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Freediving beginner questions!

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lambe

New Member
Mar 1, 2011
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Hello everyone! I'm what I would call myself a beginner at freediving. Yet I'v been sailing/surfing/diving for about 10 years I believe. I'v recently started training DNF and my record at the moment is 50m. I love diving and everything that got to do with water, problem is that there is no freediving club or anything near me so I have to learn myself and from forums etc:)
I'v never measured the deep of a freedive but how far would you guys think I would dive if I can do 50m DNF?

All tips and advices are very welcome too!
 
My first advice would be: Do NOT dive alone, it is too dangerous! In the water you should always have a buddy watching you from close by, so in case of a blackout you won't drown.
When you are on your own you can do plenty of dry statics to improve your breathhold. Just use the search function for the CO2 and O2 tables, also named A and B table.

If you do 50DNF you will have enough air for 20m deep. But the limiting factor in the beginning is equalization. I recommend to learn the Frenzel method, it helps a lot (it has also been described on this forum). But once again: Do NOT try that alone!
 
I would have guessed 15-20m aswell:) I'm not training as much on land as I am in water, usually I swim 25m and then wait a min or two then go again and keep going like this untill I can't take it anymore:)
If I would to go for my personal record or later on going for 75m, how would one do to make the best of one dive? Hyperventilate after like 10min break and then go all in or should I warm up or what do u suggest?:)
Thanks for the quick answer, and yes I will always put safety first!:)

Edit: Also, how big of difference is it in DNF and with fins? would I make the 75m with fins or how far would I come?
 
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Hyperventilating is something most freedivers strongly advice against. I agree, don't do it.

The best advice I can now give you is to try to do a freediver course. Allt om fridykning - artiklar, kurser, utfrder, tvlingar, inspiration
Sebastian Naslund sure can help you find an instructor near by. There are some really good Swedish freedivers and Finnish ones in case you live closer to that border.

A course will jump start your diving career big time, it will teach you the principles and safety that will make the experience very rewarding.

On to your questions:

The 25 and pause sounds like a 16x50m training. Researching the function and purpose of the table A and B will reveal that your limit for now appears to be CO2. Which is a good and safe(r).

With hyperventilation you are artificially lowering the CO2 amount in your system, postponing the urge to breath. AND provoking the body to use much more O2. So your CO2 alarm rings later (maybe too late or NOT AT ALL!), and your body consumes much more O2. That's the bad about hyperventilation.

What practised freedivers do is to ventilate slow with ease calming and relaxing their mind and body, seeking that lucid state of mind where feelings replace most rational. Ok this is a bit deep, let's be practical. A freediver seeks to minimise O2 consumption, swim economical while relaxing every muscle and thought not needed. When the CO2 rises he registers but stays calm and relaxed and maintains the efficient fluent rhythm.

Through improvement of hydrodynamics, swim technique, relaxation you will learn and grow.

There are much more things to learn, efficient breathing, hydration, food, flexibility, mind control to name a few. The blunt approach is very limited in reach, and dangerous.
Focus on technique and relaxation and I'm sure you'll be surprised. Oh and only allow yourself to have small personal best, so you'll have many parties with your buddies.

As for the ration DNF and DYN it hovers around 3:4

Make sure your buddy knows what to do in case of a Black Out.
A BO in the pool can destroy your allowance for freediving activities in your local pool, be careful and maintain good relations with the local staff.

Like Puigshui good advice, do dry exercises on soft land. This will allows you to explore your limits a bit more safely.

Go slow, learn and listen to your mind and body.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
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I sincerely thank you both for this very helpful information!

I will see if I can get hold of Sebastian and try to join a course, I think that's exactly what I need right now.
I recently ordered the movie "The greater meaning of water". I read somewhere that it was the greatest freediving movie since The big blue, at that point I just had to have it;) I will probably love the movie but I guess it's not really an educational freediving movie. Then I found this manual, [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1928649270]Amazon.com: Manual of Freediving: Underwater on a Single Breath (9781928649274): Umberto Pelizzari, Stefano Tovaglieri: Books[/ame], which said helped a lot of people to start diving and pretty much covers all the basics. I saw there was a lot of breathing/yoga movies/books also, would you recommend anything like that or would anyone of you know anything about the book I ordered or any other familiar book/movie in educational purposes?

Really appreciate all the answers and advices!
 
The book you list is a good one to start with, and for sure is has enough content for beginners and advanced divers.

Consider movies good for ambiance, drama but not about realism. Though I really like Le Grand Blues's depiction of Jaques record dive after 1hour and 12 minutes, where the slow motion is reminiscent of the flow experience.

Watching and studying the youtube video's from the freediving celebrities can be helpful understanding how to streamline, relax and swim economically.
 
Yes I am watching and studying youtube video's and a lot of the "big names" in them:)

How about yoga/breathing methods etc? There was a lot of movies and books about that as well but I didn't order nothing.
I guess what I need the most is to keep on practicing to hold my breath and to swim more relaxed and be calm in the water during dnf.

I know for a fact that I'm very good at sports and I'm a quick learner. I have always loved sailing and diving and I really have a great passion for the sea. That's why I think I have what it takes to become great at this sport. Maybe I'm wrong but at least I believe in myself:) I just need to learn a lot more about everything, I want to learn more!
The thing I've been thinking about most is how to get as efficient training as possible while training. Should I keep on swimming 25m dnf and rest 1min and keep going or should I take a longer break and go for 50m instead? oh man all the knowledge I wish I had;) hehe

Next time I'm going to the local pool I'll try dnf without hyperventilate before. The only part I didn't understand of what you said was "Table A and B", what is that? some training method?

I'm sorry for all the questions! but I really can't stop talking/thinking about freediving:)
If you would be to decide what I did next time I went to my local pool, what would you say?

Thanks again for everything!
 
Well, I see you're just like me in the beginning 7,5 years ago, energised and enthusiastic!

The trick is to use this energy economically. Some people dive in and strand quickly falling victim to a bad unbalanced approach. One thing that should be kept in mind is that freediving is more energy hungry that it may initially feel. It's easy to over train in freediving because it's so soft, silent and peaceful under water. it's like having a cut underwater, it feels much less painful than above. The water is like an anaesthetic.

Next session you can try the following, with your buddy!
Do a CO2 - Table A - static training schedule.
This means your going to a series of breath-holds designed to have you learn to deal with a high amount of CO2 in your system. Remember the CO2 gives you the urge to breath. How to do it?
Well you take you personal best time (say 2') and half that to have a base time of ..( say 1' in this example). Then you plot a schedule and ask your buddy to the count down etc. The time in between the dives is going to shorten, allowing less ventilation and more CO2 buildup, rendering the minute dive increasingly more challenging. At the same time you have the comfort of knowing your O2 is al right.

I prefer a warm pool for this.
Apnea time: surface time:
1' - 2'
1' - 1'45"
1' - 1'30"
1' - 1'15"
1' - 1'00"
1' - 0'45"
1' - 0'30"
1' - 0'15"
1' - 0'15" <- added that last one as a little bonus challenge ;)

During this schedule you'll have the opportunity to learn to relax despite the stronger urge to breath, keeping al these many body parts loose and relaxed. You may feel the CO2 effects such as warmth on the chest, the narcotic effect.
After this static schedule drink water, thank your buddy for his security timing and coaching - he can see and feel parts of your body to see if it's relaxed.

Now for dynamic.
Just have a 200m warm up, free stroke will do.
Than it may be fun to practice the dynamic start. See how you can get the furtherest with only a push of the wall. You and your buddy can take turns and share observations. While you're at it you may see you're floating up when you take a full breath, how much air do you need to be neutral in you buoyancy? How much lead could you use diving full lungs? Waist and or neck? (Look it up here on DB)

Next is combining an efficient start with efficient swimming. Limit yourself to 25m and see if you shave off a number of swim strokes. And as you swim those 'easy' 25m lanes notice the CO2 buildup and keep relaxed and efficient despite it. - do not look up/forward, just let your head relaxed down and enjoy the water and glide through it.
If you have the time you practice the turn in the shallow part first (like you did with the start) by swimming a few strokes to the wal, turn and push off efficiently.
You can also practice you leg stroke by swim legs only the 25m in apnea.

At home you practice yogic breathing. Learning to separate the different ways of breathing, using different muscle groups in isolation. Learn to control you breath by breathing controlled, from the belly, with for instance 5 seconds in, 5 out. Another is 5 in 10 out. Do these with eyes closed so you can look inside and notice what's happening.

You can play meditation and focus games, such as concentrating a 100% on what you're doing. Learning how to empty your mind. Learning to focus and direct your mind.
Contact Ulf Dexter for his great (self) hypnosis expertise.

Building up your muscles strength is also nice. Pay attention to effects food have on your mind and body, stay hydrated, have enough sleep.

You see there are a lot of fun things you can do alone pretty safely, but as you don't know your mind and body yet it's good to remain cautious.

During training with my buddy I like to work on my personal projects, such as preparing for a pb in CNF. Most of my training consist of improving technique, strength, endurance, relaxation. Things that I can do easily without buddy limiting my dives to:

"the first urge to breath" or "the first contraction".

Surely when I have a buddy I like to try for 1 "maximum" dive, where I test to put the skills together and have a long swim. I do these 1 - 3 per month.
You'll find that in the beginning it's very easy to do almost a pb every training. With time it will become more challenging and require more real improvements instead of blunt willpower. I also found that my pb's rarely come from planned attempts. No they come when I mentally was divorced to success and just went for a nice long dive.

When you start deep diving it will become very apparent that blunt will power is NOT the way to success during a dive.

I say use the will power where it's useful, during training technique, strength and endurance.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

oh I'm planning to come to Sweden, Nordic Deep this year, it's a great place to meet many fantastic freedivers!
 
I feel like a little child at christmas eve, that exiting feeling when I'm reading your information and hoping it will never end;) Every question u answer makes me question a million more, but all I can think of at the moment is Nordic Deep this year. Not that I could compete there, all thought I wish;P but to come there and learn from the best, meet the best;)

Btw, APNEA.cz - Apnea Training Manager have a pretty great training program in my opinion, gonna see tomorrow if I can transform your schedule and preform it:D Also texted Sebastian on facebook, hoping to find a course nearby my place:)
Btw, have you seen "The greater meaning of water" or any other great freediving movie like The big blue?:) Was looking around for movies like that but it seems like there isn't too many of them, sadly:(

Anyway I can't describe how much I appreciate this information!
I'm sincerely grateful to you Kars:D

Edit: Another question, I work out like 5-6 times a week on gym. How does that affect me diving? Is it good to build up a big body or should I stick to swimming and running?
 
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Then I found this manual, Amazon.com: Manual of Freediving: Underwater on a Single Breath (9781928649274): Umberto Pelizzari, Stefano Tovaglieri: Books, which said helped a lot of people to start diving and pretty much covers all the basics. I saw there was a lot of breathing/yoga movies/books also, would you recommend anything like that or would anyone of you know anything about the book I ordered or any other familiar book/movie in educational purposes?

Really appreciate all the answers and advices!

I would say that is THE book on freediving. Of course, I am biased ;) but I can not think of one other affordable book that covers such a wide range of useful freediving info.
 
I'm pleased to help a beginner out, as I imagine other beginners stumble across this one, and get some good from it too.

You can compete at Nordic Deep, there is NO depth requirement. Nordic deep usually has a lot of beginners. It's about the experience. Usually there are a lot of nice side events and work-shops and many experienced freedivers with time on their hands talking all day about.. many things. Usually there are nice scientist such a Johan who like to examine you from top to bottom. Ok don't take the latter literally :D

No there aren't many freediving movies, usually freediving plays a side role in it. Like in "Phoenix Blue". I haven't seen the Greater Meaning of water yet. But I love Le Grand Blue. I think I've seen it about euhm 8 times?

Ah 5-6 times a week in the gym? You may be a big man! Well that reminds me of Weine Gustavson, big guy too, and successful heartly Swedish freediver!
Au contraire to my body build, muscular people have more ability for sprinting, less for long distance. Your advantage is that your body goes quicker into anaerobe mode. Disadvantage is that you burn more O2 before that, and your flexibility may be less. You can work extra on over all and especially chest, diaphragm flexibility, and over all muscle relaxation. What you can also do is performing SAFE gym exercises while holding your breath extending your anaerobe ability. Make sure you supply the body afterwards with good food and water, and do the same after a water session. A quick nap is also very beneficial for quick recovery. Since you have so much sport in your week I assume you will feel and notice if your workload is not too much for your body. Enough rest is vital, otherwise you cannot recover, let alone grow. Alternating your pool day with a gym day seems like a nice combo, though for me it would be too taxing.
Keeping a journal is also good, and building a sort of plan towards a specific goal provides direction and inspiration. For instance if Nordic deep is your goal, than equalisation, flexibility, swim technique, concentration, breathing would all be needed to do the 3 depth disciplines offered: CNF - CWT - FIM. I think with such a sportive guy your goals could be CNF: 25 - CWT: 30 - FIM: 30. Provided your ears work as advertised :) - Now look around for buildings that size, nice :)

The best thing you can have next week is a knowledgeable freedive buddy to train with.
Enjoy the trip and the deep blue dreams! :D
 
Azapa: Awesome, then I hope I'll learn alot from it!

Kars: Some people can train gym like me 6 times a week and not really gaining any weight:p I'm currently weighing about 68kg and I'm 175cm tall, so I wouldn't say I'm a big man:) hehe but I do have some muscles for my small body size. I will start holding my breath during "safe" activities and see how that works out for me.
CNF: 25 CWT: 30 FIM: 30 would be fantastic and I will set the bar from those numbers! And yes, there is nothing wrong with my ears that I know of. I've been down to I don't know, about 20m recently while scuba diving.

Last night before I went to sleep, while I was lying in bed I thought I'd set a new record. Everyone says it's not dangerous when your training on land and that everyone basically could do 3m without breathing.
I started my diving clock and when I was at 2min the hard part started. I didn't think I would make the 2.30 mark but when I did I sat up and started looking around and doing weird stuff with my stomach muscles and I kinda thought I would pass out for a moment.
3.04 new pb and I was very pleased about it! I know it's no "good" time but it's a start for me;)

Also, you said earlier "As for the ration DNF and DYN it hovers around 3:4 "
That means I could go for 150m DYN which I highly doubt sense my pb is 50m DNF:O
 
Exellent thread thanks guys!!

Kars your willingness to share is very impressive,and greatly appreciated. I had been wondering about weight training and its effects on freediving so many thanks :D
 
Thanks for the blessings, it's well received.

A dry breath-hold of 3+ is very good for beginners.
The Weird belly muscle movements are called "contractions". It's a body reaction to High CO2. You're 2' without them shows to me you indeed have a trained body. With practice you'll learn to lessen the severity of the contractions, shift them a bit further down the time, and endure them longer. What you can do for now is: notice them starting (usually after the swallowing reflex), don't resist them, but right after them consciously relax these muscles before the next contraction comes. for fun you count them to. The principle is that you relax everything, even though the body may put some tensions here and there. The game is to detect these - sometime hidden - tensions and release and relax them. You see a diver doing a static has enough to do, though onlookers don't see that. Know you have hundreds of muscles, which muscles tense up in what order?

In the DNF DYN ratio, I meant: 75 DNF = 100 DYN (3:4)

For equalisation I advice to look up Frenzel-Fatta, and the 'mouth-fil' and learn to do that. You'll need it to get past 20 - 25m depth.

What you can do in the morning under the shower is diaphragm stretches, you know the hollow belly thing that is so often showed by freedivers for documentaries.
Stand stable with you feet apart, rest your hands on your knees, exhale all the air you can as you bent over a bit, hold, as you lift up your ribcage you pull your belly in and try to lift it up a number of times. Repeat several times and learn to control your diaphragm. It's a cool party trick too.

Have fun discovering your body :D

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
I was really happy when I saw that I made the 3min mark but I'm even more pleased now that you are saying it's a great time for me:)
Next time I'm diving I'll go for the 75m DYF which I should be able to make, I think;)

My little brother is 13½ years old and we are diving a lot together, he can do the diaphragm stretches just like the divers do on movie clips etc. I will do my best to learn it sense I assume it will help me resist the pain a bit while holding breath:)

I don't really have anymore questions at the moment but I would hate to end the discussion;) hehe thank you once again!

Edit: Didn't see you there Seacow:( I don't think I'm free that weekend but if I somehow can make it I will see you there! Thanks for the tip, would really be awesome to be there:D
 
Lambe, your enthusiasm makes us all feel good. Thanks for posting.

Kars gives good advice.

50 m no fins is progressing very well; 75 m DYF is starting to get out there for a beginner. Best to have a buddy when you try that.

Connor
 
Lambe, your enthusiasm makes us all feel good. Thanks for posting.
Connor

How nice! yeah I wish everyone would be as happy as I am today;) hehe it just really feels like I'm improving myself! I did pb static last night 3:04 and now I just did massive training at the gym and then ran almost a mile home. I just feel very healthy and in good shape!:) Sometimes everything just goes with the flow!;) love it:D

I prefer a warm pool for this.
Apnea time: surface time:
1' - 2'
1' - 1'45"
1' - 1'30"
1' - 1'15"
1' - 1'00"
1' - 0'45"
1' - 0'30"
1' - 0'15"
1' - 0'15" <- added that last one as a little bonus challenge ;)

I just did this one while lying in my bed watching The big blue. Only difference was that I did it with 1:48 instead of 1':)
When your doing it it feels like my throat is burning, doesn't hurt but it gets really warm:O also my heart seems to be pumping really hard when I hold my breath for a longer period of time. Never felt it beating this hard before I started holding my breath. Btw, I thought the heart beats would slow down while holding breath, I do not know if that's the case but it doesn't feel like it at least. Not sure really.

Btw, that last challenge almost killed me! haha but I guess that was the plan all along;)
Thanks for a great schedule!

Edit: If you like these training schedules, make a visit at http://apnea.cz/training.html?. They really have a great training program on that website, you can even create your own schedule etc! Problem is you have to register and make a small "test" but it's really worth it imo. Check it out!
 
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I just ran through the training schedule there, the one from Kars. It was funny, I found the first ones harder, until I relaxed and let my mind go somewhere else.
I am going to do my first course soon (26/27 march) with BennyB and will finally be able to get into the world of freediving beyond merely diving randomly for fish.
 
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