Guernsey 2014

[Rockie]

Here we go again. Nearly finished my spending spree new setup. I am trying to make my gun more powerful. Its a sporasub viper elite and is 1.1m when stood up from floor to end of gun (not spear). Ive googled and read different formulas for band/gun length. I think I have been over stretching my 200mm x 16mm bands back to second notch on the spear (these guns have an extra handle pully to load easier) what I was going to do was pull the same bands back to first notch which is about 3.5 times their length and buy a new single circular band to go under and to first notch. Ive read that sporasub should have the ultimate bands lengths for this gun and have tried to email America. Any ideas or suggestions anyone?

 

[little sarge]

I am sure your going to get a shed load of excellent advice on this from all the guys. Just be careful not to overload the trigger mechanism so it fails or bend the barrel by overloading! Never experienced this but I have read quite abit on this forum about gun set ups. Think a few of the threads actually cover the gun you have too so might be worth a look if you haven't looked already. Good luck

 

[foxfish]

It can be a bit confusing when trying to measure your gun length, generally speaking band guns are measured from the muzzle to the trigger housing but sometimes from the band hole to the trigger housing. Pneumatic guns (air guns) are measured as the total length excluding spear.
So a 90cm air gun is 90cm long, a 90 cm band gun could be 100cm long!
Regarding twin bands, this does not always offer more power or accuracy!
If you fit twin 16mm bands to a light weight, low mass spear gun you might get similar power to fitting a single 20mm band. Loading twins takes twice as long but obviously 16mm is a lot easier to load than 20mm!
However it is very easy to overpower a band gun to the decrement of accuracy & safety!
High mass guns (wood for instance ) with robust trigger units are very often fitted with twins, but 28mm barrelled alloy or carbon guns are normally supplied with a single 18 - 20mm band.
It is interesting to note that even now with lots of high power guns available, competition target shooting (popular on the continent) competitors prefer to use 1100cm single band guns in the open class!
So for more range and power buy a longer gun, a gun manufactured & designed to take multi bands (woddie or high mass carbon) or a pneumatic.
However you can tune your gun to get the best from it, quality thin spear, thin running line with no knots, 18 0r even 20mm power band with dynema wishbone & probably best of all a swimming pool to practice in!
For a short gun like a 90cm, lots of power & virtually no recoil, you cant beat an air gun.

 

[little sarge]

He's suggesting you move to the "dark side"

 

[Rockie]

[QUOivE="little sarge, post: 936388, member: 42737"]I am sure your going to get a shed load of excellent advice on this from all the guys. Just be careful not to overload the trigger mechanism or it fails or bend the barrel by overloading! Never experienced this but I have read quite abit on this forum about gun set ups. Think a few of the threads actually cover the gun you have too might be worth a look if you haven't looked already. Good luck [/QUOTE]
Hi mate. Yes I read that too but then I thought at the minute Ive only got 1 band and it shouldnt have as much pull on trigger as 2 but i am unsure. I never load it out of the water or point it at anyone either. I have still got the older bands that i can use but to be honest i was loosing fish because the spear never went right through. I know if you hit the back bone it wont but this was happening all the time. Ive tried thinner spear, trident tips and normal ones. I then changed the band to a shorter one. That bass i got the other day was shot behind the head to the side of the back bone and the spear didnt go right through and it was about 2m from the end of the gun. I just dont want to lose a bigger fish if i ever get the chance to get one

 

[Rockie]

It can be a bit confusing when trying to measure your gun length, generally speaking band guns are measured from the muzzle to the trigger housing but sometimes from the band hole to the trigger housing. Pneumatic guns (air guns) are measured as the total length excluding spear.
So a 90cm air gun is 90cm long, a 90 cm band gun could be 100cm long!
Regarding twin bands, this does not always offer more power or accuracy!
If you fit twin 16mm bands to a light weight, low mass spear gun you might get similar power to fitting a single 20mm band. Loading twins takes twice as long but obviously 16mm is a lot easier to load than 20mm!
However it is very easy to overpower a band gun to the decrement of accuracy & safety!
High mass guns (wood for instance ) with robust trigger units are very often fitted with twins, but 28mm barrelled alloy or carbon guns are normally supplied with a single 18 - 20mm band.
It is interesting to note that even now with lots of high power guns available, competition target shooting (popular on the continent) competitors prefer to use 1100cm single band guns in the open class!
So for more range and power buy a longer gun, a gun manufactured & designed to take multi bands (woddie or high mass carbon) or a pneumatic.
However you can tune your gun to get the best from it, quality thin spear, thin running line with no knots, 18 0r even 20mm power band with dynema wishbone & probably best of all a swimming pool to practice in!
For a short gun like a 90cm, lots of power & virtually no recoil, you cant beat an air gun.

Thanks for that Mart. If I have 16mm bands on it now I am assuming that I would need a 16mm single so it have the same recoil if they are both stretched at the same %/effective length? I am going to wait until I get hold of sporasub too but I thought I would see if I could get any advice on here. I will also search on here for my gun type like Kerin suggested, thanks

 

[little sarge]

As I said mate I am not an expert on this and someone like foxfish will be able to give you lots of advice as he has been spearfishing for a very long time and has lots of experience. He has no doubt had the same problem as you are having at some point. He also makes guns from scratch!

I found with my beauchat 90 single band stock setup I did not have the shooting distance and power I wanted but it did not stop me getting fish and was a great starter gun. I didn't want to start double banding etc.. As i had also been warned about the safety issues. I bought my riffe mid handle on Jonnys advice and was very lucky he had already gone through all the testing and hard work. He told me which size spear and number of bands etc... I needed and his setup also suits me and my fishing style perfectly. I can't see that I will ever need to change my gun again as I have a powerful gun with a decent range but it also turns/moves very quickly in the water as it's mid handle. So I get the range and power of a large gun but also the manoeuvrability of a smaller gun! Also it's balanced really well as it does not fill up with water and floats once the spear leaves the gun.

On this forum you will get lots and lots of great advice from some top spearos with tons of experience who go out of there way to help people. Some of the advice will work for you but some won't as everyone is different.

 

[Rockie]

As I said mate I ait not an expert on this and someone like foxfish will be able to give you lots of advice as he has been spearfishing for a very long time and has lots of experience. He has no doubt had the same problem as you are having at some point. He also makes guns from scratch!

I found with my beauchat 90 single band stock setup I did not have the shooting distance and power I wanted but it did not stop me getting fish and was a great starter gun. I didn't want to start double banding etc.. As i had also been warned about the safety issues. I bought my riffe mid handle on Jonnys advice and was very lucky he had already gone through all the testing and hard work. He told me which size spear and number of bands etc... I needed and his setup also suits me and my fishing style perfectly. I can't see that I will ever need to change my gun again as I have a powerful gun with a decent range but it also turns/moves very quickly in the water as it's mid handle. So I get the range and power of a large gun but also the manoeuvrability of a smaller gun! Also it's balanced really well as it does not fill up with water and floats once the spear leaves the gun.

On this forum you will get lots and lots of great advice from some top spearos with tons of experience who go out of there way to help people. Some of the advice will work for you but some won't as everyone is different.

Thanks mate. Yes just read 2 posts on here one said dont double band It and another said he has double banded it with 2 16mm. Some say they leak and others said theyre fine. Mine doesnt leak and its accurate like the European lads say who use it for competition spearing. I am going to leave it as is I think for now and just hope I dont lose a decent fish. I did get that 6lb with this set up so should hopefully be ok. Thanks Kerin

 

[little sarge]

Did you change your line from the 40lb you were using to strimmer line with crimps like the guys suggested? If so as long as you get a good shot I should imagine you will be fine mate.

 

[Rockie]

[Qhaven't E="little sarge, post: 936396, member: 42737"]Did you change your line from the 40lb you were using to strimmer line with crimps like the guys suggested? If so as long as you get a good shot I should imagine you will be fine mate.[/QUOTE]
I haven't changed the line yet but its on my list to do as ive got a knot in the 40lb line now too!! I might go to B&Q now actually. I might take this loading thing off because that will slow it down alot too. Hopefully post a nice fish on here soon mate. Good luck if your fishing this weekend. Cheers

 

[foxfish]

At the end of the day it is more about hunting ability & getting close to your target that counts but if you are into gun ballistics then that is cool too
There are different ways at looking at the same issue, mid handled gun track well & have a high mass (less recoil) but an extended rear handle gun puts the target closer to the spear tip & still tracks well but kicks like a mule with a 20mm power band.
Then you have the power issue, spear length, weight & diameter that also plays a part in the penetration & range equation.
Pneumatics, in theory, offer lots of power & a short high speed spear that very often sail straight through the fish & out the other side. (back bone or not)
However they are not every ones cup of tea & are quite expensive to buy. Some folk find them very difficult to load & aim too!
Personally I use several guns & own about 10 at the moment. I use a very basic single band 75 with one wrap of line for night diving, a single band 90 for flatfishing that I usually use unloaded depending on location. Then I use a 90 dry barrel air gun for hunting the weed & open water.
I would like a mid handle twin band gun but I keep giving them away.....

 

[little sarge]

Maybe someone should make you one Mart then you might not give it away

 

[Rockie]

Thanks Mart. Sounds like you got a big gun cupboard I am going to stick with what ive got I think under the theory it works so i am not going to touch it. Ive got the blue 1.5mm strimmer cable now so going to stick that on and go for a swim. Let you know how I get on later. Cheers

 

[Magpie]

Personally my main gun is a 95 with single 18mm's on it and I've never felt the need for any more power. With the size of the target fish and the viz we have over here I don't feel you need anything more powerful as you'd just be taking pot shots in the hope of getting lucky rather than, as Foxfish says, using your skills to get close enough to be pretty sure of hitting the target.

Don't get me wrong, everyone misses, but practicing on things that don't suffer when you don't hit them dead center helps and awful lot.

It may be that your 16s are just futu, they don't last forever.

 

[Rockie]

Personally my main gun is a 95 with single 18mm's on it and I've never felt the need for any more power. With the size of the target fish and the viz we have over here I don't feel you need anything more powerful as you'd just be taking pot shots in the hope of getting lucky rather than, as Foxfish says, using your skills to get close enough to be pretty sure of hitting the target.

Don't get me wrong, everyone misses, but practicing on things that don't suffer when you don't hit them dead center helps and awful lot.

It may be that your 16s are just futu, they don't last forever.

The 16s are new about 2 months ago. Just tried loading it in the water with this 'handle loader' that came with it so I am just going to leave as is. Its obviously powerful enough if I cant load it without using the 'handle loader'. Thanks for your advice guys much appreciated and ive got the blue strimmer line on now its alot better too. Thanks Mart for that advice

 

[Rockie]

Well I went in at the end of bulwer avenue/grand maison rd just up from the sat comp spot. Vis was crap could just see end of gun but didn't give up. Went out to reef that went to 7m and got my first scallop viz was about 3m on the bottom. Perfect bass territory around that reef but only saw a mullet on the move. Going to try a bit of freediving in havelet tomorrow

 

[little sarge]

Magpie and foxfish have both hit the nail on the head once again. Almost all season I have been practicing stalking fish and being as silent as possible in the water, moving slowly and quietly inch by inch. As a result I see twice as many fish as I used too and take more home for tea too. I don't often shoot mullet but practice sneaking up on them and actually touching them with the spear tip. It's surprising how many fish come in when you just sit and wait.

 

[foxfish]

The next period of calm weather should see some flatfish around, they hate a ground swell & you don't get them when it is surfing weather, but when it is calm, especially on a big spring, you will get your best chance of finding them in the bays.
They are easy prey at night but hunting them in the autumn light is my fav pastime...

 

[Magpie]

Not entirely sure what this "handle loader" is but if you need it to load 16s you're doing something wrong. Anyone can load 16s without any major fuss, doesn't matter how strong you are or aren't, but sometimes beginners struggle if they're not sure about it. Couple of blokes I know have said their new guns were unloadable, until I showed them it was easy (and Geoff Capes I am not) and all of a sudden they could do it themselves. You've just got to believe!

Trying having a look on youtube for speargun loading vids maybe?

 

[Rockie]

[Qwouldn't h"Magpie, post: 936439, member: 7678"]Not entirely sure what this "handle loader" is but if you need it to load 16s you're doing something wrong. Anyone can load 16s without any major fuss, doesn't matter how strong you are or aren't, but sometimes beginners struggle if they're not sure about it. Couple of blokes I know have said their new guns were unloadable, until I showed them it was easy (and Geoff Capes I am not) and all of a sudden they could do it themselves. You've just got to believe!

Trying having a look on youtube for speargun loading vids maybe?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't have said I was a little bloke I been going to the gym for 5 years and spearfishing for 15. Ive brought 200mm bands and need to pull them back 700mm to the first notch. I can just get it there but its very very difficult. I tried in the water today and couldn't locate the notch so to be honest ive given up and leaving it as is. I will have a look on you tube though. Cheers Magpie