Have you experienced a Shallow Water Blackout?

[pkotik]

SWB

I never blacked out doing apnea, but once (recently) I had a Sofa Watercloset Blackout (SWB). I was lying on a sofa watching the tube, and when, FINALLY, a commercial came on, I jumped up and head for the bathroom to take a much-needed squirt.
I remember standing in the doorway of the powder room ( which was Eric's private bathroom when he was my house guest) and then the next thing I knew I found myself sitting on the floor, with my son holding my head and saying 'Dad ? Dad ? Are you okay ? "

I went to see a doctor the next day. After examining me, she asked me how long I'd been living in Florida. When I told her I was a newbie, she nodded knowingly and advised me to increase my Gatorade intake, saying she saw this all the time in new immigrants to the semi-tropics. Dehydration. Low blood volume.
If the TV show had been more exciting, perhaps I'd not have blacked out.

 

[ivan]

hi

Bet it scared the crap out of your son.

cheers

 

[w3ac]

I don't know if it was a full on blackout but it was definitely at least a Samba. I really don't know how deep of a dive it was but it was probably around 140-150 feet. I had already done a dive to 120 and surfaced a little light headed but none the worse for ware. My partner and I were practicing blackout rescue techniques so we were both diving deep and meeting each other at around 40 feet. Anyway, during the decent, I noticed three thermoclines and had some difficulty clearing my ears after a while. The chest squeeze was pretty strong but I had done 100 feet on several occasions before and knew this to be normal. Upon hitting the bottom, I looked up and could not see the surface, just a haze above me. This is pretty unusual for clear Kona water but oh well, I gotta go up right? I start my ascent with slow long kick and start the long journey. I didn't get too many breathing contractions on the way up (that I can remember) just a really strong urge to breathe at around 60 feet. No problem, stay calm and keep kicking. I meet my partner and pass him on the way up. By this time my lungs are screaming and I know it's gonna be close. I break the surface and take one breath that I can remember. The next thing I remember is that my body is shaking uncontrollably and that my partner is holding my head out of the water asking me if I'm okay, then what was that? According to him, I broke the surface and took one breath. He asked me if I was okay to which I replied "yeah" then slumped over and started shaking and sinking. He grabbed me about three feet under the surface. I started breathing and was coherent immediately after surfacing again so I don't know what to classify what happened as. On a side note, I normally don't dive beyond 80 feet while spearfishing and would not attempted a dive this deep without a safety diver.

Brad :martial

 

[ivan]

hi

Wow scary stuff, when I get Sambas it is usually mostly what you described the shaking and stuff, but you said you started sinking to 3ft well I dont know I thought when you sink its a blackout.

cheers

 

[cjborgert]

Classic SWB

Originally posted by w3ac
I break the surface and take one breath that I can remember. The next thing I remember is that my body is shaking uncontrollably and that my partner is holding my head out of the water asking me if I'm okay, then what was that? . . . I started breathing and was coherent immediately after surfacing again . . .Brad :martial

But between the breath you remember and the next thing you remember, it's all kind of black, right? Congrats man - you survived SWB! Glad you did!!

It's not how long you were out or how fast you recover that defines it . . . it's the fact that you blacked out, even for an instant, that makes it SWB. From that account, I'd say your buddy deserves at least a round of beer on you for being alert and acting fast. A sinking, shaking diver is usually not coming back on his own. So actually, congrats to your buddy!!!

 

[MTY Freediver]

Fine and Good

These stories are fine and good....but what exactly can we do to avoid such a freaking nightmare?

 

[w3ac]

Yeah, Josh asked for my brand new Tacoma. I told him if I die, he can take over the payments and it's his. Until then, it's still mine! I gave him the first shot at the next Ono that came through. He got it. The guy is my room mate as well as my dive partner so I tend to take care of the bills and don't ask him to pay for much except his half of the rent. I did relay the story in front of his new girlfriend . Needless to say, she has been spending the night more times than not. Yeah I am one of the lucky ones. Most guys sink to the bottm and then it's a body recovery.

Brad :martial

 

[w3ac]

How did the blackout affect me. I know I'm not invincible, but, this may sound scary, I wanna know just how good I could be. I mean with proper training and safety divers around, I wonder if I could amount to something special in the freediving world. Nobody has ever trained me in breathing and kicking technique Equipment wise, either carbons or fiber plastic bi fins (see waterway longblade post) or even learning to use a monofin. Spearfishing wise stay above 100 feet while hunting and again, with some training, possibly hunt deeper for longer. No more balls to the walls stuff until trained to do so.

Brad :martial

 

[ivan]

Nicely Said

hi

Well done bro.

cheers

 

[sturgeon]

SWB is serious business. Even though it's drilled into every freedivers head, I don't believe people realize it's true implications until they actually become a part of it. I've had 1 friend die, saved 2 who were in convulsions sinking, and watched another 2 BO who were saved by other divers. Nobody should have the attitude that it won't happen to them. From my experience it can happen to any level freediver at anytime. All you can do is make sure you have a good partner who you trust watching you at all times (or at the very least anytime you get even close to pushing it).

Brad,
140-150 feet! Are you sure your name is not Ken Lee? That guy's an incredible diver. I saw him in Brazil this year diving 110 ft in almost 0 vis and ice cold water. Upon prompting, he disclosed to me that while training for the 2001 Nationals he made 7 dives over 130 ft. Two were to 149 ft while carrying a gun!!!!!!! With your earlier reference to my fish from 2001, you must be in the close circle of competitive spearfisherman but I've never heard of a Brad from Hawaii. Is that really your name? BTW, in my opinion the Hawaiian divers who compete on the National level are some of the best in the Country.

Scott T.

 

[w3ac]

It is my real name

Hey Scott,
Yeah my name is Brad. I live on the Big Island and I have not entered any big spearfishing contests. I'm kinda glad people don't know who I am. I like being an underground (or water) diver that dives for fun and food. I will enter the local YMCA tournaments if they are held at good locations but if not, I'm off to hunt somewhere good. Yeah Ken Lee is a freak. I knew he was a nut but had no idea that he could or would for that matter dive that deep without spotting fish from the surface. I have never met any of the local legends personally but I do follow the sport and take great pride in the fact that Hawaii has some outstanding divers. Actually, a lot of the best divers around are complete unknowns. I know a lot of guys that can dive to 80+ easily, get some outstanding catches, and don't seek fame or attention. I'm not against posting good photos or going after records, quite the contrary. I wanna see those crazy catches, and if I shoot something that may be a record, I'll submit it for the record. The guys that bother me are the hypocrits. I had a guy critisize me for diving this one spot consistently and for shooting a small Ono. He also told me this crap about not diving for glory but about the purity of it all. He is a decent spearfisher but he is more lucky than good. He has gotten some good catches but that crap about not being in it for the glory, just what I said crap. There pictures of him, blown up pictures, hanging all over local fishing supplies. I also found out, through his own admission, that he dives the same spot I dive 2-4 times a week. I'm lucky if I get there two times a month. I'm flattered that you think I'm one of the freaks but I'm not. BTW I mean freak in a jealous, I wish I could, one day I will, way. The reason I can dive deep is because I'm in good physical condition. I weight train heavily 6-7 months a year, coach high school wrestling 5 months a years, and dive whenever the water is flat. If there is good surf then I'll go surfing. I'm not hiding behind any false names or pretences, I am who I am. Thanks you for the kind words. Come on down to the Big Island. When the current is right, OOOOOH the schools of Ono do swim right in front of your gun. Look me up if you're in the neighborhood.

Brad :martial

 

[ivan]

hi

Scott do you mind if I Pm you regarding some of the divers from the World champs

cheers

 

[loopy]

Hey just noticed this thread

I blacked out doing my first ever wet static
Before that, my max dry static was 3:30 and I felt really comfortable doing that. Then I hit the pool with Wal and thought "Hey if the good guys can do 5 mins easy I should be able to get close"... so after too short a warm up and way too much hyper-v, I'm floating in the pool, checking my watch, about as tense as I could get... then I'm above the pool, looking at Wal and I've lost about 15 seconds. It's really wierd, trying to figure out why you're above water when you should be below...

 

[miguelito]

first blackout experience

About four months ago I was diving the blue hole, a verticle cave on the edge of a shelf that drops off to about 300'. The cave opens on the top of the shelf at 60' and again at 125'. I have dove the hole many times without problems but this particular time was different.
I was nice and warm having already made a few 2 minute dives to 60, 80, 100 ft. respectively. I made another dive to 120 and surfaced in a conservative 130. Then I heard the dubious sounds of the sirens' song, luring me to the bottom. I guess I was hypnotized so down I went. It was a smooth, easy dive to 125. I looked around for a bit while on the bottom and then began my ascent. The ascent was smooth until just prior to exiting the top entrance. Without any warning I ascended straight into a l overhang and bumped my head. This is probably the equivalent of getting the wind knocked out of your stomach. The mind/body connection is severed and panic mode ensues. My natural reaction was to kick harder and end this blunder. As far as I knew, I made it to the surface, was recovering and getting ready to make another dive. However, my partner tells a different story. At about 30' I started convulsing, went limp and started sinking. He dove down, brought me to the surface and woke me up. He said I was trying to give him the ok signal while he was trying to wake me. This is probably the muscle memory. The same goes for what I mentioned about surfacing. I thought I had already surfaced because of the mental procedure I go through following a dive. I guess there was enough 02 left to complete some of those automatic circuits.
The best way to describe it was like waking from a nap and then waking again. I was both frightened and surprised when I woke up in partner's arms; frightened because I knew I blacked out and surprised because I thought I was already conscious.
I crawled into the boat, sat on the floor and felt like checking out. I have only felt this bad one other time in my life and I was in the hospital then. This was my first and hopefully only experience with blackout and it certainly wasn't a nonchalant event as I have heard it described by many experienced freedivers. My lungs were weezy requiring me to take shallow breaths for a day or two. I was EXTREMELY exhausted; overcome by fatigue. I required two weeks for complete recovery. I felt more vulnerable than ever, especially since I pride myself on knowing my limits. It is impossible to know if I would've blacked out if I hadn't hit my head. I have done that depth many times without problems so I like to think so. I probably would've been better off exiting the cave at the bottom and swimming unencumbered to the surface. Who knows or cares at this point? I'm alive. This was a very embarrassing experience but the disemination of information probably outweighs my pride.
Dive safe!
Miguelito

 

[sturgeon]

Brad,

Thanks for the invite! I hear the Nationals maybe held in Hawaii next year (either there or Malibu, CA supposedly). Maybe I'll get to meet you then. If you ever make it to S. Florida, you're always welcome on my boat.

No problem about not doing tournaments. Here in the mainland USA most of the better divers do compete but I know in other places of the World such as where you are and S. Africa (for example), there are plenty of top notch divers who don't believe in it. They're like you, they dive for food and fun or to make a living and tournaments to them are just foolishness.

Ivan,
Feel free to contact me but email's probably the better way (scott.turgeon@fl.usda.gov). Talking about the Worlds, while I was there I got to meet and hang out with a couple of your famous fellow Countrymen (Ian Puckerage and Arnie Piccoli). Although, it was the S. African's and Kiwi's who put the hurting on me out partying after the comp was over. I don't usually drink or stay up until 4:00 am!!!!!!!!

Scott T.

 

[w3ac]

Thanks for the invite Scott. Don't get me wrong gang, I'm not against contests, I just don't enter many. Of the last few local dive club tournaments, two resulted in large tiger shark sightings :head . Both are known to have tigers coming through but these actually buzzed and taxed some divers. The first was at a decent spot. If the current is not raging, and it's been flat for a while and if you go out far enough, there are good fish. One of our local nuts is diving and reports that he and his dive partner hear a grinding sound. BTW Adam, if I heard correctly, weren't you Kips partner that day and if I get any of this wrong please chime in and correct me. Anyway, they brush it off and continue diving. Not much later Kip sees the source of the grinding is a tiger around 12 feet checking them out on the surface. The tiger approaches so close that Kip needs to push it away with his gun. They both head in and find most of the other divers are already onshore having either seen, or heard that the shark was hanging around. On another tournament, two other divers are swimming in the surface haze when one spots a large shark approaching his partners stringer. He doesn't know what kind of shark just that it is big. They hop out and warn other divers. Apparently this tiger was really curious about the divers that day. It approached and even taxed one of the ladies diving in the tournament. Sources say that the shark pulled her lifeguard float to the bottom and proceded to thrash the float all over the bottom while trying to rip the fish off of her wire stringer. How are the other contest in other places? I heard that at this years national, guys had to watch out for Great Whites .

Brad :martial

 

[sturgeon]

Miguelito,

Wow, crazy story!!! I'm glad you're still with us. And yes, it's better to be a little embarrassed and possibly save somebody's life by telling your tale than to save face and keep it to yourself.

Brad,

A white (12-14 ft) was spotted during scouting by 2 divers cutting across the bay in their kayaks (one of the divers was a CA Fish & Game guy). CenCal (hosting council) decided to have full disclosure and announce it at the competitors meeting. You can bet the next morning diving alone at 7:00 am in about 5 foot of vis, I was thinking about that damn shark. The only thing that keep me out there was they say they never come into kelp and most of the diving there was in super thick kelp. When it got scary, was on the edge of the kelp in some of the deep spots I had.

Scott T.

 

[ivan]

hi

You guys are crazy diving after seeing Tigers and great whites :duh. Never met Ian or Arnie but read there storys they put in our spearfishing mag regularly, seem like pretty good guys. I dont really know how to use a email, Ive never been taught :duh . I was going to ask you some stuff about Alberto March as you are probably the man for the job.

cheers

 

[sturgeon]

Worlds

Ivan,

Feel free to PM me then. I'll try to remember to check it.

You won't believe this but the Spanish and Italians both stayed in the same bed and breakfast as I did. I got to eat breakfast every morning with the best in the World. What impressed me the most about all those guys is that they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. Not one of them displayed any type of superior attitude and the better they were, the nicer they were. Pedro Carbonell even gave me the shirt off his back (his Spanish National Team shirt he was wearing when he won this year) as a present. And even though Alberto did bad (if you can call 8th place bad) he was just as happy go lucky after the tournament as before. I got great pictures with all these guys. Even though I was only the alternate and didn't get to actually dive the tournament, it was an experience of a lifetime. Those guys changed my whole attitude about this sport and what it means to truly be a Champion.

Scott T.

 

[w3ac]

Ivan,
We're not crazy. That's part of the fun "Ha! I didn't get eaten today!" Nah it's really not that bad. I have personally seen only one tiger and it came in and left without bothering me. Never seen a white and hope I never will. You on the other hand run that risk. I don't know Australian geography that well but you guys got both tigers and whites down there. True that there are a few tigers hanging around here but the white is very infrequent visitor. Thoughts of tigers, whites, oceanic white tips and makos cross my mind but once the Ono is approaching, it's all about the hunt.

Brad :martial