Karma, Can be a tool for the the cowards.......

[icarus pacific]

It's not the fact that the karma can be signed or comments added to it, Boss. That's what adds the legitimacy to the feature. Sign and comment if you want. It's when some chickenshit just uses the negative aspect to bugger with the other member(s) and get's to just sit out there in the e- ether. Though it does give one cause to endorse a Serenity Prayer, it get's a bit much for some of the thinner skinned types here.

I'm fine with the negative karma being available for legitimate use as in some instances mentioned here and as I've made mention, I sign and comment mine both pro and con so there's no misunderstanding as to who it's from and why and it's done others similar duty when I can see the who's and why's on my CP. Pressing the socks for DEMA ?

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Sven - agreed. However almost every feature can be misused by a small minority. One thing to note though is that almost everyone progresses forward with higher and higher positive Karma, a few small fry sniping from the edges shouldn't cause too much of a problem.

An interesting point that I notice is that very few people give me positive or negative Karma. I don't know whether it's because i'm the Boss or whether I just don't post enough but I do find it amusing.

As far DEMA - it's just over 2 weeks away and the DB crew who are going are getting very excited! It's going to be an awesome show for FreeDiving as well as DB! Hopefully we'll get to see a lot of DB members around the show.

 

[donmoore]

I agree that mandatory signing would be an improvement. But I don’t believe negative karma is the way to have “no misunderstandings”. If we really want no misunderstandings why would we want to communicate in 20 some characters? A better approach would be to PM the person first and let him or her respond? Maybe what we thought we read, and what they thought they typed, are two different things.

Maybe the person would value how we read it, thank us for bringing it to their attention, and go and edit their post. Wouldn’t that be better than creating an enemy? People will act like the labels you give them. You tell them they are an enemy and they will usually act like one.

Taking away the ability to give negative karma anonymously would be an improvement, because anonymous negative karma is like solders in Iraq taking sniper fire from unknown locations. They have an urge to shoot back in all directions.

Just my 2 cents,
don

PS I have a real problem with the term “negative karma”. It’s such an Oxymoron.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally posted by donmoore
Maybe the person would value how we read it, thank us for bringing it to their attention, and go and edit their post. Wouldn’t that be better than creating an enemy? People will act like the labels you give them. You tell them they are an enemy and they will usually act like one.

Now you'd hope so wouldn't you - however the small minority I refered to earlier are just as likely to start a private or public flaming than take the comments as constructive.

I've seen it too many times. We've generally managed to avoid it by having a strong Mentor backup to keep conversations on track.

Taking away the ability to give negative karma anonymously would be an improvement, because anonymous negative karma is like solders in Iraq taking sniper fire from unknown locations. They have an urge to shoot back in all directions.

It would solve these discussions - however I personally believe what is the point in being able to reward someone for a good post if you can't also tell people you don't agree. Karma on the forums isn't designed as a replacement to normal, adult discussion - it's there to provide a way of giving a quick "reaction" to a post.

 

[Murat]

Originally posted by Cingene
I live in the backwoods of California (Oakley) and I prayed and prayed, for an answer to my biggus quesshun of them all...What in tarnashun is a karma...lo and behold an answer :duh

I never really paid much attention to the karma thing. But what the heck...can someone give me some please...i feel lonely having only one:waterwork. Please

:hmm

rofl rofl rofl

Ok... Ok... Here you go but don't expect to much affect. Hehehe...
Or should you ? ? ?

 

[Murat]

Oppss.... Sorry...I missed the target, your carma gone someone else:head :duh Too much confused between posts & threads...

But don't worry Cingene i will give you another when the forum let me give....

 

[Stephan Whelan]

One thing I thought about in a PM discussion was this:

Does it really take that much longer to click on "Post Reply", or even "PM" or "Email" to send a public or private message to an individual? Would it make a big difference to negative feeling between individuals?

Is the issue here that we feel angry that people disagree with us, or the fact we don't know who that person is? What would happen if you knew who the other person was - would you want to respond to them, even if you know it might inflame the situation to a point of "flaming"?

I'm playing devil's advocate here and posing questions for people to think about...

...so don't hit the negative karma button too quickly

 

[Jon]

I don't have a problem if someone wants to do a "hit and run" on my karma and not sign their name.

I do have a slight problem when someone can threaten you in your karma box and not leave a name.

Many people might think that phrases such as " I want to taste your flesh in my mouth" and "I will cut your face with a razor" as some sort of juvenile prank. I might normally consider this too, except that I hail from Jeffery Dahlmer's home town and may always have some lingering doubts about them as a result.

Maybe the karma box should just be good or bad and that way there would be no way for anyone to sign who sent it. Also would eliminate any unsigned threats on the system.

If someone still want to trheaten you they can do it by PM and at least you can see if they live on the same continent as you.:hmm

jon

 

[icarus pacific]

Hey look at Stephan being the thinking guy! :inlove

 

[OceanSwimmer]

Originally posted by Stephan Whelan
Now you'd hope so wouldn't you - however the small minority I refered to earlier are just as likely to start a private or public flaming than take the comments as constructive.

True, but then again, if 'signing' karma, was mandatory, it might encourage a more articulate response than,"F*&% off and stop posting on all the threads!" --->the very 'minority' you refer to would need to take responsibility for this kind of stuff. [and ya, it's exactly the way neg karma has been posted. Go figure.]

I've seen it too many times. We've generally managed to avoid it by having a strong Mentor backup to keep conversations on track.
Indeed, I need to compliment the Mentors for keeping the dialogue even tempered. Seen a few pulled that got a bit 'hot tempered' which is the best choice for a mud-slinging contest. Good goin'!

It would solve these discussions - however I personally believe what is the point in being able to reward someone for a good post if you can't also tell people you don't agree. Karma on the forums isn't designed as a replacement to normal, adult discussion - it's there to provide a way of giving a quick "reaction" to a post.

---Isn't this exactly where 'karma points' become a means of taking a shot at someone without constructive reasons why? Giving a quick 'reaction' to a post is where all the confusion starts --- just my opinion. Do you mean karma is essentially an agreement vote? Why leave space for comments w/the karma?
---Perhaps I'm the confused one here....

 

[unirdna]

Like Sven said, I can pretty much determine who lobbed me the bad stuff by the flow of discussion and how many damage points I received. I know going into some of the more risque discussions that some of the thin-skins are going to take exception to my well-thought and fair opinion . But the truth is that those who know me well are usually the ones who have been on the forum for a while....and thus, those are the people with hand. So if a few newbie soft-shells want to mob me because they misinterpreted my jaunty comment, all I need is for one of the veterans to get the joke, and I come out on top.

I firmly believe that few of us actually post with the intention of pissing others off...and those of us who know each other, know this to be true. So most of the unsigned neg karma we get is usually from [A] newbies*, who simply haven't gotten to know the idiosyncracies of the members yet all-around cantankerous bungholes looking for a fight, or [C] gutless turds taking a free shot. Since it takes karma to give karma, none of these three usually have much karmic potency. So their pot shots don't bug me much....not because I don't care that I've somehow upset them (although I usually don't), but because they didn't make any effort at reaching an understanding before they pulled the trigger. That said, if I do get signed, neg karma from established members, then I KNOW it is probably time to tone it down a bit, and maybe send out an apology.

*Not trying to be a snob to the new folks here (as I have only been on the forum for a year, myself). However, when I was the new guy, and found myself taking exception to a post here and there, I would run a search on the author and read his/her other posts to get a feel for the kind of person he/she is (before I went firing off at the mouth).

In conclusion: I am happy with the current karma system .

Ted

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally posted by icarus pacific
Hey look at Stephan being the thinking guy! :inlove

I know - crazy isn't it.

Next i'll start looking to actually run a website or something...

...hold on a minute

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally posted by OceanSwimmer
True, but then again, if 'signing' karma, was mandatory, it might encourage a more articulate response than,"F*&% off and stop posting on all the threads!" --->the very 'minority' you refer to would need to take responsibility for this kind of stuff. [and ya, it's exactly the way neg karma has been posted. Go figure.]

There are two real ways to deal with this - either remove the ability to get comments totally, or make comments mandatory. I'm not sure that making comments mandatory will make people think any more about what they write though...i've seen people react rashly too many times

Indeed, I need to compliment the Mentors for keeping the dialogue even tempered. Seen a few pulled that got a bit 'hot tempered' which is the best choice for a mud-slinging contest. Good goin'!

Yup! A great team there!

---Isn't this exactly where 'karma points' become a means of taking a shot at someone without constructive reasons why? Giving a quick 'reaction' to a post is where all the confusion starts --- just my opinion. Do you mean karma is essentially an agreement vote? Why leave space for comments w/the karma?
---Perhaps I'm the confused one here....

Quick reactions happen with or without Karma IMHO. Look at other message forums and you'll see how tempers flare up all the time due to public "quick reactions". I've been guilty of not reading a message properly, posting a quick terse reply and nearly kicking off a flame war...and this was on both private email as well as public forums.

My personaly opinion is that unsigned Karma is the best route to go as it allows people to see reactions to posts from a wide range of people (from little "pea-shooter" low Karma people to "Sven-like" Karma Titans). However this is everyone's community so if everyone decides they don't want it i'll get it removed.

Cheers!

 

[icarus pacific]

like a calming water-based lube on the angry and confused currents...

Originally posted by unirdna
all I need is one of the veterans, and I come out on top.
I firm. I happy.
Ted

Uh..... I'm very happy for you Tedski. :mute


Hey is anybody else reading here that we don't pay attention to the negative karma :hmm , that we like to know who the karma, good or bad is from :ko and are fine with the ability to let a Mentor know when it gets ugly :ban ? So what's different than now? Or is it my Titan-tude?

I suggest a a vigorous session with a Ted followed by a dive. Or vice versa. Or not.

 

[donmoore]

As much as I like dislike negative unsigned karma, I think my complaint pales in comparison to Jon’s. Especially if you remember the thread in which he first mention the negative karma insults. Threats like that is a serious thing. If that had happened to me, I would be furious. Actually I suspect the person had already given me negative karma and couldn’t do it again until he spread it around, but he apparently has digressed to be really disgusting.

I believe if this continues eventually the board will have no pictures, no stories, no new ideas, and no interesting thoughts.

Even though I have never received a karma threat yet, I would consider it an improvement with any solution that stopped the ability of a person to send anonymous threats.
don

 

[Stephan Whelan]

I realised I hadn't addressed the Threat point.

We take ANY threat issued via the forums extremely seriously. It is enough for an instant ban for breach of forum rules. Whether it is via Karma, PM, Email Link or Public Post - if you threaten someone else you will be dealt with swiftly by either a mentor or an admin.

 

[donmoore]

threats via karma

Stephan,
Can you determine who threaten anyone via karma?
don

PS I will PM you with some details.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Everything that happens on the forums (karma, PM, email links, postings, etc...) is stored in a database and can be tracked if necessary. In Jon's example we found out who it was and we dealt with the member in question.

 

[donmoore]

cool!

 

[efattah]

Well then, it appears karma isn't REALLY anonymous! That's good to hear. You can track people down if the need arises.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada