The momment of your birth signifys your death. Enjoy the time in-between.. Simple.
But what do I know.
But what do I know.
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Freediving Death...
- Thread starterGillz
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I guess everything has to be put into perspective. Many students that I know have a total disregard for their health and that of others. They are heavy drinkers, heavy smokers, live exclusively on junk food and are reckless drivers. I know many people think it's funny, but it isn't. Any illness or accidents that they suffer will have an impact on their family and those around them, and in the case of reckless driving, may cause injury to others.
Compared to all that, the average freediver has a healthy and responsible lifestyle. Of course, there are some freedivers who are not taking responsibility for their actions, and IMO that is wrong.
Lucia
Compared to all that, the average freediver has a healthy and responsible lifestyle. Of course, there are some freedivers who are not taking responsibility for their actions, and IMO that is wrong.
Lucia
Cheers laminar for the reply i have been out in roughish seas like leg it down the rocks fins in hands and try to get them on before the next wave breaks over you and on one occasion we misjudged it and had to head to a beach to get back in don,t know why we got in in the first place really but I have seen it before espacially if you have travelled a bit of a distance its hard not to go in but to actually train for it would probably be a bit like training for solo diving. an organisation could not condone it being done despite it being a wide spread practice
to bill and eric, RESPECT! for your honesty. although the post has turned a bit gloomy, i believe that such real life examples really stress on the message of safety. Although i havent seen similar experiences Thank GOD, i have seen my buddy blackout once, and it wasnt fun, a million things go through your head at the same time, your thinking of your immediate actions as well as a few hours down the road if things go sour brrrrrrr, makes me sick to remember the sights and sounds...I didnt blame him or think less of him at the time, on the contrary i felt responsible to assist him, even mentally after the experience. i agree that a good/safe freediver should not black out in the first place, but having a buddy and knowing your limits could differentiate between life and death in many situations. be it for blacking out, facing a predator, bagging a catch, fighting a leg cramp from swimming against current etc.....
cheers
cheers
GREAT THREAD.......Thanks to all, I have learned a lot and have made some decisions which will impact my entry into this sport. I am definitely the super
competitive type who would push it too far to get the big Grouper on the spear and then hold on for just too long......I am the guy who would go too deep just to be able to brag that I got 60 feet down and speared a big fish...
I once got concussed whilst body surfing in a hurricane swell and was saved by a buddy.....SO I WILL TRY TO STICK TO ONE UP ONE DOWN......
I will put a float on the end of 50 ft of rope and attach it to my spear....I will practice deploying and using my knife.......I will try to assess my tolerance to hypoxia and push towards a static on land blackout to feel for my limits, and I will practice the art of restraint....I HOPE!!
I live in an area of great beauty and wonderful resources and if I get any good at this sport/lifestyle I will try to give back to you guys some of the experiences I acquire, in return for the insights you have given to me tonight. THANKS......Neil
competitive type who would push it too far to get the big Grouper on the spear and then hold on for just too long......I am the guy who would go too deep just to be able to brag that I got 60 feet down and speared a big fish...
I once got concussed whilst body surfing in a hurricane swell and was saved by a buddy.....SO I WILL TRY TO STICK TO ONE UP ONE DOWN......
I will put a float on the end of 50 ft of rope and attach it to my spear....I will practice deploying and using my knife.......I will try to assess my tolerance to hypoxia and push towards a static on land blackout to feel for my limits, and I will practice the art of restraint....I HOPE!!
I live in an area of great beauty and wonderful resources and if I get any good at this sport/lifestyle I will try to give back to you guys some of the experiences I acquire, in return for the insights you have given to me tonight. THANKS......Neil
Because I run the freediving news agent on my website, and watch it regularly, I often see sad news about people dying while freediving. Especially in the last weeks and days the frequency seems to have increased. Only yesterday I saw two announcements of freediving deaths in the USA (a unnamed teenager on Hawaii, and 28 years old Jesse Jacob King of Cayucos, CA).
Let they rest in peace! My condolences to the families and to friends.
In fact, worldwide, there are many more deaths while freediving, but they rarely make it into the news. I saw some older statistics, and there were around 20-30 deaths related to freediving/snorkeling in almost each of the Mediterranean countries, so I guess it makes multiple hundreds worldwide each year.
Sometimes I wonder how many of them were DB members, and I also try finding out whether they were not registered at my APNEA.cz. I hope though that people who come regularly here, or who pass the safety-based entry test at APNEA.cz are little bit more aware of risks of freediving, and are more careful.
I revived this topic not only because I am seeing the climbing number of the tragic reports (which is likely a seasonal issue), but also to alert newbies and remind old experienced divers, that it is important to care about the safety.
Let they rest in peace! My condolences to the families and to friends.
In fact, worldwide, there are many more deaths while freediving, but they rarely make it into the news. I saw some older statistics, and there were around 20-30 deaths related to freediving/snorkeling in almost each of the Mediterranean countries, so I guess it makes multiple hundreds worldwide each year.
Sometimes I wonder how many of them were DB members, and I also try finding out whether they were not registered at my APNEA.cz. I hope though that people who come regularly here, or who pass the safety-based entry test at APNEA.cz are little bit more aware of risks of freediving, and are more careful.
I revived this topic not only because I am seeing the climbing number of the tragic reports (which is likely a seasonal issue), but also to alert newbies and remind old experienced divers, that it is important to care about the safety.
Trux do the reports give nay indication of cause or experiance level? i remember seeing somewherr it was either usually very new or very experianced who maybe had got complacent. Also wonder how many were swb or actual drwonings due to getting cuaght in currents swimming to far out etc.
These last two reports do not tell much, but the teen was likely inexperienced, diving with friends, but apparently they did now look after each other really well. It was probably not due to currents, because the body was found on the place. At a beginner, the hyperventilation is a likely cause, but so far it remains a pure speculation.
At the second report, Jesse King, 28, was likely an experienced guy - good surfer, Coast Guard, but I do not know what his level in freediving was. In the report they speak explicitly about SWB.
As for the statistics that I mentioned - those 20-30 yearly deaths per country in the Med, were deaths officially associated with SWB. However, it is often difficult to find the real cause, so the number may not be perfectly exact.
At the second report, Jesse King, 28, was likely an experienced guy - good surfer, Coast Guard, but I do not know what his level in freediving was. In the report they speak explicitly about SWB.
As for the statistics that I mentioned - those 20-30 yearly deaths per country in the Med, were deaths officially associated with SWB. However, it is often difficult to find the real cause, so the number may not be perfectly exact.
Boy those two news reports really hit home for me. My family and I got back from Hawaii two weeks ago and I spent most of the days in the water with my two teenage sons. I live near Cayucous, so I know where that second fellow was. It is one thing to read about accidents in another country, but to know about accidents at your location really brings it home.
I stress more than anything the one up one down with my boys when we dive. I'm not sure if they could save me, but I know I can get them. I am therefore super-conservative and don't even come close to pushing limits. Basically in my mind I have the attitude that I am diving alone so I take extra precautions. I am trying to instill good habits with my boys.
Thanks for bringing this thread back.
I stress more than anything the one up one down with my boys when we dive. I'm not sure if they could save me, but I know I can get them. I am therefore super-conservative and don't even come close to pushing limits. Basically in my mind I have the attitude that I am diving alone so I take extra precautions. I am trying to instill good habits with my boys.
Thanks for bringing this thread back.
I do not want to take anything away from the tragedies of the deaths, but can we truly put their deaths to the sport of freediving. I've read my share of these stories and almost always it looked that the persons involved were totally unaware of the dangers of freediving because they have never done even a half day introductory course. Divers know how to equalize and can get down pretty easy, but they are not knowledgeable about the specific dangers of freediving. A lot of kids who are in the water all the time can dive pretty deep and have no fear and no idea of the dangers. Even a lot of spear fishers I have noticed had very little real knowledge about freediving up to a few years ago. They just went hunting with some friends.
I personally think you can't really blame that on the sport of freediving but it could be something for us to get involved in. To show that we care, to get the message out there that, just like scuba diving, you need to know what you are doing to avoid dangers and as a potential market. If, for example, every beginner course in scuba diving would mention that freediving is a very attractive way to explore the underwater world when you might not be able to scuba-dive, but you would need a course to understand the specific dangers of freediving, that could potentially give quite a few of extra courses. The same could be done with a lot of other sports which take place in and on the water, just to get the attention of people. That freediving is a beautiful way to spend time in the water, but that there are some specific points you need to be aware of to make sure you do not hurt yourself.
I personally think you can't really blame that on the sport of freediving but it could be something for us to get involved in. To show that we care, to get the message out there that, just like scuba diving, you need to know what you are doing to avoid dangers and as a potential market. If, for example, every beginner course in scuba diving would mention that freediving is a very attractive way to explore the underwater world when you might not be able to scuba-dive, but you would need a course to understand the specific dangers of freediving, that could potentially give quite a few of extra courses. The same could be done with a lot of other sports which take place in and on the water, just to get the attention of people. That freediving is a beautiful way to spend time in the water, but that there are some specific points you need to be aware of to make sure you do not hurt yourself.
I agree with you totally. There are many here that will also agree that it is a lack of knowledge that gets people in trouble. I try to share what I know to young divers and I direct them to DB if they are serious. I think that they would be safer divers if they just studied a bit before trying anything. There is no substitute for a freediving course but personally I think DB and the experienced guys here have made me a much safer diver.
Skip
If you do not want to blame freediving for the deaths of people who died while freediving, then what activity would you tell was the cause? It was the fact they freedived that was the reason they died, and it is not necessary to evade it. Sure, the lack of knowledge is likely the main reason, but frankly told have freediving or spearfishing associations done anything to improve the miserable state of knowledge about safety in the wide public (but among their own members too)? Did they attempt to approach mass-media, schools, governments, city halls, marine departments, and travel agencies, and did they try to get the public informed about the main dangers in freediving? Did they publish any posters, booklets, fliers, or movies that would show the dangers, and the correct handling of safety in freediving, so that this information gets to the masses? Do they distribute freediving safety info on beaches, or at popular freediving spots? Did they try to stimulate the creation of a freediving movie à la Le Grand Bleu, where (unlike in that movie) safe practices are promoted, and distance is clearly taken from the dangerous ones? Do freedivers speak about safety practices when they get the word in mass-medias?
Unfortunately, the answer is practically in all above cases no. Currently, we and our federations do not really care about those who are not part of our community, and do not actively try to get the message to them. So I afford myself to disagree - yes freediving, our federation, associations, and clubs, and each of us - yes we are to be blamed. We did nothing (or almost nothing) to try to change the situation, and just passively wait that people come to us to take a course (and pay us for it) or ask advices.
The only area where I begin to see a very little bit of activity from the side of some freediving associations, is the attempt to inform public about the meaning of diving flags. Unfortunately even that is very weak until now.
Yes, I know we are too few, without the necessary financial and material means, and without the connections to the right people. But it does not mean it is not our responsibility, and that we should not try doing better. If our organisations do not try to teach the kids and the masses, who else do you think is responsible for it? We should stop finding excuses, and telling we cannot be blamed, and we should better start doing something to avoid those unnecessary deaths.
Sure, we will not avoid them all, but if we start spreading safety information in the masses, even if only a single life is saved, it was worth it.
Trux, I agree for the greater part with you, but there maybe is a fundamental issue where we might not agree. I will start that with a very blunt remark to a quote from your previous post.
We live in a time where everybody in the western world has access to an unbelievable amount of information. If you want to know anything about anything, you can find out about it in a matter of days. These deaths are not a recent phenomenon; it happens every year for a time long before Aida was even thought of. At that time nobody did anything about this problem as well.
So why am I, or is Aida, now suddenly largely responsible for those deaths? In my opinion, we are responsible for our own actions. And some basic knowledge about an activity you are pursuing is a big part of it. This does not mean that I think we are doing enough, because we are not, we could do a much better job at making people aware about the beauty and dangers of our sport. But it does not make us responsible in my book.
Human stupidity, the cause of nearly everything that goes wrong.
We live in a time where everybody in the western world has access to an unbelievable amount of information. If you want to know anything about anything, you can find out about it in a matter of days. These deaths are not a recent phenomenon; it happens every year for a time long before Aida was even thought of. At that time nobody did anything about this problem as well.
So why am I, or is Aida, now suddenly largely responsible for those deaths? In my opinion, we are responsible for our own actions. And some basic knowledge about an activity you are pursuing is a big part of it. This does not mean that I think we are doing enough, because we are not, we could do a much better job at making people aware about the beauty and dangers of our sport. But it does not make us responsible in my book.
Yes, human stupidity is omnipresent. And so it is in each of us, and in freediving too. It still does not change anything on the fact people are dying while freediving. Sometimes it is because they risk too much, and sometimes because of lack of information. And still, we as freedivers, as club and association members, do little for improving the situation. There is nobody else who knows more about freediving, and about its risks than ... freedivers and their organizations. So yes, I disagree with you. Although we cannot be accused of the direct responsibility, we also cannot be hailed for trying to avoid the deaths. And I believe if freedivers were more pro-active, at least some of the lives could have been saved.
Perhaps the life of Jesse King could not have been saved - being a certified diver and a Coast Guard, he knew very well what he was doing, and likely would have taken the risk even if he were better informed about specifics in freediving. But perhaps the life of the teen on Hawaii could have been saved if he were instructed about risks of hyperventilation, about SWB, and about the right way of diving with buddies (who were close). I am always pretty scared when I see newcomers hyperventilating like steam locomotives, and wonder that they never heard it is the best way to the hell.
Luckily for myself, when I was young and started snorkeling, I've been instructed that hyperventilation is a bad thing. Unfortunately, the information is not something that you get to easily, unless you are lucky and fall on an experienced diver. On my mind, a brief information about hyperventilation, about SWB, and about safe practices while diving should be part of the compulsory school education. Young people should see it often on the TV, in magazines, on the web, on fliers and on posters at vacation locations.
You cannot accuse a young teen who simply takes fins and a mask and goes snorkeling of stupidity for not taking a freediving course first. OK, he finds out he can stay longer underwater when he hyperventilates, but can we call him really stupid because he did not know he blacks out easier? Are we responsible for his death - no, not directly. But did we do anything to bring the information about safe diving to the masses? I do not think so. Not only we did nothing, but we did not even try.
Perhaps the life of Jesse King could not have been saved - being a certified diver and a Coast Guard, he knew very well what he was doing, and likely would have taken the risk even if he were better informed about specifics in freediving. But perhaps the life of the teen on Hawaii could have been saved if he were instructed about risks of hyperventilation, about SWB, and about the right way of diving with buddies (who were close). I am always pretty scared when I see newcomers hyperventilating like steam locomotives, and wonder that they never heard it is the best way to the hell.
Luckily for myself, when I was young and started snorkeling, I've been instructed that hyperventilation is a bad thing. Unfortunately, the information is not something that you get to easily, unless you are lucky and fall on an experienced diver. On my mind, a brief information about hyperventilation, about SWB, and about safe practices while diving should be part of the compulsory school education. Young people should see it often on the TV, in magazines, on the web, on fliers and on posters at vacation locations.
You cannot accuse a young teen who simply takes fins and a mask and goes snorkeling of stupidity for not taking a freediving course first. OK, he finds out he can stay longer underwater when he hyperventilates, but can we call him really stupid because he did not know he blacks out easier? Are we responsible for his death - no, not directly. But did we do anything to bring the information about safe diving to the masses? I do not think so. Not only we did nothing, but we did not even try.
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