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Ireland Spearing 2013
- Thread starterbobdonny
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It has been said the breeding ground discovered in Guernsey was the largest found so far & the fish were the biggest recorded.
Whatever - it took four years from prosperity to poverty.
All gone now.
Some believe the fish had been returning to the same reef for millennium - so sad.
Whatever - it took four years from prosperity to poverty.
All gone now.
Some believe the fish had been returning to the same reef for millennium - so sad.
So the fishery is "all gone now" ? What a waste. Classic "harvest till death" fisheries management. There is no excuse for it these days, there are plenty of adaptive management options to get optimal sustainable yields , without crashing a fishery.
I'm interested to learn more about this & how the resource is managed & by whom. Off the bat I'm guessing that responsibility is not transparent, the local authority will blame the national, & the national will blame the EU, & the EU will blame the local, & the circle will continue. I'll also guess that every time the various stakeholders (Commercial & recreational) start to communicate on a solution one of the regulating bodies dangles a carrot & one of the stake holders breaks the accord.
Please tell me to butt out if I'm not welcome to discuss this as an outsider.
Cheers Sharkey
I'm interested to learn more about this & how the resource is managed & by whom. Off the bat I'm guessing that responsibility is not transparent, the local authority will blame the national, & the national will blame the EU, & the EU will blame the local, & the circle will continue. I'll also guess that every time the various stakeholders (Commercial & recreational) start to communicate on a solution one of the regulating bodies dangles a carrot & one of the stake holders breaks the accord.
Please tell me to butt out if I'm not welcome to discuss this as an outsider.
Cheers Sharkey
I our case, the locale fishermen put up some of their own rules to mange the reef.
The fish arrived in December on a reef about 2 miles out from shore in shallow water & stayed until about Feb.
To start with there were uncountable numbers of huge bass many over 20lb.
There were several exempts to pair trawl & net the reef resulting in monster catches!!
Then the locale fishermen decided to only allow rod or hand line fishing but that did not stop dozens of boats loaded with men hauling up the big fat breeding bass by the thousands.
Like ~I say it took 4 years to totally destroy the breeding ground!
The fish arrived in December on a reef about 2 miles out from shore in shallow water & stayed until about Feb.
To start with there were uncountable numbers of huge bass many over 20lb.
There were several exempts to pair trawl & net the reef resulting in monster catches!!
Then the locale fishermen decided to only allow rod or hand line fishing but that did not stop dozens of boats loaded with men hauling up the big fat breeding bass by the thousands.
Like ~I say it took 4 years to totally destroy the breeding ground!
There is a lot of info to consider in that last post, so please excuse my ignorance of local practices & terms if I get some point wrong.
I see that the local fishers are trying to protect the long term sustainability of the resource by limiting effort to "their own rules" line fishing only. I like the sound of this, its a great start, because if the local stake holders can reach an accord, you could effectively lobby the beaurocrats without local discord, this is very powerful. Insist that spearos have just as much right to access this resourse as any other recreational fisher & instead of a limit on effort, a bag or catch limit should work . I've personally have never witnessed "pair trawling" but I am aware of its effectiveness & I thought this type of "effort" was banned in the UK anyway.
The fact that a recently discovered fishery has collapsed after only four years is shocking . This is a major political embarassment for any politician involved with managing this resource. I'd be calling for a resignation. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, if the habitat hasn't been damaged by the trawling ( do they use chains between the otter boards?) the fishery & spawning aggregation should recover under a good management regime.
Hope I'm adding to the discussion & not just covering ground you've already been over.
Cheers Sharkey
I see that the local fishers are trying to protect the long term sustainability of the resource by limiting effort to "their own rules" line fishing only. I like the sound of this, its a great start, because if the local stake holders can reach an accord, you could effectively lobby the beaurocrats without local discord, this is very powerful. Insist that spearos have just as much right to access this resourse as any other recreational fisher & instead of a limit on effort, a bag or catch limit should work . I've personally have never witnessed "pair trawling" but I am aware of its effectiveness & I thought this type of "effort" was banned in the UK anyway.
The fact that a recently discovered fishery has collapsed after only four years is shocking . This is a major political embarassment for any politician involved with managing this resource. I'd be calling for a resignation. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, if the habitat hasn't been damaged by the trawling ( do they use chains between the otter boards?) the fishery & spawning aggregation should recover under a good management regime.
Hope I'm adding to the discussion & not just covering ground you've already been over.
Cheers Sharkey
Sharky you are more than welcome to post here and discuss these things. I,ve been doing it here for years. I want to answer your questions I really do but I'm honestly tired by the whole thing.
Yes there are laws, no they are not enforced.
Example... In my last post I showed 2bass. There is a law that says you can only have 2 bass in your possession in any 24hr period. There is good reason for this and we all follow this rule.
However despite that we have a continuous battle with anglers who want us banned from shooting bass. A few months ago a spears was threatened with being run over witha boat as he ad one bass on him.
We fight these silly battles year in year out, then a trawler comes in scoops up most likely tens of thousands of bass and openly online supports this saying Irish laws are crazy. He is then supported by every other trawler an in the country, I've pointed this thread to that discussion.... It's on the web in black and white.... Anglers are likewise outraged at 120000 mullet killed from one spot in the space of a few hours.
Commercials justifying this by saying they have a mortgage and they are just legitamitely harvesting a natural harvest.....
What's the point
Yes there are laws, no they are not enforced.
Example... In my last post I showed 2bass. There is a law that says you can only have 2 bass in your possession in any 24hr period. There is good reason for this and we all follow this rule.
However despite that we have a continuous battle with anglers who want us banned from shooting bass. A few months ago a spears was threatened with being run over witha boat as he ad one bass on him.
We fight these silly battles year in year out, then a trawler comes in scoops up most likely tens of thousands of bass and openly online supports this saying Irish laws are crazy. He is then supported by every other trawler an in the country, I've pointed this thread to that discussion.... It's on the web in black and white.... Anglers are likewise outraged at 120000 mullet killed from one spot in the space of a few hours.
Commercials justifying this by saying they have a mortgage and they are just legitamitely harvesting a natural harvest.....
What's the point
G'day bobdonny, just for interest I'm Bob too.
I can't say that I've walked in exactly the same shoes, but I'm constantly involved with making the type of changes you're seeking through the regulatory & legislative process. (Sometimes I'm resisting change too.) Trust me if you stay staunch you will see change. Everyone is resistent to change but it does happen. What I've noticed is that it happens in bursts, like a gun rubber, you apply the tension but don't see any change untill it goes off, & when it does go off, you'll see results very quickly.
A couple of other observations I've noticed, spearo's make the best advocates for wise fisheries management. For example, Cousteau was good until he became a protectionist. Down here the Taylors were Ok, but also turned to the protectionist ideology because it made them more money, Ron did appologise about this before his recent death. Remember since 1992 the world conservation union has advocated for wise use, not nill use, so protectionism should be finished, except the animal libbers keep it going for their own adgenda.
Keep up the pressure mate. Just from what I've read here, it's obvious that change is needed. What group of stakeholders are better to advocate for the change than spearos.
Cheers Sharkey
I can't say that I've walked in exactly the same shoes, but I'm constantly involved with making the type of changes you're seeking through the regulatory & legislative process. (Sometimes I'm resisting change too.) Trust me if you stay staunch you will see change. Everyone is resistent to change but it does happen. What I've noticed is that it happens in bursts, like a gun rubber, you apply the tension but don't see any change untill it goes off, & when it does go off, you'll see results very quickly.
A couple of other observations I've noticed, spearo's make the best advocates for wise fisheries management. For example, Cousteau was good until he became a protectionist. Down here the Taylors were Ok, but also turned to the protectionist ideology because it made them more money, Ron did appologise about this before his recent death. Remember since 1992 the world conservation union has advocated for wise use, not nill use, so protectionism should be finished, except the animal libbers keep it going for their own adgenda.
Keep up the pressure mate. Just from what I've read here, it's obvious that change is needed. What group of stakeholders are better to advocate for the change than spearos.
Cheers Sharkey
Have a read off this.... http://britishseafishing.co.uk/atlantic-dawn-the-ship-from-hell/
you would think that that kind of activity was long in the passed but it was only detained in irish waters a few weeks ago
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...-dawn-ship-detained-in-irish-waters-1.1604456
when the largest fishing boat in the world is high grading... you know the ocean is fuked!
you would think that that kind of activity was long in the passed but it was only detained in irish waters a few weeks ago
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...-dawn-ship-detained-in-irish-waters-1.1604456
when the largest fishing boat in the world is high grading... you know the ocean is fuked!
Thanks for those links, very informative. It would appear though that the chickens are comming home to roost, with McHugh dying from mad cow disease & his ex flagship now being detained by Irish authorities. I bet the politicians & beaurocrats involved have burnt out a few shredding machines since Mchugh passed away. Juorno's from all over the world will smell the blood in the water, so I certainly don't think that this is going to be the last of the problems for the now Dutch owned vessel. Could be a good time to call for a few resignations, or bowel movements from the ministry & public service.
High grading goes on everywhere, even in spearfishing comps, its all about managing it. Its an art getting the balance between an allowable quota of bycatch & the quotas right. The best way though is to make it obvious to the licence holders that they own a stake in the resourse. If the abundence decreases then so too does their quota, no matter how big or smart their boat is. If the fish become more abundent their share is bigger (trust me, its happening elsewhere). They can only catch what is sustainable otherwise they'll see their catch & quotas decline. When a wildlife population does come down the back of the bell curve its not pretty for an industry, & it happens very very fast. Don't forget the type of management we are discussing is called "harvest till death" it makes a great headline, use it. The management type you want is "adaptive" based upon monitoring & taking an "optimum sustainable yield", not maximum. Search these, & use the language too.
Again I'll throw some sunlight up. So long as they are not damaging the habitat, the fish will recover once they are allowed too. I really hope that you see an abundance of fish once again.
Cheers Mate
Sharkey
High grading goes on everywhere, even in spearfishing comps, its all about managing it. Its an art getting the balance between an allowable quota of bycatch & the quotas right. The best way though is to make it obvious to the licence holders that they own a stake in the resourse. If the abundence decreases then so too does their quota, no matter how big or smart their boat is. If the fish become more abundent their share is bigger (trust me, its happening elsewhere). They can only catch what is sustainable otherwise they'll see their catch & quotas decline. When a wildlife population does come down the back of the bell curve its not pretty for an industry, & it happens very very fast. Don't forget the type of management we are discussing is called "harvest till death" it makes a great headline, use it. The management type you want is "adaptive" based upon monitoring & taking an "optimum sustainable yield", not maximum. Search these, & use the language too.
Again I'll throw some sunlight up. So long as they are not damaging the habitat, the fish will recover once they are allowed too. I really hope that you see an abundance of fish once again.
Cheers Mate
Sharkey
How long do u think it was detained for...
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-9.011517/centery:56.82437/zoom:8/mmsi:244563000
And they are 100% destroying the habitat.
Nice to have another bob though
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-9.011517/centery:56.82437/zoom:8/mmsi:244563000
And they are 100% destroying the habitat.
Nice to have another bob though
How long do u think it was detained for...
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-9.011517/centery:56.82437/zoom:8/mmsi:244563000
And they are 100% destroying the habitat.
Nice to have another bob though
Are they using chains between the otter boards?
Or something else?
Sharkey
Yes. The real story is unlikely to come out however. lol
The true anger againt this vessel wasn't about it catching fish, we have total allowable catches (TAC's), & it was never going to be allowed to exceed this. It was the fact that it was taking opportunity from local commercial fishermen by giving a share away. Recreational fishers would rather support & trust local fishers than a foriegn owned company & we want to keep jobs & wealth here. It was also never about sustainability, other than just a headline to pull on greenies heart strings & get them on board too. Unity! Remember in a previous post the comment about breaking accords between rec & pro fishers.
The continuum of public acceptability is a very powerful tool, please, add it to your own kit.
Cheers Sharkey
Unfortunately, unity is one thing we don't really have here and spearfishing is at the bottom of the chain, probably with the least amount of people engaging in it. There have been posts from anglers and videos showing commercials threatening to endanger the lives of spearos. Just reading through the hateful and ignorant comments on the Facebook threads Bd posted about the Cork mullet and bass haul shows that each will defend their own to the detriment and exclusion of others.
I doesn't sound any different to what was normal here 30 years ago. There is still some dangerous behaviour & threats occasionally, but this is usually from commercial dive tour operators who want exclusive access to the best "publically owned" sites. By the early 90's all the stakeholders started to communicate with each other, & worked on the premise that we "all wanted a healthy wild fishery" no matter what our seperate interests were. The braurocrats didn't like us forming accords between ourselves because we stopped arguing with each other & could then go to the ministers as an alliance. Suddenly they were required to consult with stakeholders & we wanted measurable outcomes from them. To break these alliances, the beaurocrats would dangle carrots of self interest in front of individual groups, these were often grabbed & the alliances were & are continually broken. Still, it's the only real way forward that I can see. Unity & trust are the most important steps that fishers will have to take if they want to make any change.
Stay Staunch
Sharkey
Stay Staunch
Sharkey
Gillian Anderson or Jeany Spark?
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ctures?CMP=fb_gu#/?picture=424006668&index=11
Oh and sign the petition
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ctures?CMP=fb_gu#/?picture=424006668&index=11
Oh and sign the petition
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cod-Biography-Fish-Changed-World/dp/0099268701&tag=deeperbnet-21
Read this book if you have any interest in how commercial fishing can completely collapse a seemingly endless supply of one species; the effects are still being felt today…….
Read this book if you have any interest in how commercial fishing can completely collapse a seemingly endless supply of one species; the effects are still being felt today…….
Happy Christmas fellas. I'm sure some of you are still freezing your nuts off in the water This is my 3rd Christmas in Oz now. Not the same in the sun
Here's a little story of my encounter with a killer whale.
http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/melbourne-dive-trips.92743/#post-921420
This is my 3rd Christmas in Oz now. Not the same in the sunHere's a little story of my encounter with a killer whale.
http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/melbourne-dive-trips.92743/#post-921420