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Long term review of Apnea ST60, Apnea Amarok Roller 95 and Apnea New Gen Reel

hteas

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Mar 9, 2005
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Sorry, must have hit a hidden send. The spear on my RA 60cm Scorpio is only 90cm long. I checked with Rob, and he said that the short guns don't have the extreme harmonic in the shaft when fired.
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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Sorry, must have hit a hidden send. The spear on my RA 60cm Scorpio is only 90cm long. I checked with Rob, and he said that the short guns don't have the extreme harmonic in the shaft when fired.
So no need for a rail? I think the rail-less Scorpia would make sense for most UK spearing. I had a railed Sparid capable of taking double bands but spearing here really didn't benefit from the bulk and mass of all that wonderful heavy duty hardware. It has taken me years to appreciate the obviousness of that simple fact.

BTW We used to visit Deception Pass, north of Seattle. My son was still a toddler then, seems like only yesterday, but he has a master's degree now. It was often uncrowded but one day the entire north corner of the beach was coming completely lined with people - apparently the steelhead were running.

Was surprised to discover salmon came up the river at the bottom of hill we lived on. Less than a mile from home. Washington state is an amazing place.
 
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hteas

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Mar 9, 2005
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The Scorpia is a great little gun. Rob believes any gun less <90ccm doesn't need a rail. I think because it's short enough it doesn't develop harmonics that ruin accuracy (and really make a gun noisy)
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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The Scorpia is a great little gun. Rob believes any gun less <90ccm doesn't need a rail. I think because it's short enough it doesn't develop harmonics that ruin accuracy (and really make a gun noisy)
I normally recommend 70cm -90cm spearguns for most UK conditions and scorpia would be a good choice. Being slimmer and lighter than the Sparid, it would suit most UK conditions better I think - faster tracking. I think there is a 2x14mm version in Oz, an interesting option but for UK I reckon 1x16mm with a single spearline wrap would work better, offering faster loading. I'm picturing shoals of fast moving grey mullet swimming by at speed in my mind's eye! :D
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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I decided to inspect and tweak my spearguns today. The 90cm Omer XXV needed nothing, so I just sprayed the 16mm bulk rubber and bungee with some silicone again. I did this for all 4 spearguns.

I was going to try shortening the old 3/4"=19mm bulk rubber on my 75cm Omer XXV, again, but, after cutting about 15mm of the perished rubber off each end, I noticed the middle section was also deeper perished/cracked, so replaced the band instead. The rubber was very old and felt uncharacteristically dull and under powered last time I used it, no surprise, it was overdue. I have spare 14, 16 and 19mm bulk rubber in the freezer and opted for 16mm rubber this time.

The Apnea ST-60: It's bands are in the freezer. I previously rigged it with a double-wrap of spearline, which in hindsight may be a mistake but I think I will try it like this. Afterall the barrel and therefore the spearline would be quite short otherwise - and it has double bands. I see US spearo Cameron Kirkconnell thinks double wraps are excessive and uses 1.5 wraps instead.

On close inspection I was shocked by the state of the muzzle bungee on my new, unused Apnea Amarok 95 roller Speargun (see images below) and when I inspected the rubbers, they too are perished (I previously thought the ends had been ground but grinding inside the constructor knots would not make sense, it would weaken the rubbers). Disappointing :(
PHOTO_20200426_162333.jpg

PHOTO_20200426_162333.jpg

PHOTO_20200426_163115.jpg

PHOTO_20200426_163205.jpg
 
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foxfish

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Really annoying when you spot something like that but I have also found those bungees suffer quite badly quite quickly.
It seems sunlight speeds up the deterioration but even in the dark they dont last very well.
It is so annoying when you spot cracked bands especially if you are in the water!
 
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Andrew the fish

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Oct 17, 2010
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Burnaby BC Canada
Rob believes any gun less <90ccm doesn't need a rail. I think because it's short enough it doesn't develop harmonics that ruin accuracy
OMG for crying out loud, this has nothing to do with harmonics. I would never buy rail-less gun of any length. Railless guns have no right to exist. They should be trashed and the trash bin burned and remains buried deep. And designers and makers of such guns need to have a good slap to their head with rolled newspaper. Wow, I came hard at it, didn't I? I feel like I had to. Rail-less guns are still being manufactured, while people with smart face mumbling somethign about harmonics. Harmonics, wow, sounds soo cool, so scinetific. Must be true.
 

DivingNomad

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Sep 21, 2015
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Rob believes any gun less <90ccm doesn't need a rail. I think because it's short enough it doesn't develop harmonics that ruin accuracy (and really make a gun noisy)


OMG for crying out loud, this has nothing to do with harmonics. I would never buy rail-less gun of any length. Railless guns have no right to exist. They should be trashed and the trash bin burned and remains buried deep. And designers and makers of such guns need to have a good slap to their head with rolled newspaper. Wow, I came hard at it, didn't I? I feel like I had to. Rail-less guns are still being manufactured, while people with smart face mumbling somethign about harmonics. Harmonics, wow, sounds soo cool, so scinetific. Must be true.

Stop crying, you can get this part and have your rail on your rail-less gun, it works beautifully :)


 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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It may well have been a store gun or perhaps just in stock for sometime - a 95cm roller would likely not be the choice of most UK spearos (the 75 or 85 would be) and they also offer the cheaper Whaler roller. I'm disappointed but not overly upset, the 30% discount eased my pain, it allowed me to buy the higher spec. Model I really wanted. Can't wait to try it, the rubbers - which have not been out in the sun since I've had the spearguns (they are stored in a cool, dark garage) - will hopefully be ok for a season or two(?).

Better news on the ST re. ...
...
Looking at the smaller Apnea ST-60 I noticed that the spear appears to be at least 1cm too short. I guess this Speargun is intended for confined spaces and poor viz so I can understand them foregoing the normal 40cm overhang but I think they went a little too far. The spear line, where it crosses over the spear to secure it to the open muzzle lifts the barb! I tried re-routing this muzzle loop of spearline, which helped reduce the amount of lift but did not entirely eliminate it.
View attachment 55805
I found that placing the spearline under the line tabs on the barrel, near the trigger mech (most reverse trigger spearguns seem to have these) shifts the line back a smidge, just enough to fully clear the barb :). I planned to use the side tabs but don't use them during storage, to reduce pull on bungee & spearline.

There are quite a few different ways to run the spearline at the muzzle. I use the hook on the opposite side to the line release, as normal. But once the line has crossed the spear, I now take it down the central groove of the muzzle (like the RA roller guns), rather than using either of the 2 metal hooks on the right side. I use the outside hook for the second wrap.
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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Talking of rails, both of these Apnea Spearguns have a rail. The Amorak only has a rail on the front half of the barrel, perhaps something to do with the reverse trigger mech or the PU shaped barrel cover? I notice that the spear does not sit on the entire rail but eases into it. That might well be intentional but it caught my eye. I don't think it's a problem. My similar length Omer XXV 90 cm has no rail at all (unlike the Gold version) and works just fine, less side drag and mass too (I could have bought the Gold model but had previously bought the 75cm version sans rail and was delighted with it).

Above 90/100cm, I would look for a rail as RA suggests, or a spear-support (some euroguns used to have a mid- barrel spear support, sometimes moveable). Rails are far more common now than they used to be, esp. on euroguns. Dyneema wishbones too.
 
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foxfish

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You normally take a holiday in Devon, do you think that will happen this year?
I think you can go spearfishing in England within the lockdown laws?
Looking forward to the sea trials ......
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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You normally take a holiday in Devon, do you think that will happen this year?
I think you can go spearfishing in England within the lockdown laws?
Looking forward to the sea trials ......
Good question. Yes, it occurs to me that I could now probably drive to Dorset and spearfish, within current UK government, diving and fishing organisation guidance :) . I have time now too. But I cannot in good conscience do it. Not yet. :( Several family members have serious health issues or are just old and so more at risk from covid-19.

A few favourite locations are still closed, other than to locals on foot, with parking closed. At least one in Devon has re-opened with reduced facilities, too far for a day trip though.

The weather has been incredibly good. Perhaps next month, June, as I found out today that my employer requires me to take some vacation time then(!). We'll see.

Will we go away on holiday this year? Too early to say. I hope so but not counting on it. How about yourself, going away? Do you follow UK guidance or do you have your own? Are you spearing?
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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Looking at roller muzzles, I see that some european makers now provide very low profile, unobtrusive moulded plastic muzzles that surround the rollers.

This seems like it could be a better long term solution than the stamped/cut metal plates used on many current roller muzzles, inc. mine, which look destined to become tangle traps for spear, reel and flat lines.
 
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Mr. X

Mr. X

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I've noticed 2 or 3. One was so compact it was hard to tell it was a roller, it looked likes twin band gun (it had a second "kicker" rubber too). I don't recall what the latter was but will keep my eye out for it. Perhaps one of the Pathos models, perhaps the Sniper? :



I think another one of them was a Salvimar:

Pathos again:


More on that here: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/improvements-for-pathos-sniper-roller-95.110693/
 
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Kodama

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Jun 20, 2016
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OMG for crying out loud, this has nothing to do with harmonics. I would never buy rail-less gun of any length. Railless guns have no right to exist. They should be trashed and the trash bin burned and remains buried deep. And designers and makers of such guns need to have a good slap to their head with rolled newspaper. Wow, I came hard at it, didn't I? I feel like I had to. Rail-less guns are still being manufactured, while people with smart face mumbling somethign about harmonics. Harmonics, wow, sounds soo cool, so scinetific. Must be true.
C4 has produced rail-less guns that are high precision spearguns. I speak out of experience when I say that they are some of the most efficient spearguns I have shot. More specifically I am referring to the Mr.Iron and Monoscocca.
When the bands are in line with the spear and it is released very stable it wil fly straight.

Another example I am familiar with is the seatec snake. Extremely accurate and fast shooting with only a track in the front part of the barrel.

I can understand that these guns may not be appealing to some for a myriad of reasons but those are all personal preference. I have tested other guns where the spear only touch the ‘rail’ on two places and they are equally accurate and effective. I am just as opinionated as you are but would happily prove you wrong too.
 
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