Freedivers safety vest in development

[Huan]

I have no affiliation with this company but this may be the single biggest advancement in freedive safety to date.
I am sure that all of us know of someone who has died as a result of SWB
hopefully this device will drastically reduce the amount of people killed as a result of SWB.
http://www.freedive.net/SWB/vest1_lo_rez.pdf

 

[fcallagy]

Its an interesting article Huan,
any ideas on prices etc or is it in production and has anyone bought one ?
The website isn,t running at present. I can inevitably see them being used by solo freedivers and the author obviously warns about this.
Another question, is there any governing body Aida, or other collating freedive fatalities similar to BSAC scuba fatalities and if not how could it be done ?
As a group we should really be learning from them checking dive profiles etc

 

[Huan]

Hi Feargus

No I haven't got any more info on the vest apart from what was posted.
I know that this has been in development for quite some time and the people doing the developing are serious.
I think that the main difficulty with collecting information is that many of the deaths occur in solo spearos, and the fact that there is no formal training regime makes it almost impossible to police or gather stats on.
I can just click on the link and it works for me?

 

[spaghetti]

I think i need a vest like that.
What hits me is that my country has the record of freediving schools (there's more than one in any smalltown with a pool) and also the record of deaths. But the statistics mentioned in the article don't convince me: they say we're 12.500 freedivers in Italy, but spearos are 83.000.
Anyway, it's true that we have so many casualties. Talking about vests in general, at least three deaths last summer were due to unproper use of weight vests by spearos: guys went -30mt with those harness and couldn't turn back to surface. This maybe Off Topic (sorry), but it's an issue.

 

[Jon]

Anyone have a price estimate on this thing?

Can we actually buy it yet? If so, does anyone have a link?

Jon

 

[Huan]

Jon as far as I am aware the vest is still under development.
I am sure that given the amount of money spent on R+D (100k+)and the high profile of the individuals involved, that you will definately know when it is ready.

 

[Jon]

I remember a similar thread about this a couple of years ago- and Kirk mentioning something about it during a clinic in 2001.

Just wondering if it's a totally new system, or an update of the "Guardian Angel" vest from a couple years ago?

http://www.jp-petit.com/dangers/danger_eng/apnea_eng/lifejckt.htm


Jon

 

[Fondueset]

I'm allways impressed by designs that accomplish complex tasks like this without the use of electronics.

 

[efattah]

The article clearly states that the vest uses electronics to accomplish its goal.

 

[jimdoe2you]

Jon,

I remember Kirk did mention something about it. As I recall the concept has similarities to the modern hand grenade, in that you pull a pin and hold a lever in place by squeezing tightly with your hand. If you pass out, your hand will relax and let go of the lever, and this actuates the CO2 charged inflatable neck vest that floats the diver face up.

If however the diver returns safely to the surface without SWB, he or she merely puts the pin back into place to keep the unit fron inflating.

This is what I recall.

Jim

 

[efattah]

Sorry, my error, the 1st vest (Terry Maas) uses electronics, while the Guardian Angel is mechanical....

 

[fcallagy]

just a thought on the above,
I think none of us like the idea of a vest from a hydrodynamic point of view. Would anyone know of the feasability of having such a system built into wetsuits. The working element co2 cylindr etc might be placed in a hump between the shoulders ( similar to some of the motorcyles riders leather suits ) its aero dynamic for them but thats with helmet and their position on the bike etc so unsure of how it would strreamline a diver. the bladders persumably small may be built into the chest to shoulder area with small tubes across or under the shoulders. Just wondering

 

[Huan]

My take on the vest is that it is aimed more at the Spearo rather than a deep diving freediver.
The market is also probably a lot bigger for spearos rather than pure apneistas.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Huan and others,

Yes, the vest is aimed primarily towards spearfisherman if for no other reason that it has enough air to inflate and lift a diver above 120ft.

I talked to Terry about it and never thought someone would actually go through all the trouble and initial investment necessary to produce it. I'm happy to see I was wrong and will definitely plan to get one as soon as they are available regardless of what the initial cost is. You can't really put a price on life. I would assume that if enough people got interested and the volume was there the pricing could eventually be made affordable to most.

In the 60's Mares had developed a rough prototype called the DSA, an acronym for something like Diapositivo,(something) Apnea. I recall sending a copy of the article to Terry for his group as they worked on their new project. Mares originally gave up on the project not sensing enough market potential. It was fairly streamlined and looked like an airline vest made of a clear plastic membrane which was based on a simple spring loaded timer if I remember it right and a co2 cartridge. I remember also seeing the Alitalia stamp on it, so maybe it really was a prototype using an airliner's inflation vest.

Anyhow, the Applied Ocean Specialties Inc. vest is much more up to date. I think it emphasizes "over safety" much more so than "over practicality" in that
you have to consciously deactivate it after each dive to prevent it from inflating. While it may be a pain to some, especially those who used it to push the limit as it inflates to the preset time only a few seconds after they hit the surface (thereby cutting it close), it will teach a good lesson not to push it so close. The idea of a wrist sensor swiped across the chest to deactivate it is brilliant, that's easy enough for anyone to do with one hand while the other one is on the gun. If you're having a samba and you're sculling with both hands in a state of slow motion trying to get with it then you also deserve to have it go off. Nothing to say, well thought out.

Mark

 

[Fondueset]

I was thinking last night (between dreams of swimming with my new ice fins - really!) that it might be interesting for Erik F to look into integrating something like this with the F1. As has been stated elsewhere - the obvious problem for the serious freediver would be streamlining.

For spearos this is almost something that could be integrated into a weight vest.

 

[Jon]

This thing is already on the top of my "must have" list. I just wish I knew a ball park figure on it's cost so I would know how much blood I'll have to sell to pay for it.

Back in the 80's there was a wetsuit company, I think it was Moray, that made wetsuits with integrated B.C.'s built right into them. They had the bladder built into the front of the suit and had the oral inflator hose coming out on the upper left hand side of the chest. I seem to remember that this was a New Zeland company so maybe someone from that neck of the woods can back me up on it. Most of us have also seen the pictures of Pipin's and Loic's inflatable suits so it has be done in the past- although those didn't have the timing systems on them.

From the picture in the article it looks stream lined enough for spearing. The part that caught my attention was that the cylinder was a small bottle that could refilled off of a scuba tank, something like a spare air. This would be MUCH nicer to have than replaceable CO2 cartriges.

I tried to email Terry Mass on a price, or a contact, but haven't gotten an answer back.

Jon

 

[efattah]

With the F1 technology already developed, building an auto-inflating vest would be quite simple -- in particular if the vest itself (rubber/plastic membrane) already existed and just needed a cylinder & electronics.

However there are serious liability issues involved.

 

[Huan]

I remember the issue of liability being discussed during the development of this, and from memory there was some talk about it being sold as a kit that you completed.
I really can't remember the exact details but it was along those lines.

 

[Fondueset]

The liability stuff would be extremely scarey - and also the likelyhood that alot of divers would get overconfident and take risks they might not otherwise. Be great to get it on the market though - I hope those issues an be overcome - possibly some kind of massive disclaimer.

 

[Jon]

talk about it being sold as a kit that you completed

I, believe, that's how the KISS rebreather is being sold- along with a big notice engraved into the side of the scrubber cansiter saying that this coud kill you if you dive it. :t

From the people I know who dive the KISS it seems to work out pretty well for them, and after seeing the unit up close and personal I wouldn't mind owning one myself.

Jon