I wana use 1mm line - crimp help

[speardummie]

Hello folk. I'm trying to keep busy during these cold winter days.
I'm pawing through my dive-bag, searching for problems to solve. And I think I found a problem.
I missed a whole bunch last summer. Many fish got away. And instead of looking towards myself and improving my skills, i'm going to blame the equipment.

Problem? :
I think my 1.6mm line is too thick, has too much memory, and causing unnecessary drag.
It's probably pulling the shaft off-course. I'm using a small pneumatic salvimar and going after smaller fish, I think I can get away with using smaller line.

So I bought some 1mm mono (100lbs) and I like the way it feels, although i'm skeptical.
I can't break the stuff by hand. But i'm worried about this thin mono breaking at the crimps after a few hits. So everything needs to be perfect.

Crimps :
I read that alluminum crimps are better than copper, for mono lifespan. Is this true at all? Why?
Should I use double-bbl or single crimps?
And can I use some kind of strain-relief (over my mono but under the crimp), to improve lifespan?


Any tips concering drag/line/crimps are welcome

 

[popgun pete]

Hmm, 1 mm dia, line, spear and release? When the fish busts the line.

 

[vrokhlenko]

1) I read that alluminum crimps are better than copper, for mono lifespan. Is this true at all? Why?
Any crimp will outlive your line. It has to be examined and changed quite frequently.
2) Should I use double-bbl or single crimps?
Copper are double barrel, aluminum are usually oval. Aluminum ones are more forgiving in case your crimping tool does not have a proper diameter opening
as thick aluminum collapses. I used both types and NEVER crimp failed on me. Use whatever is cheaper
3) And can I use some kind of strain-relief (over my mono but under the crimp), to improve lifespan?
The biggest issue is the attachment point to the slide ring unless you are using that plastic monstrosity that all Italian guns come with. You need to buy or make a proper stainless or titanium slide ring the has no sharp edges on the piece you are attaching your line to. Again, you should view your line as an often disposable item

 

[Mr. X]

I prefer mono over super -strong modern alternatives, such as kevlar and Spectra (although they can be excellent for rock climbing gear and bullet-resistant vests! ). My first speargun came equipped from RA with, I think, 2mm their super strong Mako mono. It was very good, even for our relatively small British fish.

I've since moved to thinner mono, including using inexpensive weedwacker (strimmer) line, but never less than 1.6mm. That seemed thin enough and strong enough ... and abrasion resistant enough and robust enough for my modest needs.

1.6mm was I think recommended by our more experienced forum friends in Guernsey (Foxfish or possibly OMD or Magpie). Their info. proved invaluable when I was starting out.

I normally use double barrel aluminum crimps. I think most here do. They crimp very easily I usually use cheap, simple bicusped eletrical crimpers but snipe nose pliers work too, and probably regular pliers too? There may be alternatives that work. Also, before I got crimps, I successfully used wrapping line and super glue, but it's probably more labour-intensive/time consuming and requires care and a little skill/cunning

If you missed with you short gun perhaps you would benefit from a longer speargun ( e.g is range or noise part of the problem)? BTW fish can often turn quicker than you'd think possible (slowed video shows this), often turning a big side view into a slim front or back view.

 

[speardummie]

1) I read that alluminum crimps are better than copper, for mono lifespan. Is this true at all? Why?
Any crimp will outlive your line. It has to be examined and changed quite frequently.
2) Should I use double-bbl or single crimps?
Copper are double barrel, aluminum are usually oval. Aluminum ones are more forgiving in case your crimping tool does not have a proper diameter opening
as thick aluminum collapses. I used both types and NEVER crimp failed on me. Use whatever is cheaper
3) And can I use some kind of strain-relief (over my mono but under the crimp), to improve lifespan?
The biggest issue is the attachment point to the slide ring unless you are using that plastic monstrosity that all Italian guns come with. You need to buy or make a proper stainless or titanium slide ring the has no sharp edges on the piece you are attaching your line to. Again, you should view your line as an often disposable item

That's the only slider i've ever used. Is that the monstrosity you speak of? it seems like a good design

It's not the metal crimp/sleve i'm worried about, it's mono line under the crimp.
I know my 1mm line is undersized for our activities, so I'm trying to lengthen it's lifespan anyway I can. Even if I have to change it out every 2 dives.

I wonder if I could cheat a little, and fill the crimp up with a soft epoxy before squeezing down on it.... hmmm

 

[speardummie]

I prefer mono over super -strong modern alternatives, such as kevlar and Spectra (although they can be excellent for rock climbing gear and bullet-resistant vests! ). My first speargun came equipped from RA with, I think, 2mm their super strong Mako mono. It was very good, even for our relatively small British fish.

I've since moved to thinner mono, including using inexpensive weedwacker (strimmer) line, but never less than 1.6mm. That seemed thin enough and strong enough ... and abrasion resistant enough and robust enough for my modest needs.

1.6mm was I think recommended by our more experienced forum friends in Guernsey (Foxfish or possibly OMD or Magpie). Their info. proved invaluable when I was starting out.

I normally use double barrel aluminum crimps. I think most here do. They crimp very easily I usually use cheap, simple bicusped eletrical crimpers but snipe nose pliers work too, and probably regular pliers too? There may be alternatives that work. Also, before I got crimps, I successfully used wrapping line and super glue, but it's probably more labour-intensive/time consuming and requires care and a little skill/cunning

If you missed with you short gun perhaps you would benefit from a longer speargun ( e.g is range or noise part of the problem)? BTW fish can often turn quicker than you'd think possible (slowed video shows this), often turning a big side view into a slim front or back view.

1.6 is definitely handy, and it seems to be the smalled "spearfishing" mono you can buy. Ive been using it for a few years now.
But I think it's too thick. It doesn't take much to stear a shaft off-course. So I wana try something new this summer.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Well, the one that you showed is kind of OK - its diameter is kept to a minimum but it is plastic. The previous generation was even worse This is the proper one:

 

[vrokhlenko]

View attachment 59776


That's the only slider i've ever used. Is that the monstrosity you speak of? it seems like a good design

It's not the metal crimp/sleve i'm worried about, it's mono line under the crimp.
I know my 1mm line is undersized for our activities, so I'm trying to lengthen it's lifespan anyway I can. Even if I have to change it out every 2 dives.

I wonder if I could cheat a little, and fill the crimp up with a soft epoxy before squeezing down on it.... hmmm

Take a look at this: 1.3mm jacketed dyneema line. It is stiff and you can knot it : https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805004273798.html

 

[popgun pete]

Mono in slim diameters is good for rod and reel fishing line as there may be a hundred yards or more experiencing drag from cross currents. It is a different story in spearfishing as our range is short, maybe 20 feet tops and usually 12 feet or less. Shooting line will not steer your shaft and it is more likely a slightly bent shaft or not sitting flush floppers. I have shot fish for years with the woven cord you get with the guns. A knick in mono and its strength evaporates as that is where it will break. Crimps need to be sized to the lines being used and I doubt anyone uses 1 mm diameter mono with crimps. Because pneumatic guns have plenty of power for their length you have less to worry about line drag slowing the shaft down. In recent years Salvimar have taken leave of their senses and supplied mono shooting line with most of their guns, but for most fish you can reach them and intercept them with thicker line in tow by the shaft. One of the skills in spearfishing is reading fish behaviour and where they will go next. Knowing the pause and look, swim a bit and have another look and you can shoot them like clockwork. Different fish species will have different habits, it is worth at times simply watching them rather than blazing away.

And as you were told earlier you need a longer gun, there is a reason manufacturers sell spearguns from 40 cm through to 130 cm. To shoot further you need a longer gun, but as guns get longer the increments gained get shorter as it is a case of diminishing returns due to the density and drag of water on missiles that are driven from impulse weapons such as spearguns.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I don't know a thing about pneumatic guns so I didn't want to speak up, but I agree with Pete. 1 mm is just to thin to survive in the marine evironment. A tiny nick and you've lost your shaft. I can't imagine how 1.6 could steer your shot enough to matter, but if it does you need a stronger gun.

 

[popgun pete]

As a general rule longer pneumatic guns shoot about two line wraps, they can shoot three, but the gun has to be really pumped up to the max. As pneumatic guns get shorter they can shoot more line wraps as the wrap length on the gun is short, a "Miniministen" (42 cm) can shoot three, but the shaft is running out of steam near the end of flight. I have shot one of them more times than I can remember, even took out a mullet on a parabolic shot at full line length.

What cuts the flight distance down is a longer shaft has more wetted area and is pulling more line which similarly has a greater wetted area along its length. Free shafts fly much further, but unless over a sandy bottom you will lose it and of course the fish may swim off with it.

 

[Leto]

Very nice thread. I have very stupid setup but it works for me... Please don't bash me.. I'm a techie guy..

I have a single pneumatic gun 50 cm and use titanium line retainer exactly like vrohlenko posted in the thread. I also replaced original crappy shaft with 26" Pneumatic Speargun Shaft from spearfishing world. It was expensive, $50 but worth every penny. It's longer but flies super nicely and doesn't bend nor rust. I kitesurf and for the line I use 7 meter long kite extension line cut to 5meter which I had lying unused. They are about 1mm/1.2mm at about 300kg/700lbs rating. Super strong. I also have 1W laser guided tech on the gun and some other stuff lol. Some fish are super scared of that tech and for these I turn it off but some big fishes like bass/striped bass don't care and sometimes it helps when you need to make split second shot at a distance. I also pump the gun to 30psi-33psi

Some sessions I don't miss a shot. I'm also a big believer into keeping your spear tip extremely sharp which makes massive difference and sometimes shot fish from pretty far distance.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Very nice thread. I have very stupid setup but it works for me... Please don't bash me.. I'm a techie guy..

I have a single pneumatic gun 50 cm and use titanium line retainer exactly like vrohlenko posted in the thread. I also replaced original crappy shaft with 26" Pneumatic Speargun Shaft from spearfishing world. It was expensive, $50 but worth every penny. It's longer but flies super nicely and doesn't bend nor rust. I kitesurf and for the line I use 7 meter long kite extension line cut to 5meter which I had lying unused. They are about 1mm/1.2mm at about 300kg/700lbs rating. Super strong. I also have 1W laser guided tech on the gun and some other stuff lol. Some fish are super scared of that tech and for these I turn it off but some big fishes like bass/striped bass don't care and sometimes it helps when you need to make split second shot at a distance. I also pump the gun to 30psi-33psi

Some sessions I don't miss a shot. I'm also a big believer into keeping your spear tip extremely sharp which makes massive difference and sometimes shot fish from pretty far distance.

All is missing is a nuclear warhead. Apparently you hunt in dark waters for striped bass so your flashlight helps. I gave up on local waters - you can take only one striper at a time as opposed to three a few years back. Judging by the rating of your line it is a pure UHMWPE (dyneema/spectra) and soft. I prefer a stiffer line

 

[Leto]

Haha. I know. Flashlight I rarely use so most of the time I simply unclip it. And no, I don't really do night dives. Other stuff is there. For the line, you are right it's likely spectra, soft. But I really don't have much issues with it.. It does tangle but very rarely.

Nuclear warhead...hmm, good idea... it can be useful for initiating self-destruct sequence in case of multiple sharks (5th element type gun) but taking entire bay out can look unprofessional lol..

I also have a custom carbon floater I made and maybe it makes recoil less... So might be somewhat useful to the original question on accuracy instead of switching to 1mm monofilm line.

Cheers.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Haha. I know. Flashlight I rarely use so most of the time I simply unclip it. And no, I don't really do night dives. Other stuff is there. For the line, you are right it's likely spectra, soft. But I really don't have much issues with it.. It does tangle but very rarely.

Nuclear warhead...hmm, good idea... it can be useful for initiating self-destruct sequence in case of multiple sharks (5th element type gun) but taking entire bay out can look unprofessional lol..

I also have a custom carbon floater I made and maybe it makes recoil less... So might be somewhat useful to the original question on accuracy instead of switching to 1mm monofilm line.

Cheers.

I did not mean at night. On the East coast the water is dirty. You rarely get a few yards of visibility - I hunt in the Atlantic but there is less and less fish... As far as 1 mm mono - it is a bit thin. I use 1.4-1.5mm on my 85 and 90 cm Cyrano. I religiously try to avoid rocks - always wait for pelagics.

 

[popgun pete]

What type of gun is under all those add-ons? Seac-Sub Shotgun?

 

[Leto]

Correct, the plaintiff is Seac Asso 50. It's slightly negatively buoyant with all whistles attached becoming neutral/slightly positively buoyant after the shot and neutral becoming positive without flashlight attached. Will move gopro to the mask/forehead since it now makes the gun visible in videos.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Correct, the plaintiff is Seac Asso 50. It's slightly negatively buoyant with all whistles attached becoming neutral/slightly positively buoyant after the shot and neutral becoming positive without flashlight attached. Will move gopro to the mask/forehead since it now makes the gun visible in videos.

Where do you hunt mostly?

 

[Scott Valentine]

For what it's worth, I use the super strong modern alternatives like Spectra
I purchased guns that came with mono line and I really don't like it, it's too stiff, and in my opinion it tends to steer the shaft too much
And after reading the comments about replacing a frequently that would be another concern
My super strong Spectra lasts indefinitely
And as for drag, I get 12 ft shots on my Sten mini mini 41 mm

 

[Leto]

Agree with Scott. I bet on shorter guns/pneumatics having monoline is not optimal for precision. I have mono on the longer 90cm rubber gun and will see how the spear flies. Mono becomes semi-permanently bent at the wrapping points and may potentially affect the spear especially a shorter one. Also remember, that sanded surfaces experience less friction in the water than polished ones (common knowledge in any surfing sport). So the only advantage mono may possibly theoretically have is less tangling, which is somewhat rare with good dense spectra to begin with.

Also if you optimize your pneumatic gun (metal fine line retainer, nicer thinner denser spectra, spear cone, smaller/less knots or using crimps, bit more pressure, floater, rubber flopper ring, a bit longer heavier shaft than one that came with it) it shoots very far. And if you keep your spear tip razor sharp, this thing will shoot through everything at 3-4m.

With my current pneumatic setup, same as Scott, I try to avoid shooting directly at rocks at all costs to keep the tip crazy sharp entire session, which means I can take big fish anytime, have almost no ricochet at longer distances, have more protection in case some crazy shark swims at me, and limit time spent sharpening the tip at home.