Freediving beginner questions!

[Mullins]

On an average 4 hour spearing comp I can manage 40 dives (a lot for me) most suunto's I see of other divers there are an incredible 100 to 120 dives. Crazy.

The selling point I try to make to them, is that 40 comfortable and safe dives can often result in more fish than there 120 frantic ones. This way they will listen!

Sometimes you do have to dive pretty hard in comps though. If you're doing 1:30 dive times with 4:30 intervals, you'll lose out to guys who are able to spend more time on the bottom. In deeper water I often find myself doing shorter surface intervals than my dive times, e.g. 2:00 down 1:30 up.

That's not to say short surface intervals are a good thing from a safety perspective. They're not, and the above ratio is quite an extreme example. But it would be wrong to suggest that safety and performance don't compromise each other in this case.

It's the same with depth. Danger grows with depth, but you won't win many comps going to 10m. You just have to mitigate the risk in other ways (training, buddy diving etc).

 

[lambe]

I've been training different things all day and I just got home from the pool now, thank you all for the advices but I'm gonna have to get back to you tomorrow instead hehe nighty night

 

[Kars]

For the diaphragm stretches, check this: yoga-shala.net

 

[cdavis]

Backing up to Johan's comment on 02 recovery being faster than c02. That sounds right for the way I dive today, but not for all situations. For example: Lots of fish around. diver stays down as long as possible, comes up, hyperventilates hard, goes back down as quickly as he can, repeat, repeat. In that situation, I'm pretty sure c02 is blown off so fast that 02 stores are not replenished. The only time I ever had a samba was doing just that.

Connor

 

[lambe]

For the diaphragm stretches, check this: yoga-shala.net

Exactly what I need, been trying it a lot lately but I can't do it that good as him. I can pull my stomach in and hold my breathe but it doesn't look the same:/ I can't make it as far as he can guess I just need more practice

Think I also am starting to get the feeling for mouth fill

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vox9KOxC1ZA&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Swimmer's Unique Tactic to Win Race Hill taylor The Dolphin Man Denied Record[/ame]
That's just amazing! haha I have been trying to swim like that for 2-3 days now Dolphin swim? or whatever it is called. It's kinda hard but I think I'm getting the hang of it. While I'm doing it on my front I often float up kinda easy Maybe I should try adding some weights My biggest problem thought is when I'm trying to swim like a dolphin on my front I just need more speed, I'm not really moving quickly at all

 

[lambe]

How come DYF world record is 265m and DNF is 218? I thought it would be a lot bigger difference in distance:O

 

[azapa]

that's a common point. I thought the same too. I think the deal is everyone new to the sport trains the easy way first (with fins, just cause it seems easier)

after a few months (like 3 or 4??) of solid no-fins training you should get to within 75 to 80% of your fins PB. I made that factoid up, but it seems about right from what I have seen.

 

[Mullins]

At those speeds, the efficiency of the nofins stroke isn't too much worse than a fin stroke. I do think 47m is a pretty substantial difference though!

 

[mystiach]

Lambe, Dave's too polite to say he has done a 232m DNF in comp, it just didn't have WR status Video is below...
As the distances get bigger do you think the gap opens proportionally or does the % change? 47m is around the 75-80%, for most of us that % just equates to a smaller distance...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-whLsWJ9xPQ&feature=channel_video_title"]YouTube - 232m Dynamic Nofins[/ame]

 

[lambe]

Actually azapa, I havn't tried with fins yet. Only doing DNF, that's why I'm so curious about it

At those speeds, the efficiency of the nofins stroke isn't too much worse than a fin stroke. I do think 47m is a pretty substantial difference though!

It is really, it's just me being silly and thought it would be even bigger difference
I'm sorry, didn't understand it really, do you have WR titel or what? I was looking for world records and that's where I found the results.
WR or not, that's just incredible! wow Dave, contrats!

Now was it just me that laughed at the sign "no diving" when he came up? hehe

 

[trux]

I already posted some statistics and graphs about DNF/DYN, and other correlations a few weeks ago in another thread here on DB. The statistics are based on the PB's of more than four thousands of competitors, extracted from almost 35,000 performances.

For DYN/DNF it is as follows:

DYN = 136,5% of DNF (DNF = 73,3% of DYN performance)

And as you can see in the distribution graph, the difference between DNF and DYN rather diminishes with performance, than the other way:

​

A more detailed analysis and more of the graphs are available here:
http://apnea.cz/blog.html?thread=1804
http://apnea.cz/blog.html?thread=1801

 

[pingshui]

I hardly ever dive with fins, no-fins is personally way more relaxing. So while my DNF PB now reached 97m I am still stuck at the 75m with fins. This is probably a psychological thing, since my technique for either one is not too bad. But lets see what happens when I try my first monofin in about 3 month!

 

[nyspear]

This is something I've been thinking about and it's probably been discussed before, but could the lack of disparity between the max distances in DNF and DYN also be attributed to the push off the wall in DNF that would give a relative advantage over DYN, especially in a shorter pool - i.e. 25m versus 50m? Similarly, would DYN gain a relative advantage as the pool gets longer? I apologize if this is a stupid question.

 

[azapa]

dnf is a lot easier in a 25m pool, i can go about 20% further than in a 50m one (another made up factoid!)

 

[lambe]

Very cool information Trux! Much appreciated

Azapa love your made up factoid hehe all thought it seems to add up, think you'r right

One thing I've thought about a lot is the training. Should I continue working out at gym and building muscles? I'm not a very big guy but I've got some muscles for my small body

1.75m long and weigh about 65-70kg.

Does muscles help at all or should I focus on training dynamic/static in the pool? I know that everything takes time to learn and to get better at, atm I'm working alot on my technique with arm stroke and leg kick. I do not know if I'm bad at the leg kick but it feels like it when I'm watching youtube clips of ppl doing 25m dynamic in 1 arm stroke + leg kick. Maybe my long swimming shorts plays a part too Basically I don't wanna do wrong, I wanna train right to get in as good shape as possible for Nordic deep this summer I mean it's a big step from 50m dnf/3min static to anything near worth competing

All tips and comments are welcome!

 

[nyspear]

dnf is a lot easier in a 25m pool, i can go about 20% further than in a 50m one (another made up factoid!)

And is DYN a lot easier in a longer pool due to the reduction in the number of turns?

 

[azapa]

yes, it's really hard to get a worthwhile push off with a fin on, therefore the longer pool actually helps.

 

[trux]

Normally, 25m pool is better for DNF, and a 50m pool better for DYN, but it depends also on your style and speed. Personally, I did competitions and max attempts in both types of pools, and had about the same results for DYN and DNF in both types of pools. And I've set PB's in DNF in a 50m pool, and in DYN in a 25m pool, so do not think it makes a too big difference.

 

[lambe]

What is your style and speed then?

What I think is best for me is to take it easy, be relaxed, yet make strong controlled arm strokes/leg kicks and just try to be calm. Try to think of something else etc.

Do you guys think of anything special while doing static or dynamics?

 

[Kars]

Very cool information Trux! Much appreciated

Azapa love your made up factoid hehe all thought it seems to add up, think you'r right

One thing I've thought about a lot is the training. Should I continue working out at gym and building muscles? I'm not a very big guy but I've got some muscles for my small body

1.75m long and weigh about 65-70kg.

Does muscles help at all or should I focus on training dynamic/static in the pool? I know that everything takes time to learn and to get better at, atm I'm working alot on my technique with arm stroke and leg kick. I do not know if I'm bad at the leg kick but it feels like it when I'm watching youtube clips of ppl doing 25m dynamic in 1 arm stroke + leg kick. Maybe my long swimming shorts plays a part too Basically I don't wanna do wrong, I wanna train right to get in as good shape as possible for Nordic deep this summer I mean it's a big step from 50m dnf/3min static to anything near worth competing

All tips and comments are welcome!

Considering your current fitness level, I would consider your conditioning is already at a nice base level. I think I would reduce the amount of condition training, and shift it towards: strength, endurance, pool training, mental staining.
Look up how aces like Tanya Streeter, Umberto use to work towards their next WR attempts and why. Maybe Dave too can give his general training outline?

As of a Nordic Deep goal, consider ND as a time where you can test your self, in a challenge with yourself.

You're just beginning and it's good to have ambition to do the best thing, but don't be paralysed by the fear of not having the most optimal training scheme. The road in the beginning is wide, as you go you'll find out the particularities of your mind and body and adjust your direction accordingly.

To be fair I just gave some reasonable goals, but if you have more water time and a conductive environment you may very well find yourself exceeding these numbers.

But know where and when to focus your attention.
Formulating your goal like a non specific numeric increasing of your dynamic, static, depth is better than setting a number. Once you know your goal it's good to charter the general course towards that goal noting the challenges and your vantage point, your strengths and weaknesses.

Getting a pair of tight swimming trunks and making a 2kg neck weight is important to learn have a better swim technique and dynamic. <for it facilitates a gliding moment, needed to have learn to relax during and in between swim strokes>.

Enjoy your way!