Bit vague and doesn't specify shellfish Sea-Fisheries Conservation | Sea Fisheries Protection Authority
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Ireland Spearing 2013
- Thread starter bobdonny
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Bit vague and doesn't specify shellfish Sea-Fisheries Conservation | Sea Fisheries Protection Authority
I dunno guys, I’d be reluctant for the spearing body to get involved for a couple of reasons...
1) We do not have members, so who are we representing? For what its worth we are a advisory body and we can give advise to the balifs, government etc., but I would not be acting in the interests of third parties. Maybe we should do membership, but thats another matter.
2) Feargus suggests it was large haul? Can you confirm how large? For example, I do scallops for my family for Christmas dinner. There are maybe about 12 people and they all get 2 scallops each cut in half. Was it approx 24 or 240 etc. We’ve seen video’s here of people cleaning out spots and we’ve even seen it locally in our own spots to the point that Johnny and myself found 1 new spot last year after a few years looking! This example is the very reason we keep spots quiet. If I was a balif and saw this guy getting out with a massive haul I could only imagine all the other times he got harvested scallops from there and other places and was uncaught. Likewise the excuse of a family gathering is not important... the scallops don’t care, and scallops will spawn next month so thats several million scallop eggs that wont fertilise that area... So somebody in the near future will go home empty cos this guy clean it out.... for his family?????????
3) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there are areas that are legally controlled by balif’s and harvesting scallops by any means (even freediving) is illegal. This has to do with fishing rights and if an individual wants to risk all their gear by essentially poaching then I’m not sure how a spearing body can represent them. There is clearly defined areas and they have been discussed here several times and are freely available here Aquaculture Ireland IMHO ignorance of laws or unethical actions are not what I wanted to protect when I got involved with a national body. Put another way, if a lad was caught with 7 bass, should he be let off cos he didn’t know the laws, or chose to ignore them. Should it even matter that he was feeding a family or ended up buying fish!!!
Bottom line and the only thing we need to discuss. Where was it and therefore is it illegal? If it is illegal we should do the opposite to the suggestions here and come down firmly on them and stick to the side of the law.
(Cue judge dredd soundtrack... I AM THE LAW!)
1) We do not have members, so who are we representing? For what its worth we are a advisory body and we can give advise to the balifs, government etc., but I would not be acting in the interests of third parties. Maybe we should do membership, but thats another matter.
2) Feargus suggests it was large haul? Can you confirm how large? For example, I do scallops for my family for Christmas dinner. There are maybe about 12 people and they all get 2 scallops each cut in half. Was it approx 24 or 240 etc. We’ve seen video’s here of people cleaning out spots and we’ve even seen it locally in our own spots to the point that Johnny and myself found 1 new spot last year after a few years looking! This example is the very reason we keep spots quiet. If I was a balif and saw this guy getting out with a massive haul I could only imagine all the other times he got harvested scallops from there and other places and was uncaught. Likewise the excuse of a family gathering is not important... the scallops don’t care, and scallops will spawn next month so thats several million scallop eggs that wont fertilise that area... So somebody in the near future will go home empty cos this guy clean it out.... for his family?????????
3) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there are areas that are legally controlled by balif’s and harvesting scallops by any means (even freediving) is illegal. This has to do with fishing rights and if an individual wants to risk all their gear by essentially poaching then I’m not sure how a spearing body can represent them. There is clearly defined areas and they have been discussed here several times and are freely available here Aquaculture Ireland IMHO ignorance of laws or unethical actions are not what I wanted to protect when I got involved with a national body. Put another way, if a lad was caught with 7 bass, should he be let off cos he didn’t know the laws, or chose to ignore them. Should it even matter that he was feeding a family or ended up buying fish!!!
Bottom line and the only thing we need to discuss. Where was it and therefore is it illegal? If it is illegal we should do the opposite to the suggestions here and come down firmly on them and stick to the side of the law.
(Cue judge dredd soundtrack... I AM THE LAW!)
I agree with what you said about quantity. But if there is no limit then the bailiffs had no reason to confiscate. For that reason I'd love to see a bag limit.
If they are going to go around confiscating gear for any amount then I'd like to see something done.
I want to know all the particulars before I pick up the phone. I'm waiting on that now.
If they are going to go around confiscating gear for any amount then I'd like to see something done.
I want to know all the particulars before I pick up the phone. I'm waiting on that now.
Spoke to the guy who had his gear taken by bailiffs a while ago. Spoke with sfpa, gardai, naval service and a few others. Nobody can give me a straight answer. All we have to go on is the bye law 533 of 1966. See a scanned copy below. It says "skin diving" but also mentions breathing apparatus.
Between two guys they took close to 200 scallops. He made no excuses for it and although I don't agree with it or condone it, he is well within his rights to do so as there isn't a bag limit. A bag limit is something I would like to see personally. It would certainly clear this grey area.
I would like to see this dated law get updated also as it is unclear and gives bailiffs the power to say that it's their interpretation of the law that freediving for scallops is illegal. The only problem perusing this is that we may end up having it worded differently to stop free divers taking scallops.
I think we do need to approach sfpa and work with them to update laws and include our sport so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.
Rob sent me this link also. It's important that people thinking of collecting shellfish in these areas do not do so as they are protected areas!!
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1952/en/si/0273.html
Between two guys they took close to 200 scallops. He made no excuses for it and although I don't agree with it or condone it, he is well within his rights to do so as there isn't a bag limit. A bag limit is something I would like to see personally. It would certainly clear this grey area.
I would like to see this dated law get updated also as it is unclear and gives bailiffs the power to say that it's their interpretation of the law that freediving for scallops is illegal. The only problem perusing this is that we may end up having it worded differently to stop free divers taking scallops.
I think we do need to approach sfpa and work with them to update laws and include our sport so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.
Rob sent me this link also. It's important that people thinking of collecting shellfish in these areas do not do so as they are protected areas!!
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1952/en/si/0273.html
We have discussed that here on these forums and it is black and white... if you have an apparatus that lets you breath under water... then what you are doing is illegal. If not, tell em to feck off!
Freediving for scallops in this regard is no different than harvesting them in 1m of water, or along the shoreline...
But the other issue is the area is mayo is protected scallop fishery (AFAIK) so that is a activity in contravention of a separate bylaw?
Freediving for scallops in this regard is no different than harvesting them in 1m of water, or along the shoreline...
But the other issue is the area is mayo is protected scallop fishery (AFAIK) so that is a activity in contravention of a separate bylaw?
It was Galway so no breach of law. I think he has grounds if it goes to court. The bailiffs said a judge would decide so if it goes to court then this will be an interesting case.
Wouldnt be so sure of that!
Last time it happened it was mentioned that the area was protected by a co-op of fishermen!
Wel if it was me I would have made sure I was in the right after the first time they confiscated my scallops. This is the second time in the same place so not sure. Plus I personally would be hesitant backing somebody who took so many. It's just the standards I keep personally. I visit my spot once a year and take a quarter what he took to keep it sustainable. I know for a fact that there are no restrictions in this area also.
Taking 200 scallops is way over the top, irregardless of why you took them. I know there is no catch limit but taking that number is hardly responsible, sustainable fishing. If someone had posted a picture of them laid out on the ground as before we'd all be up in arms about it.
I would be in favour of a bag limit to stop that kind of activity but as with many things here regarding spearfishing and freediving for food there is this wall where authorities seem to just blank on clarifying the laws. When pushed a decision could go against us especially if we try and defend something that could wipe out stocks in an area.
In my opinion there should be a bag limit as there is a law saying how not to dive but doesn't have a bag limit, but having said that common sense should be taking into account when taking scallops, there is no way that taking 200 scallops can be argued as sustainable fishing, common sense would give everyone a good idea of what a bag limit should be.
Just to clarify there were two guys diving.
I think an ideal situation would be to give two months of the year to free divers in which they can dive for scallops and have a daily bag limit. Like march and September. 20 per day limit within the two months. These figures are purely out of my head but something along those lines.
Anyway if it goes to court it will be interesting to see which way it goes. It could result in a blanket ban eventually which would be a disaster for us.
I think an ideal situation would be to give two months of the year to free divers in which they can dive for scallops and have a daily bag limit. Like march and September. 20 per day limit within the two months. These figures are purely out of my head but something along those lines.
Anyway if it goes to court it will be interesting to see which way it goes. It could result in a blanket ban eventually which would be a disaster for us.
"most Spearos follow a voluntary code of conservation and only take what they need for their own table".. "Taking more fish than you can consume even though it might be legal, is considered selfish and irresponsible, it will not earn you a credible reputation amongst the wider spearfishing community."....
taken from the spearfishing ireland website...
2 ways to look at this one lads, first if there was no laws broken surely the guys have a right to get all their gear back and should have the full support of the spearfishing body..
second is if they got greedy and raped that area for as much scallops as they could possibly get, they deserve everything coming to them, if not legally morally it was wrong...so spearfishing body should distance themselves from this case...
200 scallops is goin a bit too far in my opinion, family party or not.... if it was up to me i think the spearfishing body should use this case to contact the proper authorities and get rid of the grey areas, bag limit is a great idea, i think we all agree on that.... a detailed map of all no go areas maybe posted on the spearfishing website would be a great help to us all....i think it maybe time to start thinking about membership too, if we want somebody to fight our corner its only right we stick to the rules of that body morally and legally....personally id have no problem paying a small fee for support when needed, even membership access to marine maps etc...
As for the two lads, if they did get them scallops in an area where they were allowed i hope they get theyre gear back and are not so greedy next time out...
taken from the spearfishing ireland website...
2 ways to look at this one lads, first if there was no laws broken surely the guys have a right to get all their gear back and should have the full support of the spearfishing body..
second is if they got greedy and raped that area for as much scallops as they could possibly get, they deserve everything coming to them, if not legally morally it was wrong...so spearfishing body should distance themselves from this case...
200 scallops is goin a bit too far in my opinion, family party or not.... if it was up to me i think the spearfishing body should use this case to contact the proper authorities and get rid of the grey areas, bag limit is a great idea, i think we all agree on that.... a detailed map of all no go areas maybe posted on the spearfishing website would be a great help to us all....i think it maybe time to start thinking about membership too, if we want somebody to fight our corner its only right we stick to the rules of that body morally and legally....personally id have no problem paying a small fee for support when needed, even membership access to marine maps etc...
As for the two lads, if they did get them scallops in an area where they were allowed i hope they get theyre gear back and are not so greedy next time out...
I think the guys acted unethically with the 200 scallops, but I was thinking last night that figure is still barely unrecognisable in relation to the quantity that scallop dredgers take and the damage they do.
Can anyone tell me exactly where the incident took place as I am looking at several designated shellfish zones in Galway and I just want to be sure myself.
Maybe the spearfishing body should take them on... if even just to contact the media and get some coverage... how many people saw the fish fight program on dredging scallops.... diving for scallops should be a sustainable way to fish....
Can anyone tell me exactly where the incident took place as I am looking at several designated shellfish zones in Galway and I just want to be sure myself.
Maybe the spearfishing body should take them on... if even just to contact the media and get some coverage... how many people saw the fish fight program on dredging scallops.... diving for scallops should be a sustainable way to fish....
What I mean is make a case for the media that a spearo is being prosecuted yet dredgers are given licenses.... make it a case for public opinion as opposed to a legal or ethical case.