Help to Choose the speargun

G'day Murat how are you? Firstly I am not the most experianced spearo as many here can contest... but I think you need to add a little more infomation... you imply you could be shooting anything from a 1/2 pound fish to grouper to Tuna... thats one heck of an ask for any speargun... from the sound of things you are mostly getting the 1/2 pound fish but you would like to have a bit more power and range when you see those grouper... I am going to take it your grouper probly max out around 50 pound or so? (our max out a tad more then that with a fish over 3 meters long
Are you after a european style gun or something like the Riffe... a lot of people like the Riffes due to the modifications they can safely do... If you want to have something for the larger fish i would have thought you would be considering something around 1 meter as your base weapon... (ummm Andersn, IYA, or Icarus... feel free to shoot me down in flames right here...).
a lot of good publicity has been headed towards the rob allen railguns they have a rail that will help guide your shaft keeping making it quite accurate... and also allowing a reasonable amount of power to be used... have a look at the site www.roballen.co.za and perhaps you will find what you are looking for...

it would be helpful if you posted the range you were after and the $$ your willing to spend... it would let the more experianced guys/girls (not me) know what your limits are...

bit oof food for thought anyhow, good luck!

OK...OK.

You're looking for one gun to do everything and that's a tough bill to fill.

I'm this place's greatest fan of things Riffe, but you may want to look at a euro style gun for what you're doing and your experience. (Man, am I going to hear about this one...) That said, take a look at Deeper Blue's section of DiveInn, click on the shopping thing at the strt page here, and cruise around and see what there is to see. An OMER, Sporasub or a Picasso of 110 cm or so will let you get some dinner and some frustration of fairly equal levels. Don't sweat a reel, or a compact sonar for the things...just concentrate on the interchangability of the rubbers, 16 or 20 mm, the shaft diameter and the tips available for it.

There's a couple of clowns here that like these style guns and swear up and down about them... Whatever. But going to a Riffe, especially a beauty like the MT#3 is going to give you some frustration before it gives you a meal.

BTW... check out www.ebay.com for deals too. there's an outfit selling Riffe Competitor 2XS's for cost and you could learn a bit on that gun for a loooong time.

sven

so you shot a 2" fish...

The Riffe MT3 is an absolutely great tool, and I say that as I have had two of them. They're about as close to an ideal all around gun as you're going to get. The shaft diameters and bands that will fit it, especially with the new muzzle that will accomodate four bands, and that it will accept a reel, make it a real cannon or a great general purpose bazooka. The quiet of it launching a shaft is a real treat. It's my favorite halibut gun, loaded with a 3/8" shaft and 5/8" rubbers.

It's as accurate as you want to be, and like all guns will require some practice as to leading the fish,accounting for shaft and tip weight, yadda-yadda...

The euro style guns are much lighter and smaller in profile, making them very quick and manueverable- nice things on a reef or rocky bottom. You'll hear all sorts of people telling you that they're legitimate open water guns too and that they'll lob a shaft at tuna and such, but after it's all said and done, the shafts are history and all, so... As I said earlier, looking for one gun to do it all is a tough one. While I certainly endorse the Metal Techs and Riffe Mid Handles in particular, you're going to need to really look at the kind of diving you're doing, what the skill level is versus yours, what the prey is and then make an educated choice based on a genuine need. Then go see if it's available in your area and if there are spare parts around for it.

That said, developing your aim on a two inch fish from whatever distance is no way to endear yourself to anyone that knows anything about legitimate spearfishing. That's just a waste of a natural resource. Unless the fish is a listed nuisance or trash fish identified by the local agency(s), there's no need to stick a piece of stainless through it. Go practice on a piece of netting or a submerged float.

sven

Hi Murat,

If you spend enough time reading this forum, there are a few threads which discussed guns in great details, it might help you. Surf around.

Of all the guns you listed I am only familiar with Riffe, but unfortunately I have not shot a Metal Tech before but a friend of mine has a Metal Tech #3, it is still a virgin so even him have not has the chance to shoot it. Damn its been a month already !!! However I can comment something about its construction because I study it thorougly. I do own two Riffes both are teak ones. Since I am impressed with a Metal Tech I ordered one MT #0, it was supposed to be in my hand last week but some shit happened to it...somewhere and I don't want to talk about it.

As our Sultan ( Icarus ) have explained on the better points of a Metal Tech #3, I would want to explain further. Your gun list number 2-5 is not exactly something you can compare to a Riffe because the concept of the design is different and so are the pricing. Riffe Metal Tech was actually introduced to allow cheaper retail price compared to the teak models ( The Riffe Competitor Series- Teak is not that expensive ). Since teak wood come from trees, prices should increase every year because there are less tree to chop. Metal Tech is made from aluminum, therefore it can be made for a decent price because mass production can help pricing down.

Jay Riffe is a perfectionist ( boy, I said this twice already ) and he is also a world-class hunter, everthing he design and manufacture has always been over built. Why, because he knows that you and I will one day want to put as much power as possible in our guns because we want to pursue bigger fish or want to shoot a stealthy fish from far away, this is part of a spearo routine "growing up".

In terms of construction all the other guns you mentioned are not worthy to compare to Riffe Metal Tech ( except Totemsub, cause I never seen one ). For those who has play enough with guns, we can tell a solid built from an average built. If a Metal Tech is a Mercedes 600, the rest is like say a Honda Accord. All serve the purpose as a speargun, you can hunt with them but the feel and built is different.

Jay Riffe built guns the opposite way to all European guns. Since JayRiffe and all of the previous and current world class hunters are mainly after the big tunas , his designs , especially the trigger and the muzzle design has been focused more for big fishes, meaning for big power. All of his guns uses the same trigger mechanism. All the small Riffe guns are just scales down Riffes. His pride and joy is the Island and the Inertia Blue Water.

European guns on the other hand was design initially for small fishes and later people demand more power and thus more bands are installed. Trigger mechanism is the heart of any speargun, it is also the most difficult piece of engineering in a gun, I mean if you talk of something capable of 600 pounds or more of rubber pressure. If you look at how a trigger lock a shaft, you will know how critical a good design is.

I am not saying you can't shoot big fishes with a small 6.5mm shaft Euro gun, many people have had good success but do you know how close are the shots made, do you think there are such opportunity for every hunter, do you think we dive the same rich fish area ? A small 6.5mm shaft with a single flopper has very good penetration because it is thin and slimline. This is the only advantage I see of a Euro gun. Everything of it is small and thus very fast to swing in the water. If a 30kg fish always maintain 5 meter distance from your speartip, I bet you won't be able to nail any with Euro guns, unless some very rare model.

Simple obeservation should be made. The power source of all the speargun you mentioned is the rubber band. Therefore the more rubber the gun can take and of course its trigger too, the more power potential it has...simple. Unfortunately, not all guns are created equal in the trigger, muzzle and barrel strength area. Yes, there is a limit to what kind of power you can put on a gun before recoil and shaft whip come to play. For the Metal Tech #3 with 3/8 (9.5mm ) shaft, it can be powered all the way to 440 pounds of rubber pressure ( 5/8 x 4 bands ) if you get the new aluminum muzzle, a basic muzzle can handle 340 pounds or 4 x 9/16 rubbers. Anything above 340 pounds of rubber pressure, a two hand shot is a must...... for me. This is also the proper method of shooting a mid handle gun, regardless of power. The more hands u placed on the gun, the better the aim is.

If you are saying that you want to a gun that can grow with your needs, I think the Riffe Metal Tech is the only way to go if only one gun is the criteria. You can always go for Mt #2, instead of #3. Shorter swing faster. The Riffe Metal Tech will come with the enclosed track soon and I heard the enclosed track module can come as a kit, this mean 1 gun can be used with 2 enclosed track, one for 7mm shaft and the other for 8mm shaft..... as required. All you need is to buy extra enclosed tracks, buy the gun in the standard open track, buy 2 shafts, one of 7mm and one of 9.5mm. The 8mm comes as standard. There is no other gun I know of that can be this flexible.

As for your listed Euro guns, if it comes with 2 bands/rubber, that will be the way you are going to have it for the rest of its service life. Why, cause 2 bands of 16mm is about all the maximum power a 7mm shaft can handle.

Another simple point to observe is that, if something which retails supposedly "expensive" ( Riffe ) can sell so well, there is only one reason.... it is worth the money and it is a good product. Remember a speargun is not a fashion goods, quality and function is the selling point.

If I were to point out honestly, European make many fine cars , unlike many American brands but as for a speargun...... American Riffe is a good choice.

Don't worry I am a neutral person, not European not American.


Have Fun,
IYA

Accuracy Issue

Hi Murat,

Since u mentioned a 2 inch fish as a based for ur accuracy test for a gun that u think is accurate enough, I am going to show you something similiar for ur reference. The 2 photos I am going to attach might disgust some people but since I shot those fishes specificaly to eat, I do not feel any guilt. Also to note that these rainbow runners on the photos are about 40 cm (16") long and and 9 cm/3.0" high(wide). This is the average "very decent" size for this species that I will encounter in my water, so please do not flame me boys for shooting something u guys think are too small. :naughty

These fishes are taken close to one of the navigation buoy (float ). They usually roam around in 15 feeet/5 meters to 30 feet/10 meters of water depth. They will come in numbers and swim under me for a few seconds. This fish in my waters do not stay still 4 us to shoot. They come and go. If I spot them like 4 times in 30 minutes, I feel I am lucky enough. My water visisbility is usualy no better than 20 feet ( 6 meters ). I am happy with what my water has to offer and I try my best to take take sea food out of it. If I look at foreign books, I read that Rainbow Runners in certain part of the world can grow to 4 kg or more, I realy feel envious and it sure sounds like a dream.

I shot these fishes with my 124cm Riffe Standard #2, using 8mm Hawaiian shaft and 3 x 9/16 bands. The Metal Tech #3 is very similiar is length ( 127cm ) but it is more of a mid handle and must be a faster swinging gun. Why I used 3 bands is because I like fast shooting shafts. I am a lousy stalker on breath hold and I shoot as far away as my gun permits, if I wait too long to shoot, I probably will faint from holding my breath too long. More often I have 2 chase a fish instead of waiting.

I just got it on Saturday afternoon for my own eating and if u see that they are ice frozen, they been on my fridge for the past 8 hours, after my return trip, Sunday afternoon. Now its 02:30AM Monday my time, my usual sleep late habit. I shot a total of 5 fishes in about 2.5 hours of floating, I ate 3 at the island and now I have 2 to bring home. I love eating them.

The reason I am showing you these fishes shot is for a simple reason, I want to show you that a even a lousy hunter like myself can benefit from an accurate but powerful Riffe. All my shots are taken from at least 3 meters away ( 10 feet ) or further, I can't get too close to this over exploited fish ( in my water ).

The first photo u will see below is a shoulder shot. I was higher than the fish cause I can't realy go deep on breath hold. The shot made was from the left of the fish on the shoulder to the middle of it spine on the right side. I was using a 400 lbs mono.

The second shot was made from right to left of the fish. It was a tail shot because it was running away the moment I tried getting close, since with 3 x 9/16 bands I have a good range, I managed to get the tail even when I aimed at mid body.

U must understand that any good speargun is accurate horizontal wise, left/right impact. A vertical shot ( up/down ) is how u practice because the law of gravity come in to play.

I don't know if other people find Rainbow Runners on the run being an easy shot, to me it is quite challenging. If a gun I use can track and shoot this small 40 cm fish, I think it deserve to be considered "decent-tracking" and accurate enough.

Please don't mind the clear plastic I used to cover the fish on the photo, it is not a photo but I scanned the frozen fish on my scanner.... ha ha ha :duh

If I can go thru all the trouble teasing the forum readers on the Riffe-Omer tournament "rumoured' prizes, I don't mind showing a friend from Cyprus some photos if it might hel you.

Photo No 1 - Rainbow Runner

Left to right shot.......

Photo 2 - Rainbow Runner

Right to left shot........

OK.... I am a little crazy.... maybe... ,
At least I shoot to eat ........

Hi Murat,

I've just seen your posts about choosing a gun, and in my opinion the euro guns have evolved to be what they are because thats the best type of gun for our waters where as riffe have done the same for the different waters/species of fish in the americas - I know they are excellent guns (don't flame me sven!) but I think for these waters and fish and your money a euro would suit you better.

I use an escaplez concept camoflage 90cm gun with a 130cm spear and 16mm bands for the average hunt and if I think I'm feeling lucky I put on 20mm bands and mount a reel on.
To be honest the basic 16mm bands are find for fish upto and over 10 pounds and mounting the 20mm and reel would be fine up a fish that would make you stain your suit!


If you want to try out my gun drop us a line, I just think that you need to learn on cheaper gear until you are sure of your hunting style and needs before spending 500 quid!
As I said you're welcome to try out my gun,
dive safe,

My thoughts exactly, Lou.
Welcomr to the fold.

sven

Hi Murat,

I don't know how much more accurate you expect for a gun that shoots 3 x 9/16 (14mm ) bands. Take a look at the second photo. The hole there was made by a 8mm shaft on the fish tail. If you use that hole size as a reference, the tail area of the fish is not more than 4-5 cm (+- 2" ) tall and the fish was swimming too. The only other more accurate gun I ever tried was the pneumatic but not so much power.

The only other fish which is close to 2" x 2" in size is called Sergeant Major in my place. The stripe colour of the fish resemble a military uniform ranking code. It is a reef decoration fish, no eating this one.

This rainbow runner is about the smallest size of fish I shoot for good eating cause the other small size good eating species is only like 6" ( 15cm ) long and 1.5" ( 3-4cm ) tall and 1 cm thick, not worth loading rubbers for them. The amount of meat I get is not equivalent to the amount of energy I spend loading the gun. I shoot them with my wallet....much more effective and never miss.

Riffe Metal Tech is much heavier than any Euro gun because the construction is very-very solid. You can shoot with 2 x 9/16 bands on the MT3 if u use 7mm shaft, there won't be any significant recoil......for me. Even being a mid-handle a 127cm MT3 can not swing as fast as a 130cm Euro gun because Euro gun is very-very light. MT3 has more overall volume than a same size European.
We know Archimedes principle of buoyancy, a heavy gun need bigger overall volume to be able to stay "decently neutral" in water, more volume means more drag when u swing.

However MT3 has all the growth potential you will ever need but might not be the best gun for you for the time being. I am more concern over the initial request that you need a gun that can do A-Z, since MT3 is on your list, so I lean to it.

I hope you have luck in finding a suitable gun, but If I hear that you have fishes above 50 pounds in the MED......yum..yum...you may need big power some day.

Have Fun Huntin'
IYA