FOY too. Probably the first year of running a speccie hunt would be a tester anyway. I'm sure we could nominate speccie 100% values for fish not in the HOF.

It would be good to get some opinions from people like the Shiny one and Sunfish, as they have produced some more varied catches on the forums... Also, any anglers out there with views.

btw, i would suggest that species like wrasse, dogfish & conger would not be eligible...

 

[foxfish]

I think we would have to set the fish species that will be eligible with the qualifying weights + the target weights.
Jonny you could ask Caleb to chime in as he is the expert on the subject?

 

[shiny1]

It sounds like a great idea. I have a link to something similar they use in South Africa.
Spearfishing and Freediving in South Africa

Like you say Martin. You would need to set the species for the comp rather than leave it open for all species.
Using the HOF for reference to work out the percentages would work or you could use the British records which is what they use at National Comps.
Im not sure the winner of the FOY and SOY (spearo of the year) would be the same. This would make it all the more interesting

 

[scottwilson]

Makes sense Nick. LIC/ BSA are more relevent to us than anglers percentages. Maybe we could fill in the gaps from the HOF with the BSA?

 

[foxfish]

I think we should put the forum first & stick to our own HOF for inspiration?

 

[shiny1]

The HOF is good. We already have 3 british records in it. The Tuna,Garfish and the Lemon Sole.

 

[caleb-gtir]

Sounds like you guys are on to the start of an awesome, and what is likely to be a very popular, bit-of-fun-competition.

Firstly decide on the species you don't want to include; essentially fish that won't be speared for the sake of spearing and are likely to be eaten.

Then build up your list of eligible species, including a qualifying weight or size, keep it low in year one to get more people involved, raise them when people start finding it easy. As mentioned previously, using a percentage score against the hall of fame is the perfect solution.

Where a species isn't included then create either a standard catch all weight for that fish to be judged against (possibly categories; <2lb < 5lb etc) or create an educated record weight i.e. grey gurnard could be 1lb qualifying weight and 1.5lb pseudo record. Creating the list wouldn't be too tricky to do, and I'd go for the latter.

The winner is the spearo to get as many different species of fish, if its a tie, go to percentage. Or the winner is the person with highest percentage. I prefer the former as it becomes more a variety contest and will stretch people to try new places.

In year two introduce a team event where the best of each species is entered on behalf of all four team members.

 

[foxfish]

Thanks Caleb, I like the whole concept, it is now going to be about finding someone to organise it all into a presentable package?
The problem is there are hardly any active members in January!

 

[caleb-gtir]

I'll see if Matt Mahy can send me the PDF or text from the brochure and I might be able to create some clear ground rules.

 

[sunfish]

I was wondering..... say someone caught a six pound mullet and entered it. If they went on to catch a seven pounder, could they update to the seven or would the first entry be final?

I like the sound of this and I think any eligible fish caught which isn't in the hall of fame should be put in and entered as 100%.

 

[sunfish]

Another thought. Someone might catch a fish bigger than the current HOF entry!!!
Does it become the new 100% and do fish caught earlier that year need a % drop or do we stay with the start of year HOF fish and count the bigger one as 137% or whatever? (I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone else but I know what I meanroflroflrofl).

 

[Jonny250]

I'll see if Matt Mahy can send me the PDF or text from the brochure and I might be able to create some clear ground rules.

Thanks caleb

Sunfish, you would only get say 10 entries max in the fom, one per month, so if you enter the same species twice then that would cost you a species entry, i.e. You could enter a second species in the second month, rather than a slightly bigger version of the same species for just a few more percent. This might call for a bit of 'species planning' and a smidge of good fortune to target and catch certain species at certain times of year.

I would be happy to put together a proposal table of Hof and other eligible fish With weight and min size for people to review?

 

[jerseymike]

I think the FOM is a great comp. It is a good incentive to seek quality fish and for my part I think it should continue as is ( I will keep trying).

That said, I also really like this idea of adding a species hunt. I really like specimen hunting. It encourages diversity, but shld also reward quality.

I have a f basic idea re a specimen comp for people to chew over.

A diver should get rewarded for catching different species, but also I suggest the weight of the specimen above an agreed qualifying weight could also be rewarded.

So, suggest along the lines of

1) Agree a list of eligible species and set minimum qualifying weight for each eligible species
2) Diver awarded one point for every eligible species caught (which is above qualifying weight)
3) Diver awarded additional points for every kilo,or part kilo above the qualifying weight to a maximum of three points per fish. Eg if you were to set the Bass qualifying weight as 2500g, if a diver caught a 2500g bass he/she wld get one point, if the bass were 3100g they wld get one point for the species and an additional .6 pts because it is .6 kilo above the min qualifying weight (ie a total of 1.6pts). If a diver caught a 6000g bass.... they wld get the maximum 3pts(and enter for FOM/FOY!)
4) Divers running total carried forward for the year
5) Diver with most points wins
5) Only one fish of each species can be entered, but a diver could catch a 3000g bass and later replace it with a better 5000g bass

Not sure if/how this type of comp could be managed on deeper blue?

I have pinched a list of fish from my local club and have and added a few guestimate qualifying weights which I will also post for discussion.

 

[jerseymike]

Things like wrasse, salmon, sea trout, conger etc could be excluded


Species Minimum qualifying weight weight
Amberjack 500
Anglerfish 2500
Bass 2500
Bream - Black 1000
Bream - White 500
Brill 1000
Coalfish 1000
Cod 2000
Conger 10000
Dab 500
Flounder 1000
Freshwater Eel 1500
Snipe 500
Grey Mullet - Golden 1000
Grey Mullet - Thick Lip 2000
Grey Mullet - Thin Lip 2000
Gurnard - Red 500
Gurnard - Tub 1000
Halibut 1400
John Dory 1000
Mackerel 500
Monkfisk 2500
Plaice 1000
Pollack 1500
Pouting 500
Ray - Blonde 5000
Ray - Small Eyed 4000
Ray - Thornback 5000
Ray - Undulate 5000
Red Mullet 500
Rocking ( 3 beard ) 500
Salmon 1000
Sea Trout 1000
Shad 600
Skad - Horse Mackerel 500
Sole 1000
Tope & Shark 8000
TopKnot 500
Trigger Fish 1000
Turbot 3000
Whiting 600
Wrasse 3000

 

[caleb-gtir]

Another thought. Someone might catch a fish bigger than the current HOF entry!!!
Does it become the new 100% and do fish caught earlier that year need a % drop or do we stay with the start of year HOF fish and count the bigger one as 137% or whatever? (I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone else but I know what I meanroflroflrofl).

137% Sunfish, that is how angling specimen hunt are treated, therefore a real reward for getting a record, can be the make or break of the title :martial

 

[jerseymike]

I like night diving and I have found that it is a very good method of catching fish, but from my own experience, I know that the hunting/diving skills required fall well below what is needed to catch the same fish in day light hours. For that reason I suggest that a specimen hunting "comp" should be limited to day caught fish only. Any thoughts?

 

[Jonny250]

I'm 100% with Mike for the daytime only fom entries.

Here is a suggestion for fish species and weights - i have included minimum and also 100% weights and i would suggest only the fish on the list score for the speccie hunt [but others can still be entered in the fom] - so maybe use this list as a starting point and add/delete to the list as you think...
I have not included fish like wrasse, conger, mackerel, etc. but hope that the list is diverse enough for all of uk, ireland and channel islands fisheries.
its not a definitive list, but a starting point; we can decide whether to use Mikes points system, or a % system.

Speccie hunt [SH] fish would be entered as part of the fom entry system and could be voted for in that too. This would limit the SH entries to 1 per person per month, total of say 10 entries per person over the year [for the keen people!].

..........................Minimum Weight Kg ...........100% Weight Kg
Bass (European) ..............3.00 ..............................6.00
Bream – Black ..................0.48............................. 0.95
Bream – White ..................0.50 .............................1.00
Brill ...................................0.41 ..............................0.82
Cod ..................................3.86 ..............................7.73
Dab.................................. 0.43 ..............................0.86
Flounder (European) .........1.05 ..............................2.09
Gilthead Bream .................1.14 ..............................2.27
Grey Mullet - thick lip ........2.05 .............................4.09
Grey Mullet - Golden Grey .0.48............................. 0.95
Gurnard - Red ...................0.59.............................. 1.18
Gurnard – Tub ...................1.00 ..............................2.00
Plaice .................................1.57............................. 3.14
Pollack ..............................3.52 ..............................7.05
Pouting............................... 0.64 .............................1.27
Ray – Blonde ......................7.05............................ 14.09
Ray – Thornback ................3.32.............................. 6.64
Ray – Undulate ...................3.52 ..............................7.05
Red Mullet ..........................0.61 ..............................1.23
Salmon ...............................2.00 ..............................4.00
Sea Trout ...........................0.91 ..............................1.82
Sole (common) (Dover) .......1.07............................. 2.14
Tope & Shark, including porbeagle 7.45 ...................14.90
Triggerfish ...........................0.91 ..............................1.82
Turbot .................................1.59.............................. 3.18

 

[scottwilson]

so the minimum size bass u can enter is 6.6lb ???

 

[Jonny250]

Oops..
i just took the minimum size fish as 50% of the max, maybe that needs adjusting...