How messed up can a country be??

[Okis]

If you and you family will go to Phuket for vacation in future then send me a message and i will let you borrow a gun and go out for some spearing together.

I can understand that this stuff gets you frustrated and country is very protecting of its citizen and what we do but its still probaly the best and safest place compared to most other countries for you to have a family and raise your children.

I'm lucky i didnt get into freediving and spearfishing until after i moved down to southeast asia! / Sebbe

 

[SubSub]

@Woohoo
Let this be the last political comment in the tread... It is easy to get sidetracked like this when frustrated, but we all know how things can derail in political threads. This was after all a thread about the impossibility to own a speargun and use the ditto in Sweden.

We never had colonies, etc, but never the less we have a long history of welcoming foreigners to our country.

The social democrats have an old saying, a saying that explains the basic mentality of the Swede: "Do your duty, claim your rights". It has been a given thing for Swedes to live and act accordingly.

The thing that has changes gradually over the last 30 or so years is that the people coming here lacks that mentality, and who can blaim them really? They come from shitholes with no proper legal system, wide spread corruption, and that's all they know. They simply don't know the same thing we do about working hard, pay the highest taxes in the world and get it back from society when you need it.

Therefore it is utterly important passing that fundamental part of the Swedish society on to people coming here, and enforcing that they comply or leave. This has not been done in any extent at all, the newcomers don't have to learn the language, they don't have to get a job, they can commit crimes without risk of beeing kicked out, they don't even have to get a place to live, it's all served.

As a result of this failed politics a lot of people has milked our society for a long time, taking part of all the benefits but not contributed at all. The most problematic aspect of it all, and the thing that has made this go on for such a long time is that as soon as people talk about it the racist flag is raised and the idiots starts shouting. It has been political suicide to adress the matter. Just now, when the right wing extremist party is moving forward strongly the other parties have started to get closer to the issue, but waaaaay to slow and meekly.

I welcome each and everyone to my country no matter of skin color and religion as long as they do what I do. Behave, work hard, pay your taxes and don't engage in criminal activities worse than speeding.



@ Okis.
Thanks a lot! Will for shure do if I manage to get myself to Phuket! Cheers mate!

 

[Mr. X]

I was thinking on the speargun issue today. How I would go about changing something like that if it were an issue in the UK? First thing would be to contact your MP, MEP(s) and political parties and find out where they all stand on the issue - let them know where you stand and ask them for their support. If you find support (you might be pleasantly surprised) then back those concerned in as many ways as you can. If you find some actively against you, then back their opposition. Other hunters and their organizations/magazines might be supportive - in the UK the popular Field Magazine and its readers were very supportive when we campaigned against proposed EU changes - anglers & SCUBA divers perhaps less so (although many/most spearos are keen anglers too). In the UK, there is also the pro-hunting Countryside Alliance, in the USA the NRA - perhaps Sweden has something similar?

In the UK, we also have an on-line petition system -- if a petition gets more than a certain number of signatures then MPs will have to discuss the issue, or something like that; but its up you to publicize the petition. Does Sweden have anything similar?

You don't need a majority to succeed, when elections are close, politicians are motivated to do things that will gain/keep a few votes - we've seen that happening in the UK recently.

It might help if Sweden had some business interests in spearfishing/diving (e.g. Swedish steel used in spears, dive knives, tourism).

 

[SubSub]

I was thinking on the speargun issue today. How I would go about changing something like that if it were an issue in the UK? First thing would be to contact your MP, MEP(s) and political parties and find out where they all stand on the issue - let them know where you stand and ask them for their support. If you find support (you might be pleasantly surprised) then back those concerned in as many ways as you can. If you find some actively against you, then back their opposition. Other hunters and their organizations/magazines might be supportive - in the UK the popular Field Magazine and its readers were very supportive when we campaigned against proposed EU changes - anglers & SCUBA divers perhaps less so (although many/most spearos are keen anglers too). In the UK, there is also the pro-hunting Countryside Alliance, in the USA the NRA - perhaps Sweden has something similar?

In the UK, we also have an on-line petition system -- if a petition gets more than a certain number of signatures then MPs will have to discuss the issue, or something like that; but its up you to publicize the petition. Does Sweden have anything similar?

You don't need a majority to succeed, when elections are close, politicians are motivated to do things that will gain/keep a few votes - we've seen that happening in the UK recently.

It might help if Sweden had some business interests in spearfishing/diving (e.g. Swedish steel used in spears, dive knives, tourism).

I appreciate your pondering around this, I'm gonna look into the political alternatives to change things around, but I have little hope things will change.

1. Sweden (most of it is east coast, Baltic sea, filthy, bad viz, cold) has never... ever had a spearfishing community. Ffs, we almost don't have a freediving community outside of the swimming pools. We actually don't even have a freediving course going deep on the whole east coast (that is 2400km). Imagine how small the interest is for spearfishing...
We have some nice waters on the west coast but I have no clue what so ever about the scene over there and as far as I know there are no forums or such to investigate it further.
2. The steel industry in Sweden produce 4.600.000 tons of steel annualy. The volume consisting all spears and diveknife-production together on a worldwide scale must be negligible. Not much for the industry to get exited for. I mean, we have about 2mil. registered weapons, mainly rifles. Better volumes there.
3. It is much easier to maintain a legal situation than to try to change one... it's difficult to change laws even if you have broad support backing you up. Imagine try to change the Swedish gun regulations. Don Quijote.
4. I run my own company putting in +60hrs a week, other than that I have a family and all that comes with it, i.e. my available time and energy to put into such a endeavor is limited no matter how much I want it.

It is what it is.

 

[Jakelol]

A little unfortunate for you Bill, but the US is one of the very few countries around the globe where that could happen to you. Most countries have free healthcare in one way or another, maybe not equally capable or advanced, but free.

But to the most important matter....we're not allowed to spearfish, or to keep a speargun!

You can own a speargun in Sweden as long as it not longer then 50cm but you cant hunt with it in Sweden.

 

[SubSub]

You can own a speargun in Sweden as long as it not longer then 50cm but you cant hunt with it in Sweden.

Yeah, and what you gonna do with it? Put it up on the wall and fantasise about all the great things you could do with it... if it was bigger... and if it was legal to use it?

Edit. Ok, I'd still use it, the small size disregarded.

 

[Mr. X]

Ironically a short speargun (50cm) would be easier to misuse as a weapon or cause an accident than would a longer speargun, as the user can more easily shoot himself/herself. Short spearguns are appropriate in poor viz, on reefs and wrecks. Pneumatics are "not my cup-of-tea" but with a 50cm limitation it might well be my choice. I met a British former spearo and that was the only speargun he ever used, 50cm pneumatic. I think he dived mainly/only around Portland Harbour.

SubSub, it may be enough to just "start the ball rolling". I put off teaching my son an activity that will likely become his career now, because I dreaded the amount of time it would require of me. In the end, I spent about half an hour showing him how to get started and find help, he asked me fewer than 10 questions and then he taught himself, to a high standard! My dread had been for nothing.

 

[SubSub]

Well, it's 50cm and a few other restrictions;
- max 1 band
- no pneumatic guns

I'll look in to the question when I have a few min to spare!

 

[Mr. X]

Jeez, sounds very specific. Red tape.

 

[misterlizard]

I live in Sweden, near Gothenburg (moved here from England, love it). The water is warm in the summer and autumn, the visibility is often excellent, but the no-spearing law sucks. Does anybody know if I can use my pole spear?

 

[SubSub]

I live in Sweden, near Gothenburg (moved here from England, love it). The water is warm in the summer and autumn, the visibility is often excellent, but the no-spearing law sucks. Does anybody know if I can use my pole spear?

Unfortunately not. The Swedish law does not consent with any form of uv hunting.
You can own a tiny gun but you can only use it for target shooting. Sucks. You can’t even keep a proper gun in the house for the summer travels. I tried but the popo said NOOO!

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Really? You can’t even have one in your house? That sucks.

Of course in the US you can have AR-15s stacked from floor to ceiling in one room and large-capacity magazines stacked from floor to ceiling in another and that sucks even more, but it seems rather extreme that you can’t own a speargun to take on a trip out of the country.

 

[SubSub]

Really? You can’t even have one in your house? That sucks.

Of course in the US you can have AR-15s stacked from floor to ceiling in one room and large-capacity magazines stacked from floor to ceiling in another and that sucks even more, but it seems rather extreme that you can’t own a speargun to take on a trip out of the country.

Yeah, it’s a old ass law and since it is such a small thing here no one is prepared to try to get a politician to change it. The ol if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it thing you know.

I know some people managed to get a permit to keep the gun at home, but it’s arbitrary to the local police to decide. If you’d get it approved it’s still a pain in the ass, the need to get a proper gun safe bolted to the floor etc, etc.

I don’t mind rigorous gun laws at all, as long as there is a way to do what you want when you are a law abiding citizen. It’s pissing me off, and it is these kind of stupid laws that make honest people break laws.

The funny thing is that high powered compound bows are legal. You don’t need a license, you don’t need to register, you don’t need a safe, you don’t need anything else than enough dough to buy it. The reason is that the energy is not “stored”. As you probably have guessed a crossbow is prohibited too.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

So stored energy is the problem. Is energy really stored in a pole spear? Just as with a long bow, its stored only as long as you can hold it. You can't cock it.

Or how about a Hawaiian sling? That's just like a long bow. You pull back on the bands and then release.

 

[SubSub]

Well, that stored energy part has to do with laws regulating weapon licensing/ownership, storage etc. The other part has to do with the fishery laws. It is two separate things that combined works really hard agains spearfishing and the abilities to keep a speargun.

 

[Selenium]

I know i will get everyone's back up for this suggestion but how about ... MAKE YOUR OWN ?

If you care more about spearfishing than the law just buy the parts separately, make the gun in your shed ... use it then break it into pieces and keep them in separate places !

And go hunting at night in secluded places so you don't get in trouble with the police...

Personally i wouldn't risk it, as you said you have a business and a family .. but if your desire is greater than your respect for the law and if you are willing to take a risk ... then there is always a way

 

[SubSub]

I know i will get everyone's back up for this suggestion but how about ... MAKE YOUR OWN ?

If you care more about spearfishing than the law just buy the parts separately, make the gun in your shed ... use it then break it into pieces and keep them in separate places !

And go hunting at night in secluded places so you don't get in trouble with the police...

Personally i wouldn't risk it, as you said you have a business and a family .. but if your desire is greater than your respect for the law and if you are willing to take a risk ... then there is always a way

LOL, yeah I can't say the thought has not occurred. But in all honesty, thinking of it I'd have to go out by myself (as I don't know many other freedivers and even less spearfishermen back here in Sweden).. at night.. in unfamiliar waters (I don't dive much outdoors in Sweden) with the risk of some overzealous island bastard seeing me, calling the cops on me resulting in me going beeing arrested for weapons crime. Weapons crime is considered a very serious crime in Sweden and I'd get royally screwed not to mentioned the possible prisontime + fines. For what?

Naah, I'll settle with whining about it on the forums! But it is a pain in the ass not beeing able to keep my gun at home! I have family in Greece and go there often, but if I'd want to go somewhere else and bring my gun.. well, that would be a logistical challenge.

 

[vrokhlenko]

LOL, yeah I can't say the thought has not occurred. But in all honesty, thinking of it I'd have to go out by myself (as I don't know many other freedivers and even less spearfishermen back here in Sweden).. at night.. in unfamiliar waters (I don't dive much outdoors in Sweden) with the risk of some overzealous island bastard seeing me, calling the cops on me resulting in me going beeing arrested for weapons crime. Weapons crime is considered a very serious crime in Sweden and I'd get royally screwed not to mentioned the possible prisontime + fines. For what?

Naah, I'll settle with whining about it on the forums! But it is a pain in the ass not beeing able to keep my gun at home! I have family in Greece and go there often, but if I'd want to go somewhere else and bring my gun.. well, that would be a logistical challenge.

Dude, you should look into the direction of Russia or Ukraine. There are some people left who make custom guns. My father used to make them. You need a hydro-pneumatic gun. It is short and can be made extremely powerful. Its power can be regulated easily in the water from shot to shot. There is no risk to shoot yourself while loading - like a rubber gun. Can be easily disassembled. You can get a pre-made one or order a custom one for no more than 500 Euros.