freediving vs. SCUBA

[aqua]

god gave us scuba so why hold the breath?

even since the "modern" introduction of tank and regulator the use of helium and nitrox is around since about the beginning of the century. nothing new.

therefore deep air diving was and is always very unsafe.

rebreather diving is older than oc scuba.

 

[jpelorat]

Hello,

Don't take me wrong, I really enjoy SCUBA and FREE. But for me there are some basic and simple differences. :duh

... 30 meters SCUBA is a high-risk entertainment activity for most people
... Down 30 meter SCUBA is a very high-risk whatever activity (sport, job.... name it)
... 5 meters Freediving is a low-risk entertainment activity for most people (snorkel)
... Down 15 meters Freediving is a very high-risk sport it self

I don't find any sence on trying to compare them, the only similar things are the risks inherent to the enviroment and some equipment. So, SCUBA-Divers enjoy SCUBA, Freedivers enjoy FREE and I'll enjoy both....

Cheers for everyone, :wave
Sigi...

 

[Amphibious]

HUH?

Recreational Scuba diving is not risky AT ALL. I'd hazard a guess it's probably one of the safer hobbies. don't buy into all the high risk hype. Scuba is a leisurly passtime. it is not an extreem sport or high risk activity.

if you recreational scuba diving is high risk you are doing something VERY wrong. :hmm

 

[jpelorat]

Hi,

Say so to anybody that has been under 25 meters for more than 20 minutes and got scared by whatever and got in panic and started to struggle to reach the top. That is a very dangerous situation for many reasons, even thou are a very "expert" recreational SCUBA-Diver. The risk are related to the amount of people that can get a SCUBA Diving certification, you can even have a great SCUBA partner, but if something suddenly happens there is always a risk.

By the way, I think more of the fight between groups started when PEOPLE from SCUBA organizations as NAUI, PADI, CMAS.... started to struggle between them for who have the best training and things like that. It is a shame that Freedivers are doing a mimic of them....

The Ocean is big enough for every one, NAUI's, PADI's, AIDA's, CMAS's and non partisans. Is impossible to share it with an open mind?

Sigi...

 

[Amphibious]

ok, just a question. why did you bring training agencies into this?

weather or not scuba is dangerous or not has little to do with your training agency....

now lets look at your scenario: Why is the diver strugling? Panicing? 99% of all dive acidents are preventable. so unless it's that rare 1%, I'm sorry to say the fault lies with the diver, not the diving.

Recreational Scuba Diving, is safe, low risk, and a fun activity.

It is not Extream, Dangerous, Hardcore, or any of the other labels media and hollywood have stamped it with.

 

[Alison]

Sigi
Anyone who puts their face into the water takes a risk, the whole point of these training agencies is to minimise those risks. Your example of a diver who spends longer than 20 minutes at 25 metres has either planned to do so or is bordering on the incompetent; to my mind, anyone who dives "must" plan each and every dive properly and stick to that dive plan, if things go amis then come up. Ive been diving now for 31 years and logged nearly 6000 dives, in all those dives, only once has something caused any real concern and that was my buddy having a heart attack. Well planned dives rarely go wrong and in general, good divers plan their dives. From what Ive seen of these various training agencies is that they "all" train their pupils to plan their dives responsibly, like Amphibious says, " Recreational Scuba Diving, is safe, low risk, and a fun activity" providing it is done in a responsible manner. And to quote me "A fool and their life are easily parted!"

 

[jpelorat]

Hi,

I wrote about people within the agencies (divers, instructors, operation owners), no the agencies... Every agency is doing great in education. The problem is people struggling for power and the feelind of being cooler than everyone else. Showing your diving ID to someone from a different agency, has any of you ever felt there funny look at you? That's why i ment.

There is danger in any human activity. When you walk on the streets, when you're swimming on a pool. When you sleep in your bed.

What I ment was, SCUBA has more risk than the usual human activities. You are in a different enviroment, you need to be aware on more things than usual to do them right and enjoy. The people make mistakes and more often when there are many factors as in SCUBA, Freediving, Skydiving, Racing cars....

So, I'm not saing that SCUBA "is Extream, Dangerous, Hardcore", i'm just saing that is high-risk activity, you need to be more aware than usual. I love it and i wish every body could enjoy it. I'm sorry if my words expressed something i'm not, my idea is not to argue with any one.

Any how, the point was to share my point of view about Freediving vs SCUBA. There is no vs, they are different enjoyable activities...

Take care,
Sigi...

 

[rigdvr]

you wont find amphib very open minded to your points. But since he is a team member his posts always stand. Only one side to that coin...

 

[island_sands]

HUH?

Recreational Scuba diving is not risky AT ALL. I'd hazard a guess it's probably one of the safer hobbies. don't buy into all the high risk hype. Scuba is a leisurly passtime. it is not an extreem sport or high risk activity.

if you recreational scuba diving is high risk you are doing something VERY wrong. :hmm

ummm Amphibious.. not risk at all???
So you have never encountered any scuba accidents then (that are not related to acts of stupidity)?

 

[Alison]

There is no vs, they are different enjoyable activities...

Well there's no arguing with that

 

[Amphibious]

Scuba Diving is no more risky then driving your car to work.

in almost every case, every dive related accident I have encountered or been aware of has been a product of stupidity, poor education, user error, or bravado.

equipment malfuctions (not related to poor care) and marine wildlife/enviromental risks are very very rare.

 

[JasonWelbourne]

If I have seen anything in the past year it's that the number of hazards that SCUBA poses are numerous and diverse.

Diving in general Conditionally = Barotrauma of the ear, drowning.
SCUBA specifically and Conditionally = Narcosis, DCS, Equipment failure, Effects of latent PFO, Hyperexpansion injury, Oxygen toxicity, death due to statistics, death due to decreased likelyhood of rescue as a result of length of acceptable absence.
Freediving specifically and Conditionally = Blackout, Lung squeeze

These are my own views, and perhaps they are skewed. Are the hazards of freediving numerous and unpredictable? I have enjoyed both, but I still feel that meter for meter, freediving is safer for the average person.

 

[Amphibious]

If I have seen anything in the past year it's that the number of hazards that SCUBA poses are numerous and diverse.

Diving in general Conditionally = Barotrauma of the ear, drowning.
SCUBA specifically and Conditionally = Narcosis, DCS, Equipment failure, Effects of latent PFO, Hyperexpansion injury, Oxygen toxicity, death due to statistics, death due to decreased likelyhood of rescue as a result of length of acceptable absence.

all easily avoidable. don;t have a clue what you mean with the last two, but none of those will "jump out and get you". to be involved in any of those condition it would take a mistake on the divers part. a properly educated recrational diver following the rules has very very little to worry about.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I only now have bothered to read this thread because I thought it was just one more chapter of the scuba spearo vs. the freedive spearo book. Now I see that it started by addressing general tension between freediving and scuba, but has morphed into which one is more dangerous, and finally seems to have settled on whether or not scuba diving is dangerous.

I guess this is no more subject drift than usual, but I'd like to offer my two cents worth on the danger subject. Dangerous compared to what?

Its all relative. I don't have any statistics, but I'll bet that scuba diving has a higher fatality rate than playing baseball or cricket. A scuba diver is in an alien environment dependent on equipment to keep him or her alive. Sure, training and making good decisions mimimizes the danger, but staying under the speed limit and being careful reduces the danger of driving on the freeway, but a lot of people still die on the freeway. People don't always perform perfectly.

And returning to the comparison theme of the thread title, freediving is much more dangerous than scuba. For instance, a slight tangle in line that would be a mere annoyance on scuba could easily be fatal for a freediver. Retrieving a fish from a cave or a tangle in the kelp might be very easy on scuba, but deadly for a freediver.

I do all my hunting by freediving, but I carry a pony bottle in the boat for those occasions when an anchor is hung in the rocks or a fish is tied up in the kelp in deep and/or murky water. That is is because I consider freediving to be much more dangerous than scuba.

 

[JasonWelbourne]

A while back I subscribed to google news alerts relating to diving. What I mean by death due to statistics is that I see everyday SEVERAL stories relating to dead scuba divers. A vast majority of them were people diving in groups, and are initially reported as death due to unknown causes, or in other cases, search operation abandoned after 4 days. Since the principal risk for freedivers is blackout, the freediving community takes care of itself in that regard by telling it's members NEVER dive alone. People follow that with varying success, but that situation will become more easy as time passes and interest becomes more widespread. Still, I don't see many death reports relating to freedivers. The majority of non-scuba diving injuries I see reported daily are head injuries due to apparantly non-freedivers diving head first into the sort of water a freediver might populate but in such a way as to hit a rock or something else.

Now I realize that more people probably SCUBA dive than do free dive on any given day. I see where someone can go with that. But still, the majority of SCUBA injuries I read about appear to be trajedies of misluck by long-term divers. If I were to imagine as freediving casualty report, I think it would go something like this. "Man dies trespassing @ private quarry. Was diving alone. Death due to blackout underwater."

It seems that SCUBA diving is subject to random freak accidents. What are the actual percentages? I have no idea. I read about them by instance. I have no clue how many SCUBA dives are conducted in the world annualy.

On the other hand, and addressing the last item in my previous rant, a person freediving with the safety equipment (a competent buddy) that has been already deemed necessary will be deemed to be in trouble once they have exceeded their normal time limit by a very short amount of time. Their competent buddy will mount a rescue attempt.

If a competent buddy is not a prerequisite for SCUBA, then how long, in comparison to the average dive time, would it take for a rescue operation to be initiated in response to a diver not returning.

I get the feeling that some SCUBA divers feel they are intellectually above the risks, and therefore do not need to make preparations for prompt rescue.

As to all other risks being easily avoidable, it is my understanding that there are a number of topics in SCUBA diving that are not fully understood, and that gas management science has been put together statistically and theoreticaly. It is my understanding that sometimes people develop problems after diving the same profiles for years with no issue, and still within the defined limits.

 

[Almostafish]

Freediving 3 Scuba 1. Freediving scored two in the last half... :thankyou

 

[Polorutz]

lolz... Freediving and Scuba are 2 different things that have almost nothing to do with each other.

I will try to explain... A scuba Diver goes down to see what's on the sea floor, he explores, he watches and takes pictures, he sometimes hunts, Scuba divers take what's around them and interpret it, they are constrained only by their gear and the safe limitations of the sport itself.

Freedivers have almost no time to look around, at most VERY competent freedivers and or hunters can have a one minute bottom time at 15 meters while moving and when they have more time on the bottom they're relaxing, doing statics, hardly moving.

As one forumite has on their signature, "Scuba divers descend to look around themselves, Freedivers descend to look inside themselves".

Both sports are enjoyable and in my opinion equally dangerous if done incorrectly

 

[rfondren]

Wow! Well my intent was to explore the possible rivalry or animosity between FREE and SCUBA factions, NOT to debate the relative merits of either pursuit. I enjoy both. However, all feedback is welcome, and certainly enlightening.

 

[Alison]

Cor! Luvaduck rofl Has anyone gotta ciggie?

 

[JasonWelbourne]

Rofl........