Ilaria Bonin new DNF workd record

[mattbigblue]

Ah, so in plus it was in a 50m pool. Another argument showing that the pool length may not be that important as many claim. Congrats to Ilaria - very nice swim and a clean SP with a beautiful smile

No, it just proves that athletes that tend to swim faster, with not so much glide, benefit a little from 50m pool. Nothing changes to slow swimmers (aka 30s/25m length)

Congrats on a great dive, I'm really jelaous about her leg-kick :vangry

 

[trux]

No, it just proves that athletes that tend to swim faster, with not so much glide, benefit a little from 50m pool. Nothing changes to slow swimmers (aka 30s/25m length)

Isn't it the distance that counts? If you use the wrong strategy for certain pool, it is your problem, and not a problem of the pool.

 

[mattbigblue]

Isn't it the distance that counts? If you use the wrong strategy for certain pool, it is your problem, and not a problem of the pool.

did You see irony it this post?

I just think that drawing conclusions like this one from 1 swim could be wrong, especially from the distance itself.

I'm just saying that there are people who has fast twitch muscles evolved better, and people with slow-twitch muscles ahead.

And for me this is another example that, people who tends to swim faster, perform better in long pool...That's why You won't see any time soon, Goran, Bjarte, Rune, Mullins, etc doing more in 50m than they actually do in 25m...and opposite, You won't see any time soon doing Iliana, Sessa etc more in 25m than they do in 50m pool...and this is just another proof..

and ofc You are completly right about swimming tactic in 25-50m pool. However I doubt than any of the athlete can do much about it. You just born naturally predisposed with either slow or fast twitch muscles and You form it while You grow up.

To sum up:
You are trying to prove that 50m pool is no worse than 25m pool and WR can be done in both types..
And it's completly true.

I claim that both type of the pools can be advantage for certain type of athlete.

So no matter in which pool will be next WR, there will be always some people taking real advantage out of it...I can assume that Natalia or Kathryn will brake that record in a 25m pool...

M

 

[baiyoke]

In my humble opinion fast-twitch or slow-twich muscle fibre does not really matter in this 25m/50m context, because of the super-slow speed of apnea... Muscles don't work very hard in apnea-swims... even "slow"-twitch muscle fibres are fast/strong enough for good propulsion... I would actually be surprised if fast-twitch muscle fibres are activated at all in apnea-swims, as long as there's still O2.

However I'm uncertain if there might be a benefit at the end of the swim, when acid is building up. Is that what you're talking about? But that would be equal in both 25m and 50m as I see it.

I think technique/tactics is more important for the swim distance considering 25m or 50m pools. Swim speed also, but not because of musclefibre constellation, but because og preserving inertia at the middle of the 50m pool, loosing it at ends.

Perhaps this should be in another thread btw... but then again, it relates to her swim above (?)

 

[trux]

Matt, glad to see we agree with each other Yes indeed I do not claim that someone cannot take advantage of shorter or longer pool more than others. All what I tell since a longer time is that the pool length has much lesser impact on the performance than is generally believed. You can find claims that a 50m pool automatically leads to the degradation of 20% of the performance. From the stats I see (and it is by far not just this one single swim), it is clear that the difference due to the pool length is very marginal (if any).

 

[Walrus]

Very nice swim, well done Ilaria !

The difference in DNF in a 25m vs 50m pool is far from 'marginal' in the men's results. It's even bigger when you look at Dave's NZ record. Agree that having a different approach to technique & speed would balance out some of the difference for 25m vs 50m pools. I would say however to achieve good results in a 50m pool you need really good technique, and not just average. There is far less actual swimming in a 25m pool vs a 50m. In a 25m pool the first 10-13m is a push off, then 12m - 15m of DNF. In a 50m pool the same push off, then more like 37 - 40m of DNF.

In short in a 25m pool you can get away with a lot if you have a decent breathold, in a 50m you can't. At the risk of causing offense it's possible the top guys just aren't keeping up with the ladies technique wise. (And no Dave I wasn't picking on you, I'm crap in comparison :blackeye )




cheers,
Wal

 

[Mullins]

I think most people who swim slowly can use a more powerful, elegant looking style if they want to. But they choose the speed and technique that gets them furthest. Often that means looking sloppy.

Probably a mistake to throw my 232m swim into the mix, because there's no 50m comparison available.

As for the argument that the fast swimmers like Ilaria and Sessa couldn't do the same distances in a 25m pool.... surely they could do a fast turn and a big pushoff? I mean, turns benefit normal swimmers who are racing!

 

[Walrus]

Dave I thought your 232m was a good example, think it will be a while before someone does that in a 50m pool

True, there is always a tradeoff between streamlining and stroke used vs the relaxation/effort involved. In fast swims I think the benefits of streamlining outweigh the costs, compared to slow swims where some people may get greater benefits of being more relaxed at the cost of technique. I will stick with my previous post that even for those people that have really good technique and are choosing to swim a 'relaxed sloppy' style in a 25m pool, I don't think it would work in a 50m pool. Hence you can get away with more in a 25m pool.

 

[Mullins]

But nobody who's done that in a 25m pool has ever tried in a 50....

 

[trux]

Wal, I know about the tradeoff very well, but I also study the competition statistics, and have personal experience in both types of pools. I made an analysis comparing results from WC 2009 in 25m a pool and WC 2011 in a 50m pool, and the results confirmed my claim. Well, I know no stats are bullet-proof, and there are different factors that might have play a role, but still I believe it shows even to skeptics that the difference between the two pool lengths is lesser than what they believed.

You can have a look at it here: APNEA.cz - Blog

 

[tycoonelyk]

She's pretty cute..

 

[tycoonelyk]

I used to be a competitive swimmer and one thing I notice about her is that she keeps her fingers loose and apart.. If she were to cup her hands she would get a lot more power out of her stroke!

 

[baiyoke]

Not according to this study...

http://forums.deeperblue.com/freediving-science/95234-spread-em-fin-gers-fast-swimming.html

 

[Goran Colak]

Fingers lose and close together make no difference... if anything than lose is better then close together.

Ps. One more (Croatian) girl at 150m DNF...

 

[tycoonelyk]

Yeah.. that must be why all the best swimmers in the world cup their hands.. So they can be slower

 

[Goran Colak]

No one cup their hands dude!!!

 

[tycoonelyk]

must be why the best fins are also cut in four slits and spread a few inches apart, so you can get the most propulsion.. I've swam competitively four 8 years and trust me when I say cupping is better. People probably don't think it is because it's harder, and if you don't have enough strength your hands and tri's get tired quicker. but when you have a solid stroke (giggidy) the cupped hands push a lot more water, in return propelling you better

 

[tycoonelyk]

Maybe that's just the way I was taught though, I just listen to my coaches and have seen a ton of videos, and all of them show cupped hands

 

[rddk]

About 50 and 25 mt pool performance i have the luck to work in a center that has both and i've trained dnf in both and i can say that there's almost no difference, in 25 mt pool you have more push from the wall, but in 50 mt pool you can concentrate and relax more since the wall always broke a lil the rytm.

 

[trux]

Maybe that's just the way I was taught though, I just listen to my coaches and have seen a ton of videos, and all of them show cupped hands

It's a few years ago, isn't it?