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Have you experienced a Shallow Water Blackout?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Have you had any experience with SWB?

  • I had blacked out myself.

    Votes: 42 26.3%
  • I was the buddy for someone who blacked out.

    Votes: 16 10.0%
  • It happened to someone I know personally.

    Votes: 29 18.1%
  • I have never experienced it nor heard of it happening to anyone I know.

    Votes: 73 45.6%

  • Total voters
    160
hi

Scott im soooooooo jealous you got to have breakfast with Alberto and Pedro I get excited when I see an article about these guys let alone talking to them :duh .

Brad you be careful shooting those fish with Tigers around they are a mongrel shark which I have found will turn from averagely friendly to very aggressive, I always get out of the water anyways when I see em. Although a big Tiger is bad last time out the reef 5 Whalers where circling me and that is worse then a single big shark We got out of the water right away, your crazy to shoot a wahoo in the vicinty of sharks :hmm

Scott will Pm you tonight be prepared for some questions just ask SaSpearo :D

cheers
 
While diving in the Azores (right in my backyard at that), I shot a grouper in a rock cave about 50 feet, try as I might, I couldn't get him out, I lost track of time. I tied my line to a protruding part of the rock the fish was in and started swimming for the surface following my bouy line. about 15 feet to the surface everything started going black. I remember piercing the surface and breathing. I found my self hugging my bouy but didn't remember how and when I did it.
 
Originally posted by elementalphotos
Ok, first of all, I'm not saying SWB doesn't exsit like in this thread:
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?threadid=16379&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

How did it affect your friends and family?

Whilst my brother is a spearo, he is "against" the sport of just freediving. He can't understand why people would want to risk their lives (not saying everyone does but SWB can happen at almost anytime) for a sport. So I haven't told him that I want to compete one day, or in fact, that I am training. Do you reckon I should?
 
Maybe you should remind your brother that although dozens or hundreds of people die each year spearing, no one has ever died during a freediving competition.

Contrast that to countless other sports, such as skiing, hang-gliding, paragliding, skydiving, race car driving, hiking, mountain climbing, etc... in all of those sports the risk of death or injury is even greater!


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
Nobody has ever died during a freediving competition. Audrey Mestre died during a record attempt, not a competition. Others have died during training, but not in competitions.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
Nicky,

A lot of Australian spearo's need a real wake up call as to the difference between spearing and freediving. It seems to be the thing of the moment for them to attack any formed organisation devoted to freediving - as soon as someone dies from SWB, they weren't spearing they were freedving...

Thank god for people like Sacha who stand up and make an argument
 
Originally posted by efattah
Nobody has ever died during a freediving competition. Audrey Mestre died during a record attempt, not a competition. Others have died during training, but not in competitions.Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

With all due respect Eric, wouldn't you agree that's splitting hairs, just a bit?

Unless one is comparing only the competitive events themselves - e.g., freediving competition versus spearfishing competitiion - it seems that we have to consider all aspects of a sport - training, etc. - when we discuss risk. My guess is that few competitors avoid the training risks by freediving during compeitition only.

As for spearos being negative on freediving . . . that's pretty interesting . . . sort of like triathletes being negative on cycling, or swimming, or running.
 
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Of coarse one would then have to argue that "no-limits" is not really freediving......Eric is right that no person has ever lost there their life during a freediving competition (constant weight.static, and sometimes dynamic) ...if you want to call straping yourself to a machine with brakes, lift-bags, cameras, etc. then go ahead, but I personally have a hardtime excepting that "no-limits" is actually considered a true discipline. Thats tecnology.....on the way down, and especially on the way up, your relying on alot of mechanical parts to work. Unless your using the DRUM system, then things seem to be dramatically reduced, but even then theres room for more than humam error or judgment
 
To my knowledge, no freediver has ever died while training for a competition and following common safety rules, as described in countless freediving courses. Those who have died while training for competitions have died while either training alone, or neglecting obvious safety protocols. The one diver in sweden who died after dynamic apnea was said to have died under conditions of minimal supervision, and there was apparently quite a lag from the blackout to the revival attempt.

Spearfishermen, on the other hand, face great risks even if they follow common safety protocols. The lack of a descent line makes proper safety impossible.

Recreational freedivers are not motivated to stay down 'too long', as is the case in spearfishing-- in spearfishing there are so many reasons why the diver would stay down longer than his intended time, increasing the risk dramatically when compared to recreational freediving.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
SWB....

Seems a good thread to ask if everyone who is working towards major freediving goals has trained/has a buddy who is trained/ in CPR and/or advanced First Aid?
These stories are informative and a tad alarming.
I'm very glad it's here, I have much to learn.
 
Very good question. And "major freediving goals" includes bigger fish and abalone!!

Audrey Mestre was purported to have had personnel present and it didn't help her much, though that's a touchy subject hereabouts... :hmm

I think that while competitive freedivers or those "diving for numbers" don't regularly experience SWB either because they train around it or deny it and thus it never hits the press, the greatest majority of cases occur with those of use out by our lonesomes or diving with a partner that's off by themsleves "over there somewhere". This is particularly true of people that have been in it for a while. Very rarely have I been accused of doing the "you go, then I'll go" scenerio and that's a problem.

The very close friend I lost to SWB was by himself in Palau in the early 70's where trained personnel (or divers for that matter) were not around and in my instance that I can remember, the boat with everyone on board was motoring off and collecting it's ground tackle that I had dove to free from the bottom and would have taken several minutes to recognize and then act on a SWB situation.

At the Keyz Kraze a couple of weeks back, there were two of us that were Advanced Rescue and First Responder types and we had an 02 kit and all, but even then and this is not a knock on anybody, but I sure a sa hell wasn't doing and "you first, then me" jumps and a good portion of the time, everyone else was Hell and breakfast "over there" from where Jay or I was...

So yes, the biggest guilty faction are those that are aware of and most suseptible to SWB.



sven
 
SWB....

Sven;
I understand what you're saying about the Audrey Mestre tragedy; I've been following the story myself out of medical interest.
--You know, your description of a typical dive outing reminds me (and please, with no disrespect intended) of a situation where you have a bunch of people partying and nobody is the 'designated driver'...or 'brains'...I'm not pointing the finger here, as I've been guilty of the same (in a...well...call it 'former life'....as in before having kids, etc...)
--Everyone is caught up in their own activity and nobody is 'in charge'. [[the exception of course being the situations where a formal dive is under the control/jurisdiction of a DiveMaster]]
--- I see this as an opportunity for those of us interested in Dive Medicine/ Diving Rescue to partner up with our friends who freedive.
Kind of a win-win situation. Which leads me to the potential 'win' for the 'designated rescuers'...
We get to freedive last, or arrange a specific person to be our 'lookout' when it's our turn. :cool:
...and get some Freediving tips from the more experienced Freedivers.

--[[Fade in to the sound of papers being madly shuffled while OS signs up for some Rescue classes...a great way to blend two interests/passions....with big gains for all....]]

Someone out there has probably thought of this waaaay before moi!

I like those major freediving goals...bigger fish and abalone..:p
 
Guilty as Charged

OK, I'm one of the guilty parties from last week. As Sven said most of the time we practiced the "same ocean, same day" buddy pairs. And as Sven said we didn't always wait to see where the other guy was. I think spearfishing is more of a solitary sport by nature. People that dive for the numbers or are just cruisin' around are probably more apt to have a buddy near by. I know it's safer to have a buddy right next to you but sometimes it just desn't work out. Even though I'm a DMT it wouldn't of helped if it had been me.:naughty All you new freedivers out there don't do as I do, do as I say.:duh
Jay
 
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Yes indeedee, there you go, from the winner of the Kup ferchrisakes! Major huevos there SpongeJay. :king

Spearing is a solitary deal and if it weren't I don't know if it'd be as enjoyable. Sure some of my most memorable dives have been with others helping and getting help from them getting the fish unfouled and strung, but there's just something about rolling up to the beach by yourself, ideally with dinner, and turning back to give thanks... :cool:

Ahh, well then Ocean you bring up more good and compelling points about the role or task of a dive leader. Lots of years ago while a member of a now defunct dive club in the SF area, a prospective member had to make three dives with other members of the club, those members being on a rotation to do the "checkout dives". While there were certainly instances of the prospective member having no business being in the water, most were so fresh out of the classroom that we'de let them join and kinda keep tabs on them as they went. True that the way to learn then was to go and hang out with those that knew and hope that osmosis kicked in. But a lot of those aspiring newbies turned into damn good divers and friends to this day so I guess not only did we luck out as a Club, but the new member lucked out as well. The practice died out after a couple of years as we just didn't want to drive all the way up to the coast to get stuck with a newbie, especially if we were in the thick of the Club competition and/or the water was really sweet. I can see this happening with everyone, even last week as I took a quick gander at evryone's game, knew I was outclassed, at least nasally and had to get after it. Feel free to say, "Hey!, that sounds familiar!" All of youz!

This gets to a gripe that both Sandbaggin' Styron and I both share, that current cert-ing of divers is laughable at best and a crime in real practice. Your interest in attending a Rescue Diver cert is laudable, and we share that concern. I was helping a fellow Instructor with a Rescue/Advanced SCUBA Rescue course a few weeks back more out of wanting to stay fresh and current than out of a real need to teach and while I'll freely cop to picking up a couple of things from a sub contracted EMT specializing in airway management, that there wasn't a whole lot going on different from the basic and Advanced certs that the students were supposed to have obtained prior to attending. Indeed the class was for me more of a sad expose of the sport diving industry going soft and allowing those that aren't physically capable to strap on gear and go diving. But this is getting away from the core concern of this thread...

Suffice it to say that I'm all about getting educated on the whats and if thens, but the real skill is in the admission to oneself that you're in over your head and/or are pushing that warm and fuzzy envelope. I get to dive alongside others that try to emulate the skills, techniques and catches of those appearing in magazines and videos and it's sobering to try to let them in on a little smarts in regards to their skills versus their intents. Those are accidents in the offing just as there will always be those instances where you'll just "do one more" to get that damn bug waaay back there, that holed-up fish or that last dive to free up the hook. But in my case, luckily, and I might speak for Jay and Bill here, I've been blessed with this little bell ringing thing in the back of my noggin and I don't think that it's available at the counter of the dive shop, I haven't seen it taught in any agency's certs and it's never been explained to me by any mentor. Flowery as it sounds, it's something that the Ocean has given to me and I'm a willing ear. (well, when I can clear them anyways... ;) )


sven
 
SWB...

---Points well taken, Jay and Sven.
As I cruise the Duke University website (Courses for Medical Professionals with a specific emphasis on Diving Medicine)
I have just touched on the very edge of the info that is out there. A connection exists between being in overall good shape and avoiding injury while scuba-or-freediving.
----By extension, the stretching and warmup becomes readiness to hear that inner 'bell' or voice of reason that you mention, Sven.

If nothing else, this thread is a good reminder to be a responsible diver and put the effort out there to be aware of our friends while diving together.

It also makes me wonder if I've been too casual about doing the same...just cruising up to the beach and walking into the waves solo to do the mile or so...I like the solitude too. It's soul food.
 
Well said my friend. :cool: You have to know your limits and know when to say when. It brings to mind the saying, " there's old divers and there's bold divers but there's no old, bold divers". Well at least something like that.
Jay
 
Jees!

By reading this I realise I have been doing some sick stuff out there. I'm actually suprised i'm still here.

I once tried dynamics with the intention of doing it like a dolphin: Swim 10 metres or so come up for 1 breath and go straight down again, I was doing this for 4-5 times. Untill I was totally out of breath
:duh

And ignoring contractions, ohh boy. Plus blowing and eardrum while picking up a lobster. Well some have to learn it the hard way.
 
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