My mistake also Foxfish as what i meant to say was i regulary see Common skate I dont spear them just as i regulary see porpoises, pilot whales,gannets,seals,otters etc.
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Interesting spearguns by Apnea and Epsealon
- Thread starterMr. X
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Thread Status: Hello
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Just googled common skate and despite the name they are apparently critically endangered, meaning that extinction is a real possibility, don't tell too many people exactly were you see them Brochman, some anglers and dare I say spearos may not be as ethically minded as you 
Just googled common skate and despite the name they are apparently critically endangered, meaning that extinction is a real possibility, don't tell too many people exactly were you see them Brochman, some anglers and dare I say spearos may not be as ethically minded as you
I've seen hundreds in Rhode Island.
And apparently, they are a bitch to clean and aren't that good.
They don't camouflage well and they don't move as you approach. You have to poke them to get a response.
Doesn't sound like the kind of thing I'd be shooting...
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In the UK there is quite often confusion about fish names.
Classic examples could be - Bass is now more often called Sea Bass - Angler fish is now called Monk fish!
Skate is another classic misinterpretation....
In a supermarket or fishmongers, 'Skate' can mean any type of Ray... thornback ray & blonde ray are good examples of incorrectly being sold as Skate.
However the true Skate or Common Skate as we get in the UK, is a huge fish, they have been recorded to around 300lb, I think the rod caught record is around 230lb.
Once a common fish, normally preferring deep water 300 - 500' deep but coming inshore at certain times of year.
Where I live in the South of the UK, there was once an good seasonal industry long lining for Drabble (as Common Skate are called locally) 'Drabble ally' is still a charted mark.
In fact the was one sighted around 25 years ago in fairly shallow water, a scuba diver fishing for scallops in only 60' of water, reported swimming over a huge Skate!
So in short, the Skate we see in fishmongers is actually Blonde ray or Thornback ray.
Classic examples could be - Bass is now more often called Sea Bass - Angler fish is now called Monk fish!
Skate is another classic misinterpretation....
In a supermarket or fishmongers, 'Skate' can mean any type of Ray... thornback ray & blonde ray are good examples of incorrectly being sold as Skate.
However the true Skate or Common Skate as we get in the UK, is a huge fish, they have been recorded to around 300lb, I think the rod caught record is around 230lb.
Once a common fish, normally preferring deep water 300 - 500' deep but coming inshore at certain times of year.
Where I live in the South of the UK, there was once an good seasonal industry long lining for Drabble (as Common Skate are called locally) 'Drabble ally' is still a charted mark.
In fact the was one sighted around 25 years ago in fairly shallow water, a scuba diver fishing for scallops in only 60' of water, reported swimming over a huge Skate!
So in short, the Skate we see in fishmongers is actually Blonde ray or Thornback ray.
FYI I saw a Rob Allen video recently. He is enthused about their new rollergun "the best and most accurate gun we have ever developed". He reckons 110cm is the best maximum size required. So perhaps a new, shorter, more versatile option?
More info here: https://www.spearfishing.co.uk/spearguns/guns/rob-allen-roller-guns/
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The Apnea Amarok gun is sold under different brand names using "badge engineering", for example I have a Nemrod Hellfire Elliptic which is exactly the same gun (125 cm). Different barrel stickers and nameplates in the handle create the necessary changes. Here is my gun in its carry bag, you can see the Nemrod badge. Nemrod have been out of business for decades, so this is just a name being used for the Aussie market.
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You can see the same gun wearing a Scorpena brand here. The guns are made in Turkey.
scorpena.ru
Ружья SCORPENA - подробный обзор
Снаряжение SCORPENA набирает популярность на российском рынке товаров для подводной охоты и, судя по тому, что интерес к новинкам неуклонно ра
The Nemrod/Amarok Elliptic has a standard muzzle, at 125 cm it is too long for a roller (for my use). It is a gun that I don't use much as I am more used to cocking stock guns which I grew up with. I have plenty of those, both timber and tube guns, as they are easy to load and can be shot with both hands on the gun. The Nemrod Elliptic gun is fitted with mono shooting line which I don't like as it is springy stuff and I have a mind to chop it off and replace it with dyneema. Mono is fast through the water, but one nick and it has to be replaced as a big jerk and it will just pop. The gun is quite handy to use and the cuttle barrel is quite slim, on release the Apnea Amarok guns were considered a top of the line gun and good value for money. As long as fish are skewered with reproducible results that is all you want for that particular service. In my cold local waters you don't need such a long gun, different story as you move north, but always it depends on conditions and the prey in that location which can be very seasonal with ocean currents moving down in my case the eastern seaboard.
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I was just re-reading this thread. Re. Mako recoil with 2x16mm rubbers, RA's model with 2x16mm is called the Tuna and it has a significantly thicker, heavier spear, at least 7mm but possibly 7.5mm - that extra mass might help reduce recoil and spear flex. Or perhaps not, since the recoil is likely a reaction to the mass of the spear taking off in the other direction. I haven't yet got my head around the full implications and mechanisms involved in band speargun recoil though, I'm afraid
I think Foxfish, as a speargun builder, has studied this more.Interesting to read about the MVD roller muzzle. Are you using it as a regular roller or an inverted roller? Where does the preload band fit in the setup? Is that an optional, additional band somewhere, perhaps part of a 2-stage load?
Thanks for the Amarok description Pete, I am considering getting one, so quite relevant. Also interesting to read that you prefer using spearguns which can be used 2 handed.
I gather from Foxfish that there has been some discussion about the possible advantages of using thinner mono or Dyneema spearline in reducing drag on the spear. I missed that I'm afraid but I note that Foxfish is now using thinner mono spearlines, so I assume he was convinced or, at least, intrigued enough to try it.
I am a fan of Dyneema/Spectra/Kevlar for wishbones, constrictor cord, lure fishing braid and climbing gear but not so keen on the idea for spear line or speargun reel lines. I really like mono spearline, it just seems ideal to me (cheap, range of diameters/colours, just the right combination of flexibility and stiffness, smooth,strong, light, etc.). I think perhaps the thought of expensive, thin, soft cord, which is significantly harder to cut with a knife, floating around me in a tangle in the water is not an attractive or necessary option. Although even cutting that RA Mako line mono would likely be a challenge with my rather crappy 420 steel dive knife
My old speargun was equipped with Rob Allen's robust/tough 2mm black Mako line (rated at something like 200lb-400lb?). It aquired an impressive array of nicks and gouges over the years without needing replacement, as UK fish rarely approach 1/10th of the rated poundage. I did replace it eventually but could have probably used it for several more years before it became critical. I use thinner spearlines these days; Omer's black mono seems pretty tough but being thinner needs replacement if it gets much of a gouge.
I gather from Foxfish that there has been some discussion about the possible advantages of using thinner mono or Dyneema spearline in reducing drag on the spear. I missed that I'm afraid but I note that Foxfish is now using thinner mono spearlines, so I assume he was convinced or, at least, intrigued enough to try it.
I am a fan of Dyneema/Spectra/Kevlar for wishbones, constrictor cord, lure fishing braid and climbing gear but not so keen on the idea for spear line or speargun reel lines. I really like mono spearline, it just seems ideal to me (cheap, range of diameters/colours, just the right combination of flexibility and stiffness, smooth,strong, light, etc.). I think perhaps the thought of expensive, thin, soft cord, which is significantly harder to cut with a knife, floating around me in a tangle in the water is not an attractive or necessary option. Although even cutting that RA Mako line mono would likely be a challenge with my rather crappy 420 steel dive knife
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Depends on how sharp your rocks and underwater terrain is. I had my “Tuna” watch crystal scratched by some marine encrustation like it was cut with a diamond. Mono taking a trip through this stuff by a worthy specimen can pop it. Once in a test 300 pound mono was nicked with a knife after being clamped in a vice protected by a crimp body and a dropped 50 pound weight then busted it. It is the jerk that does the damage with everything depending on one strand.
Just to round out this thread, I ended up purchasing the roller version of the 95cm Apnea Amarok from the same store, via their webstore spearfisingstore.co.uk, which arrived yesterday. Obviously my visit to the store, where I first handled it, made a positive and lasting impression. Quite heavy but otherwise rather lovely. Re. an earlier question, the spear seems very robust and quite heavy I would think 6.6mm or perhaps more. I'll measure it with a vernier caliper and let you know. I did a quick first-impression review of it and some of my other purchases in the same order, including the new 2x14mm Apnea ST & Apnea New Gen reel, near the end of this thread: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threa...commendation-for-uk-waters-fish.115883/page-5
Yes, the Apnea Amarok roller's sharkfin spear is 6.6mm diameter, measured with a digital caliper. Ditto for the Apnea ST's sharkfin spear.
6.6mm is the same diameter as my old Rob Allen Sparid had (which comes equipped with one powerful 16mm bulk rubber). I think RA equip their 20mm version with 7mm spears and their 2x16mm models (e.g Tuna) with a 7.5mm spear. 6.6mm seemed a bit heavyweight for UK but it worked just as well with 1x20mm band and could probably have handled double 16mm or 14mm bands at a push.
There seems to be a bit of a trend for skinny spears currently. I thought my 6.3mm Omer spears were incredibly skinny but I read recently of manufacturers supplying 6mm spears. Drilling holes for the flopper and spearline could get challenging at these smaller sizes. So with that in mind, perhaps 6.6mm is good size spear for a 95cm roller and a 2x14mm speargun, not too big and not too small. Predictably, Rob Allen has equipped his rollers with hefty 7.5mm spears presumably because, after all, they are more powerful that the double band guns a size or two longer - and they are used for big ol' African fish.
Ditto for the Apnea ST's sharkfin spear. 6.6mm is the same diameter as my old Rob Allen Sparid had (which comes equipped with one powerful 16mm bulk rubber). I think RA equip their 20mm version with 7mm spears and their 2x16mm models (e.g Tuna) with a 7.5mm spear. 6.6mm seemed a bit heavyweight for UK but it worked just as well with 1x20mm band and could probably have handled double 16mm or 14mm bands at a push.
There seems to be a bit of a trend for skinny spears currently. I thought my 6.3mm Omer spears were incredibly skinny but I read recently of manufacturers supplying 6mm spears. Drilling holes for the flopper and spearline could get challenging at these smaller sizes. So with that in mind, perhaps 6.6mm is good size spear for a 95cm roller and a 2x14mm speargun, not too big and not too small. Predictably, Rob Allen has equipped his rollers with hefty 7.5mm spears presumably because, after all, they are more powerful that the double band guns a size or two longer - and they are used for big ol' African fish.
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Fyi I've decided to do a long term review of my new Apnea gear, including my new Apnea Amarok 95 roller speargun and 2x14mm Apnea ST60 speargun. Rather than go too far off topic here, I've started a new thread for the purpose at: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threa...95-and-apnea-new-gen-reel.116338/#post-989867