Herbert Nitsch Recovering Well after achieving World Record depth

[mystiach]

This shows a bit (surfacing after deco).

Chris, more than happy to help. Blog will contain recipe for banana bread.

[ame="http://youtu.be/9RXrzHvpNwI"]244 Meter: Tieftauch-Weltrekord endet im Krankenhaus - YouTube[/ame]

 

[freeln2]

Sorry, about "the roots"...

Like the bellstone that is used as a clapper in the bells of island churches, the naked diver's bellstone connected the naked diver to his God and to his nobel forebears. To be hoisted to Paradise, God's safe airy world above, the naked diver on the seafloor had only to yank on the bellstone's rope, the motion identical with that of the naked diver's papas, his island priest, as he rang the church bell, welcoming the faithful to prayer.

(c) from an editorial review of the book:
Kalafatas M. THE BELLSTONE: The Greek Sponge Divers of the Aegean. University Press of New England, NH, 2003.

 

[Mullins]

In other news, I'm planning to break the 1000 feet mark first. I'm not inviting judges, but a mate will blog about it. We'll let you know once I succeed!

I'll be in charge of gear maintenance.

 

[pehtran]

You're aware of who that is you're quoting?

Since I am more from climbing world then from freediving I think I know who I was quoting. It is the person who also said that each of us has the right to climb in his or hers own way. He also said that he does not try to set any rules. He also said that any climber can take the mobile phone up to the mountain. But he choses to leave it at home. And Everest could be ascended without oxygen many years after the first human steped on its peak. I do not recal someone beieng 250 meters deep CNF.
He is also the one who only values adventure and by his words for adventure you only need three things: the difficulties that need to be overtaken, the danger of death and the exposure to the elements.
So you can be an adventurer or you can chose to be a sportsman. But it is pretty funny from a sportsman to try to comment on adventurers achievements.
I am not trying to convince. I would only like that those who think there is something unethical about something someone does keep silent if this someone does not put in danger anybody but him or herself. It is just his adventure and he has the right to it.

 

[Mullins]

You don't consider Herbert a sportsman then?

 

[chrismar]

I'll be in charge of gear maintenance.

Oh god.


Pehtran,
Do you think Messiner would consider this dive a success by his standards?

 

[trux]

Pehtran,
Do you think Messiner would consider this dive a success by his standards?

Personally, I think think that yes. Messner lost many times fingers, teeth, buddies, and I believe even his brother during his expeditions, but I believe as long as he climbed the mountain, it counted. So I would not exclude that for Messner Herb's dive could be successfull even if he never returned back.

 

[pehtran]

Do you think Messiner would consider this dive a success by his standards?

Interesting question. Difficult to say. On one hand this dive is packed with technical equipment and on the other it is adventure into unknown with uncertain outcome. I think it is about using technical aids in places where technical aids are the axcuse for someones poor abilities. If it is possible for a human to reach the peak of Everest without the help of oxygen, sherpas and fixed ropes then using all this is not an adventure. But to reach such a depth without technical aids is (for now) impossible so I very much respect the project and the way it was carried out.

 

[Haydn]

Hi Pehtran,

I love that idea. Its his adventure so let him make the rules. That's a great vibe.

I don't quite get the comparison with Reinhold Meisner. Yes he climbed without assistance, but Everest was a well know mountain and climbing it was a very established procedure then. What Herbert is doing is more related to climbing pre Hilary and Tenzing.

Freediving is also encumbered with the relationship between assisting (which is not accepted) and escorting which is accepted. (I am excluding Supporting here, but Ranulph Fiennes discusses that very well). Reinhold had neither assistance nor escort. This makes his effort a great adventure

Freedivers blatantly scorn diving alone. Could you imagine if Herbert went to sea and did his dive 800 foot dive all on his own. Would he now be dead? OR would he have got himself back to shore to receive medical attention. As long as his flag was at 800 feet and with depth guage and photographic evidence, he would have returned as conquering hero.

Aida would say it wouldn't have counted.

To me Herbert is an athelete/ explorer/ adventurer of the highest calibre in an arena little understood. He has entered the equivalent of the Death Zone and has brought back substantial experience of that encounter. It's dangerous. He will go back again and maybe modify his approach. We can all see that the 1000 feet dive is still there. Maybe 800 feet is the Hilary Step. Herbert will figure it out, it's his adventure. Maybe it should be his rules.

Of course, the truth is, until we know more, he might only have failed on protocol and he MIGHT have had assistance for the last few meters. Then again, he MIGHT have simply been escorted to the surface by his safety divers, before receiving the assistance.

 

[trux]

I think also that all this is little important. The most important is that Herbert is safe and recovering well.

BTW, I see on the video that Herbert repeatedly blows a lot of air just after surfacing without even rasing the head from the water. To me it looks like he used the regulator already in that moment, because I do not know how else he could blow out such big quantities of air. Of course, that's just a speculation. Let's hope we get a more detailed explanation of what exactly happened later.

 

[pehtran]

Yes, that is how I see it: when you are a pioneer, you make your own rules.

 

[Haydn]

Actually, having never climbed a mountain myself....Do climbers (especially Everest) still claim to have climbed the mountain, even if they are carried down to base camp? Or would otherwise have been unable to survive the retreat without support/ assistance/ escort.

 

[pehtran]

Yes, there are numerous Everest climbers these days who claimed to have climbed the mountain even though they were carried not only down but even up some of them.

 

[efattah]

George Mallory and Sandy Irvine attempted Everest in 1922 (31 years before Hillary). They both died. After decades of research, the conclusion now is that Mallory did reach the summit and fell to his death during the descent.

So, in some people's minds Mallory was the first to summit Everest. But Herbert not only survived but he is making a full recovery.

I do however have a problem with many climbers, who summit, and then are carried down the entire mountain by brave people risking their lives. I recall one such woman who summitted K2. She was carried down the entire mountain by people risking their lives for her. She never once said thank you, all she kept muttering was 'I made it, I made the summit...'

 

[FreeRestriction]

George Mallory and Sandy Irvine attempted Everest in 1922 (31 years before Hillary). They both died. After decades of research, the conclusion now is that Mallory did reach the summit and fell to his death during the descent.

So, in some people's minds Mallory was the first to summit Everest. But Herbert not only survived but he is making a full recovery.

I do however have a problem with many climbers, who summit, and then are carried down the entire mountain by brave people risking their lives. I recall one such woman who summitted K2. She was carried down the entire mountain by people risking their lives for her. She never once said thank you, all she kept muttering was 'I made it, I made the summit...'

I feel like theres a difference between claiming to be the first to touch a specific peice of land and dying on the return trip vs saying you can freedive 800ft on a single breath. If the person touched the soil they touched the soil. If his goal was to be the first human to be on his own breath at 800ft and not be dead then he did it just like Mallory made it to the top of everest. But if his goal was to freedive to 800ft then he didnt do it in my opinion.

 

[Unclejake]

In other news, I'm planning to break the 1000 feet mark first. I'm not inviting judges, but a mate will blog about it. We'll let you know once I succeed!

I'll be in charge of gear maintenance.

Oh god.

I can do the drugs tests.

This should work out fine.

 

[Mr. X]

George Mallory and Sandy Irvine attempted Everest in 1922 (31 years before Hillary). They both died. After decades of research, the conclusion now is that Mallory did reach the summit and fell to his death during the descent.

So, in some people's minds Mallory was the first to summit Everest. But Herbert not only survived but he is making a full recovery.
...

I don't think that is the conclusion (unless you've heard something new?), at least not according to the books and documentaries I've seen (I'm fascinated by this story). The jury is still out. American climber Conrad Anker managed to free climb the infamous step; while finally silencing nay-sayers by proving that it could be free-climbed -he concluded that it was unlikely that Mallory would have managed it (no ego there!). However, free-climbing was not the normal mode of mountaineering in those days - direct aid was. People often underestimate the old climbers (& their gear), they were fit and light and strong, and brave & cunning, they also used techniques and tactics rarely practiced these days - such as "combined tactics", threads, real chock stones, stacked pitons, etc. Apparently Anker initially rated it at 5.10 (UK XS 5b/5c) - but opinion now is that it might only be 5.9 (UK Hard Very Severe 5a), which is within Mallory's known climbing ability.

My heart says Mallory, & perhaps Irvine, made it to the top but my mind says they probably didn't. BS means nothing to mountains. I think Mallory probably made a fatal mistake in not taking experienced, strong climber Odell rather than fellow Oxbridge man Irvine.

I think (personal theory, other interpretations are possible & possibly better) Odell may have accidentally caused Mallory's death by calling out to him - Mallory was alone, possibly snow blind and probably in bad shape and, I suspect, probably walked desperately and fatally towards where Odell was calling him; however, Odell was down below, not on the ridge-line that Mallory should have descended.

Yes, Everest today probably should not be used to teach Alpinism 101.

 

[efattah]

If you visit EverestNews.com, you'll find the very recent evidence that Mallory did make it to the top. However Mallory did not need to climb the Hillary Step, because Mallory was attacking Everest from the North Side, not the South Side like Hillary did.

 

[apneaboy]

Hi Pehtran,

I love that idea. Its his adventure so let him make the rules. That's a great vibe.

I don't quite get the comparison with Reinhold Meisner. Yes he climbed without assistance, but Everest was a well know mountain and climbing it was a very established procedure then. What Herbert is doing is more related to climbing pre Hilary and Tenzing.

Freediving is also encumbered with the relationship between assisting (which is not accepted) and escorting which is accepted. (I am excluding Supporting here, but Ranulph Fiennes discusses that very well). Reinhold had neither assistance nor escort. This makes his effort a great adventure

Freedivers blatantly scorn diving alone. Could you imagine if Herbert went to sea and did his dive 800 foot dive all on his own. Would he now be dead? OR would he have got himself back to shore to receive medical attention. As long as his flag was at 800 feet and with depth guage and photographic evidence, he would have returned as conquering hero.

Aida would say it wouldn't have counted.

To me Herbert is an athelete/ explorer/ adventurer of the highest calibre in an arena little understood. He has entered the equivalent of the Death Zone and has brought back substantial experience of that encounter. It's dangerous. He will go back again and maybe modify his approach. We can all see that the 1000 feet dive is still there. Maybe 800 feet is the Hilary Step. Herbert will figure it out, it's his adventure. Maybe it should be his rules.

Of course, the truth is, until we know more, he might only have failed on protocol and he MIGHT have had assistance for the last few meters. Then again, he MIGHT have simply been escorted to the surface by his safety divers, before receiving the assistance.

Some good calls on this thread. I like the above one.

Herbert did the No limits dive, he used some technical equipment like the sled, like climbers wear boots. He did it on one breath of air from the surface.

He came back up, took another breath. It isn't to be compared with his or other peoples records in other disciplines, it is No limits.

Job done.

Well done, get better soon buddy.

 

[freeln2]

Right, Herbert just did it.

P.S. Of course, just in my humble IMHO of an alpinist (when was young and then a retired profy in space navigation & control
Guess, NASA and USAF would also agree that the mission completed.